The Jews to be kept safe during the Great Tribulation

[jgr]

*
So it's time to answer this.

Matthew:24. is indeedee a compendium, yessir, a compendium of questions and a compendium of answers.
The diciples asled the Master 3 distinct and different questions and He answers them all...this is where the Preterist gets all mixed up.

The disciples had remarked upon the temple and it's grand structure to which the Lord had replied that it would be reduced to rubble.

They then came to Him privately and asked
"when shall these things be
and what shall be the sign of Thy coming
and of the end of the world.?"

The little apocalypse, or the Olivet discourse as Matt.24. is known sets out to answer each of these questions in turn. He deals with what happened in 70ad, what will be the sign of His coming [yet future] and concerning the end of the world [yet more distant future]

People confuse the sayings "end of the age" with the saying "end of the world"

When Jesus comes again it is not the end of the world, it is the end of this present age....there is yet an age to come. The Millennium age.

I concur with your understanding. Partial preterism and historicism do not get all mixed up. Full preterism, and full futurism (which futurizes the entire chapter), do.

 

[BABerean2]

The 7 years are in Revelation in the 1260 days and the 42 months and the 3 1/2 days and the time, times, half times.

You can claim the Book of Revelation is in chronological order, even though Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19, and then add together two descriptions of the same 3 1/2 year period of time, to get your 7 years.

You can ignore Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, in order to claim a future 70th week of Daniel, even though the angel Gabriel never mentioned a "gap" in the 490 year prophecy.

You can ignore the fact that Christ's ministry began with Him being baptized in the Jordan River.
(See Acts of the Apostles 10:38)

Then you can pretend the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel never even mentioned the New Covenant.

You can ignore the fact that Christ fulfilled the New Covenant during the first century as found in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18.

You can ignore the fact that the New Covenant is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24.

.

 

[Douggg]

You can claim the Book of Revelation is in chronological order, even though Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19, and then add together two descriptions of the same 3 1/2 year period of time, to get your 7 years.

I did not say the events were given in chronological order. A person has to place where the events go on the 7 year timeline to get the proper chronological order.

 

[Douggg]

You can ignore Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, in order to claim a future 70th week of Daniel, even though the angel Gabriel never mentioned a "gap" in the 490 year prophecy.

You can ignore the fact that Christ's ministry began with Him being baptized in the Jordan River.
(See Acts of the Apostles 10:38)

Then you can pretend the angel Gabriel came to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel never even mentioned the New Covenant.

You can ignore the fact that Christ fulfilled the New Covenant during the first century as found in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18.

You can ignore the fact that the New Covenant is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24.

You can ignore that Jesus returns to this earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords to end the 70th week - and believe Varner that it doesn't happen.

The 70th week begins 7 years before then in Revelation 6 with the rider on the white horse given a crown. The prince who shall come crowned the King of Israel (illegitimate) messiah - making him the Antichrist.

 

[BABerean2]

You can ignore that Jesus returns to this earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords to end the 70th week - and believe Varner that it doesn't happen.

The 70th week begins 7 years before then in Revelation 6 with the rider on the white horse given a crown. The prince who shall come crowned the King of Israel (illegitimate) messiah - making him the Antichrist.

Christ most certainly returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, to first gather His Church and to judge both the living and the dead as found in 2 Timothy 4:1, and Matthew 25:31-46, and John 5:27-30.

Dr. Kelly Varner never said the above does not happen.
However, he did expose Scofield's doctrine for what it really is.

He is not a New Covenant denier, unlike you.

.

 

[BABerean2]

I did not say the events were given in chronological order. A person has to place where the events go on the 7 year timeline to get the proper chronological order.

If "the time of the judgment of the dead" is in Revelation 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, there is no 7 year tribulation period.

.

 

[BABerean2]

And Paul's upshot is? So ALL Israel will be saved...say aren't you glad about that? why wouldn't you be glad about that?

Because I know that Paul did not change his mind between Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27, and Romans 11:26, when he said "not all Israel is Israel", and only a "remnant" will be saved.

The Greek word "houto", which is translated as the English word "so" in Romans 11:26, is an adverb of manner, instead of an adverb of timing.

They will be saved by being grafted back into the Olive Tree, through faith in Christ.

There is no Plan B of salvation outside of the Church.

