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Featured The Jews to be kept safe during the Great Tribulation

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Billy Evmur, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's not there..
     
  2. Billy Evmur

    Billy Evmur Brother Supporter

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    'fraid it is we see that Satan is bound for the 1,000 years and after the 1,000 years is loosed to deceive the nations once more...that won't happen in heaven will it.
     
  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is the binding of Satan, not the kingdom. He attacks the kingdom (still here) when the 1000 years end.
     
  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Dispensationalism preaches the national salvation of all of Israel's Jews in Zechariah 12.

    Since all of the Jews of all time in Zechariah 12 are unregenerate, how can there be any who are righteous?
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Billy, I want to clarify that I agree with you that the beast is not the dragon (Satan). I went back and edited my post, as my wording could have given the wrong impression.

    Satan empowers the beast in Revelation 13:4. But Satan is not the beast, nor possesses the beast. (Satan, after being cast down, will incarnate the image of the beast, the statue, and make it appear to come to life - but that is another topic.)

    Being the Antichrist is a role - and is only when the person is the King of Israel, illegitimate of course. "Christ" is the equivalent of messiah - John 4:25.

    "The" Christ in the bible, called "the messiah" by Jews, was to be the King of Israel descended from David. To lead the Jews and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety. That is the role of the messiah. In Christianity, we know the messiah to also be the savior from our sins.

    Jesus was to be that King, but was rejected by his own people.

    That Jesus was to be the King of Israel; and Christ as being the King of Israel - take a look at John 12:12-13. And Mark 15:32. KJV.

    " Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord."
    "Christ the King of Israel"

    So when we attach "Anti" in front of "Christ" - it has to do with being in the role of being the King of Israel.
    __________________________________________________________________

    Differently, being the little horn and the beast is not being in the role of being the King of Israel - but instead as being the King of the Roman empire in the end times. So it is actually incorrect to call the person the Antichrist for that role.

    The little horn will be the 7th Julio Claudian King of the Roman Empire.
    Then later as the beast, he will be the 8th Julio Claudian King of the Roman Empire.

    From Revelation 17:10 -

    1. Julius Caesar
    2. Augustus Caesar
    3. Tiberius
    4. Caligula
    5. Claudius
    6. Nero - last of the historic Julio Claudians

    7. the little horn, end times, leader of the EU, prior to the 7 years
    8. the beast (same person), continues the last 42 months, leader of the EU

    Billy, it is not said by the prophecy commentators the distinction between being the Antichrist and not being the Antichrist - so the error is perpetuated. If you contemplate that the person will be on two tracks - one of becoming the King of Israel (illegitimate), the Antichrist. And differently, the other of becoming the King of the Roman Empire. Your eschatology will make a quantum leap - because that is the way the prophecies are laid out - but no-one makes mention of it.

    In the Tanach (old testament to Christians), we read about the person in the role of being the King of the Roman Empire. Which Jews (Judaism) who are countermissionaries will argue there is no Antichrist mentioned in their bible - which is basically correct, because the person in their bible is in the role of being the King of the Roman Empire, the fourth empire of Daniel 2 and 7.

    And in Revelation, except for being the rider on the white horse given a crown, anointed the King of Israel, the person is mostly in the role of being the King of the Roman empire - and not in the role of being the King of Israel illegitimate - the Antichrist.

    So Antichrist is when the person is temporarily the King of Israel. And being the little horn and later the beast is when the person is being the King of the Roman Empire.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    That is to each individual Jew that comes to Christ.........which any of them can now do........the apostate ones however continue to blaspheme our Lord and Christ and one reason they suffered the loss of their City and Temple in 70 ad

    John 10:33
    The Judeans answered Him saying,
    "About a good work not we are stoning Thee, but about blasphemy,
    and that Thou, being a man, are making thyself a god".
    [Romans 2:23/Reve 16:11,21]
    Romans 2:
    23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
    24 'For the name of the God, because of ye, is being blasphemed in the nations' according as it has been written.'
    [Psalm 74:10]
    Revelation 16:11 And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them, and not they reform out of the works of them


    .
     
  7. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your basic sentiment, but THE WOMAN of Revelation means Israel, not the Church.

    Still confused as per the scriptures I see. God SAVES the 1/3 of the Jews who call upon his name just like he SAVES all men who call upon his name. Men who reject God choose their own fate, be it Jews or Gentiles !!

    And Christians are not Jews, only Jews are Jews, Jesus will rule for 1000 years from Jerusalem with the Jews whilst the Bride is in Heaven readying the New Jerusalem. The Christians who became Christians after the Rapture will rule on earth with Jesus for the 1000 year reign. Christians don't live in the Holy Land.

    Israel REPENTS before the Zechariah 14 invasion by the Little Horn/Anti-Christ. Look at Zechariah 12:10 and 13:1. In Zech. 14:1-2 we see the Anti-Christs invasion of Jerusalem where he becomes THE BEAST, then in Zech. 14:3-4 we see Jesus defeating the BEAST and his Armies upon his return/landing on Mt. Zion. (Armageddon).

    You are correct, he punishment was the 2000 some odd year diaspora where God turned His back on Israel and saw them as Dead Men's Bones !! During the end times all Jews who repent and heed Jesus' words to Flee Judea will be saved, the 2/3 who do not heed his words will perish.
     
  8. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Good grief, we actually have 4 people that agree with this ? This is scary that people are this off via doctrine.
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    In Revelation 17:10, the person will be the 7th (Julio-Claudian) king of the Roman Empire.
    Which will be as the little horn person in Daniel 7 and 8.

    It says when he comes, he must continue a short space. The short space is the 42 months of Revelation 13 which he is in the role of being the beast.

    Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (the 42 months).

    Remember being the Antichrist is only for a little over 3 years in between being the little horn and then later the beast.

    Antichrist - King of Israel (illegitimate)
    little horn, beast - King of the Roman Empire
     
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  10. ICONO'CLAST

    ICONO'CLAST Well-Known Member

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    Would you consider it to be more biblical to examine how the same language used in the OT is used again in the nt. For change of government , rather than speculate about satellite s. See isa13, isa34
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The Church is made up of those individuals who have placed their faith in Christ.

    You are quoting from Zechariah 12:10.



    Zec 12:10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.


    Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
    Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
    Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
    Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."

    John quoted part of that verse being fulfilled at Calvary.

    The rest of it was fulfilled a few weeks later on the Day of Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out, and many who called for Him to be crucified mourned by being "pricked in the heart".

    Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.

    Act 2:15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.
    Act 2:16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
    Act 2:17 'AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, SAYS GOD, THAT I WILL POUR OUT OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL FLESH; YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS.



    Act 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

    Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
    Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    Act 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
    Act 2:40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."
    Act 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.



    If you think the whole nation will be saved at His Second Coming, you have cut Matthew 25:1-13, and Matthew 25:31-46, and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 out of your Bible.

    .
     
  12. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    The ALL ISRAEL confuses some people, because we all know every Jew will not be saved. Paul was quoting Isaiah, and it means Israel as a nation will be saved, thus preserving the seed of Abraham forever just as God promised him. Thus ALL ISRAEL is saved, as a Nation, but of course only 1/3 of the Jews of the end time come through the fire as Zech. ch. 13 tells us. So Israel as a Nation is saved, but not ALL Jews, if that makes sense.
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ.


    Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
    Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    I am Abraham's seed and heir to the promise, through Christ, who is the one seed to whom the promise was made.


    The "holy nation" which will be saved is found below.

    1Pe 2:4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,
    1Pe 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
    1Pe 2:6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHIEF CORNERSTONE, ELECT, PRECIOUS, AND HE WHO BELIEVES ON HIM WILL BY NO MEANS BE PUT TO SHAME."
    1Pe 2:7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE,"
    1Pe 2:8 and "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
    1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
    1Pe 2:10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

    Christ is Israel, as revealed in Matthew 1:1, and confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16.

    .
     
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  14. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Paul isn't wrong, but they use Rom. 9:6-8 without context and understanding. It is true that not every Jew goes to heaven, we know this because Judas went to hell and Jesus told the Pharisees they were of their father the devil. What it points to using CONTEXT is that only those of FAITH can be of Abraham in a spiritual context.