All of the Jews have not been broken off of the Olive Tree.
I have had Jewish Christians in my home for Bible study.

.

 

[Douggg]

Christ most certainly returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, to first gather His Church and to judge both the living and the dead as found in 2 Timothy 4:1, and Matthew 25:31-46, and John 5:27-30.

Dr. Kelly Varner never said the above does not happen.
However, he did expose Scofield's doctrine for what it really is.

He is not a New Covenant denier, unlike you.

.

Varner denies the 70th week ends with Jesus's glorious return. He pins the 70th week ending with Stephen's death.

Has nothing to do with Scofield or any other commentator or denying the new covenant.

The 70th week ends with Jesus's glorious return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The 70th week begins 7 years before then.

 

[Douggg]

If "the time of the judgment of the dead" is in Revelation 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, there is no 7 year tribulation period.

.

The 70th week ends with Jesus's glorious return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The 70th week begins 7 years before then.

The events in Revelation chapters 6-19 have to be properly placed on the 7 year timeline.

Stop playing with labels and start working on where the events go on the 7 year timeline.

 

[BABerean2]

Stop playing with labels and start working on where the events go on the 7 year timeline.

Give me your timeline, and I will try to force the text to fit your doctrine.

Those "labels" are called "chapter" and "verse".

I noticed the "labels" are missing from much of your "story" found above...

.

 

[visionary]

Scientific Proof That God is Protecting Israel in Just 2 Minutes

 

[BABerean2]

Scientific Proof That God is Protecting Israel in Just 2 Minutes

The Day that Israel Attacked America:

June 8, 1967, during the 6 Day War

34 Americans were murdered and many more were wounded.

Below is Biblical proof of how God views those who reject His Son.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


.

 

[iamlamad]

Scientific Proof That God is Protecting Israel in Just 2 Minutes

The very fact that Israel IS today is proof!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Oh yes...God says so.
There are more than one references to the coming time of trouble in scripture but only once does it go by the term "the time of Jacob's trouble" This is to be found in the 30th chapter of Jeremiah...what does God say about the "time of Jacob's trouble" the great tribulation as it relates to Israel?
11 For I am with thee saith the Lord TO SAVE THEE, though I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have scattered thee yet will I not make a full end of you but I will correct thee in measure and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
.

Didn't Israel have a 7 year tribulation/time of trouble from 66 ad thru 73 ad?

Notice Jesus telling His Disciples about these events:

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end<5056> is not yet.
Mark 13:
7 “But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled;
for such things must happen, but the end<5056> is not yet.
Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified;
for these things must come to pass first, but the end<5056> is not immediate.”
20“and when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
=============================================
https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada:
August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight:
November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine:
December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat:
January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate:
May 10 - September 10, 70

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon thee,
and thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work<5482> to thee,
and shall be encompassing<4033> thee,
and pressing thee every which place.

9TH OF AV, A.D. 70 - CHURBAN HABAYIT
DATE OF THE DESTRUCTION OF BOTH TEMPLES OF SOLOMON AND HEROD
==================================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ;...............................

John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength.
At this critical and alarming c onjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance..........

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;..................

=================================================

Utube vids.... best viewed full screen............

..............................

..............................

Romans now use trumpets in part 3
The Sound Of The Trumpet
First-century historian Josephus wrote that the Roman army did nothing, except by trumpet signals.
He listed three specific trumpet sounds, all of which can be devotionally applied.
The third trumpet sound was the order to march: "Then do the trumpets give a sound a third time, that they are to go out."(1) Some have suggested that this is the equivalent of "the last trumpet" that Paul referred to in 1 Corinthians 15:52

..............................

.

 

[keras]

What is evident; is the fact that events of the first century simply do not fit in any way shape or form, what is prophesied for the forthcoming Great Tribulation; namely the Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls of Revelation.
The Roman slaughter of the Jews fulfilled the curse they brought upon themselves. Matthew 27:29
That disaster was the second swing of the sword against Judah. Ezekiel 21:14 The first was by Babylon and the third will be by the Lord Himself. Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Isaiah 22:14

 

[jgr]

The very fact that Israel IS today is proof!

Saudi Arabia IS today.
North Korea IS today.
China IS today.
A whole host of other Christ-rejecting nations IS today.

Proof that God is protecting them all.