    Abraham believed God so it was accounted unto him as righteousness. So in a spiritual context only those of Faith are of Abraham. So in truth those that refuse to believe, Jew or Gentile will go to hell for rejecting Christ, but chapter 11 is about the physical Israel where only those Jews that BELIEVE are called ALL Israel. It's not about the Church which is by that time the Bride in Heaven having married Jesus Christ, via the pre-trib Rapture. Chapter 11 is about the 1/3 of all Jews who go through the fire and thus are grafted back into the "Olive Tree" which was originally their olive tree.

    Zech. 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

    9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

    Thus ALL ISRAEL or Israel as a Nation is preserved. But not every Jew is saved, the above tells us that 2/3 of the Jews will be CUT OFF and will die. Just like all Gentiles who refuse to accept Christ Jesus as their Messiah will perish.

    Read my answer above.....no Jew who did not accept Christ throughout ALL TIME will make Heaven, just like no Gentile who did not accept Christ will make Heaven. The only way to Heaven is by the blood of Jesus.............ALL ISRAEL is speaking about the Nation of Israel be preserved as a nation, not every Jew.

    Not really, the ORIGINAL COVENANT is what we are now under. The LAW of Moses came 430 years after the PROMISE of Christ to Abraham. The PROMISE was the first Covenant, Jesus just fulfilled the promise. The Law came later !!
     
  15. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Versus historic fantasy.
     
  16. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Wow. And here all this time I have believed Daniel when he said that the 70th week was for HIS people.
     
  17. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Good points!
     
  18. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    And Thank God one day it WILL BE!
     
  19. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Well, Jesus came. Jesus died. Jesus rose again. Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. Then, as head of the church, as advanced the gospel to the ends of the earth. This is what God has already done. Futurists believe all this. We also believe God was behind 70 AD. It certainly would not have happened unless he was OK with it.
     
  20. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    The STARS are Demons (fallen angels) being cast out of Heaven. Rev. 12 says Satan is cast down and has great wrath because his time is short. In the book of Job the Angels are called "Morning Stars". In Revelation a Star fall to earth and has the key to the bottomless pot, that is an Angel also.

    That's actually when the "TROUBLES of Jacob" begins. Dan. 12:1 happens when Satan is cast to earth and chases the Jews who repented into the Wilderness, where Michael protects them. The troubles last for 42 months, of course, that is why the Woman (Israel) of Rev. 12 is protected for 42 months. God's Wrath lasts for the same 42 months, it starts with the First Seal being broken/opened. And the Holy Spirit does destroy the Beast and his minions when Jesus gives the order from his mouth.
    It is obvious there has to be a pre tribulation Rapture, I will not venture to deep into that and throw off the subjected content of this thread, but the pre-trib Rapture is obvious to all but 10-15 percent of Christians, Paul spoke of it via the "Harpozo". I have never read Darby, and don't care to, but if he stated 2 Thess 2:3 mean "Departure" then he was 100 percent correct, the first 7 English translations had Departure and the Latin Vulgate used Dicsseo which meant Departure for 1000 years before the English versions used Departure, not until the KJV came along in 1611 did they use "falling away" and that seemed to be the Church of England taking a pot shot at the RCC, as if they were falling away from the faith, go figure. Its obvious what is being spoken of there, it's a gathering together unto Jesus BEFORE THAT DAY (DOTL) or God's Wrath can come upon them. The Man of Sin must also come BEFORE the DOTL. The Church will not be on earth at this time, Rev. 19 tells us that, if we listen.

    As per THAT Anti-Christ you are correct, it is referring to a specific MAN who is Ant-Christ. We of course refer to him a the Anti-Christ instead of having several names like the Man of Sin, Little Horn, Assyrian, Son of Perdition etc. etc. so as we can have ONE MONIKER instead of many. We could call him concrete as long as we know who we are speaking of and it wouldn't matter, so those that make a big deal out of this just befuddle me to be honest, it a nonsensical argument.
     
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