 

[iamlamad]

Didn't Israel have a 7 year tribulation/time of trouble from 63ad thru 70ad?

Notice Jesus telling His Disciples about these events:

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end<5056> is not yet.
Mark 13:
7 “But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled;
for such things must happen, but the end<5056> is not yet.
Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified;
for these things must come to pass first, but the end<5056> is not immediate.”
20“and when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
=============================================
https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada:
August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight:
November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine:
December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat:
January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate:
May 10 - September 10, 70

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon thee,
and thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work<5482> to thee,
and shall be encompassing<4033> thee,
and pressing thee every which place.

9TH OF AV, A.D. 70 - CHURBAN HABAYIT
DATE OF THE DESTRUCTION OF BOTH TEMPLES OF SOLOMON AND HEROD
==================================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ;...............................

John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength.
At this critical and alarming c onjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance..........

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;..................

=================================================

Utube vids.... best viewed full screen............

..............................

..............................

Romans now use trumpets in part 3
The Sound Of The Trumpet
First-century historian Josephus wrote that the Roman army did nothing, except by trumpet signals.
He listed three specific trumpet sounds, all of which can be devotionally applied.
The third trumpet sound was the order to march: "Then do the trumpets give a sound a third time, that they are to go out."(1) Some have suggested that this is the equivalent of "the last trumpet" that Paul referred to in 1 Corinthians 15:52

..............................

.

What ever they had in 70 AD, it was certainly NOT any part of the future 70th week of Daniel.

 

[iamlamad]

Saudi Arabia IS today.
North Korea IS today.
China IS today.
A whole host of other Christ-rejecting nations IS today.

Proof that God is protecting them all.

None of those nations was as thoroughly destroyed as Israel was...and the people scattered to the 4 winds. What ever happened to the ancient Babylonian empire? It was overthrown by Medo-Persia. What ever happened to Medo-Persia? It was overthrown by Greece, and in turn, Greece was overthrown by Rome. No one conquered Rome....it just slowly disappeared.

So WHERE is Babylon today? It disappeared - never to be seen again. Where is Medo-Persia today? It disappeared, never to be seen again. Where is the great Grecian empire? Same story.

Israel, however, came back, after all those years, with the same language. Why? Because God made promises to them.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Didn't Israel have a 7 year tribulation/time of trouble from 63ad thru 70ad?

Notice Jesus telling His Disciples about these events:

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end<5056> is not yet.
Mark 13:
7 “But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be troubled;
for such things must happen, but the end<5056> is not yet.
Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified;
for these things must come to pass first, but the end<5056> is not immediate.”
20“and when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
=============================================
https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada:
August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight:
November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine:
December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat:
January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate:
May 10 - September 10, 70

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon thee,
and thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work<5482> to thee,
and shall be encompassing<4033> thee,
and pressing thee every which place.

9TH OF AV, A.D. 70 - CHURBAN HABAYIT
DATE OF THE DESTRUCTION OF BOTH TEMPLES OF SOLOMON AND HEROD
==================================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ;...............................

John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength.
At this critical and alarming c onjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance..........

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;..................

=================================================

Utube vids.... best viewed full screen............

..............................
..............................

Romans now use trumpets in part 3
The Sound Of The Trumpet
First-century historian Josephus wrote that the Roman army did nothing, except by trumpet signals.
He listed three specific trumpet sounds, all of which can be devotionally applied.
The third trumpet sound was the order to march: "Then do the trumpets give a sound a third time, that they are to go out."(1) Some have suggested that this is the equivalent of "the last trumpet" that Paul referred to in 1 Corinthians 15:52

What ever they had in 70 AD, it was certainly NOT any part of the future 70th week of Daniel.

I would say let the Jews figure that out. After all, it is their Prophecy.
You're just going to have to tie in that 70th week to 70ad.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Luk 13:34 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!

Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".
Luke 21:6
“These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely leveled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There was also Masada...........

The Siege of Masada (73 AD) - Last Stand of the Great Jewish Revolt
In 73 AD Masada, the impregnable mountain fortress in the Judaean desert, stood as the final holdout against the onslaught of Rome’s legions.
The siege that followed would mark the final, bloody suppression of the Jewish revolt with an encounter whose awe inspiring remains can still be seen in the desert today!

...............................