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Dispensationalist Only The Jews and Election

Discussion in 'Dispensationalism' started by Sola1517, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. Sola1517

    Sola1517 Saint-in-Progress (Looking for a Church)

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    Are the Jews Elect? And... How do you define election in this situation?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
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  2. agapebondservant

    agapebondservant New Member

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    Dear Truthseeker ... you may find this pdf study of interest to you.

    God Bless

    Steve
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The Bible does not teach that Jews are elect, on the basis of being Jews. And none of the well taught Dispensationalists say that. In actual fact, the promise in the scriptures is not to "Jews" but to "Israel." The difference between these two terms being that the word "Jew" only means a descendant of the ancient kingdom of Judea, which was composed of only the two Israelite tribes of Judah and Benjamin, or a practitioner of their religion.

    But even while the scriptural term is "Israel," that is, the entire twelve tribes, not just the two of them, The "elect" are not all of these. We find this in Romans 9:6-8, where we read, "For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, 'In Isaac your seed shall be called.' That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed."

    So "the elect" are some of the nation of Israel. Not all of them.

    But this brings up the question of how, then, could God have made so many explicitly stated promises to ALL of them? For we read such things as:

    "I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves. Zechariah 12:10-14

    And:

    And it shall come to pass that he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy--everyone who is recorded among the living in Jerusalem. Isaiah 4:3

    AND:

    "But you, O mountains of Israel, you shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to My people Israel, for they are about to come. 9 For indeed I am for you, and I will turn to you, and you shall be tilled and sown. 10 I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, all of it; and the cities shall be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt. 11 I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bear young; I will make you inhabited as in former times, and do better for you than at your beginnings. Then you shall know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 36:8-11

    These are indeed explicitly stated promises of God. And they will indeed be literally fulfilled. But we are also explicitly told of two events which will take place before this happens.

    Concerning those Israelites that will already be in the land when the end times come, (which is basically "the Jews,") we read:

    And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the LORD, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it: I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The LORD is my God.' " Zechariah 13:8-9

    And concerning all the rest of Israel, those that are not already in the land when the end times come, we read:

    "As I live," says the Lord GOD, "surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you. I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face. Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you," says the Lord GOD. "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 20:33-38

    So we see that there will be a great filtering out of Israel before these promises will be fulfilled. The unrepentant will be removed from their midst, and then, after that, "all Israel shall be saved." Romans 11:26
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  4. Sola1517

    Sola1517 Saint-in-Progress (Looking for a Church)

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    Thanks.
     
  5. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    MOD HAT

    A small clean up was done. Folks, check the titles and how it is tagged before posting.
     
  6. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Please reconcile your statement against Deut. 7:6; 14:2.

    The Hebrew word in Deut. 7:6 may be defined and used as:

    "to choose, elect, decide for
    1. (Qal) to choose

    2. (Niphal) to be chosen

    3. (Pual) to be chosen, selected"
    Source

    It is also the same word used in Deut. 14:2.

    And your right, they were never called "Jews" until the NT era. They were referred to as "Hebrews".

    "The word “election” comes from the Hebrew word bahar (Hebrew בחר) which means “to choose,” “to elect.” However, although the word bahar does not appear in the call of Abraham, the concept of divine election pervades the whole Old Testament. The idea of divine election is emphasized in the book of Deuteronomy: “For you are a people holy to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession” (Deuteronomy 7:6).

    Although the basic concept of election is expressed by the word bahar, other words are also used to convey the idea that Israel was set apart as God’s special people. The terminology of election includes the word bahar “to choose,” qara’ “to call,” yada‘ “to know,” and bādal “to separate.”Amos uses the word yada‘ to express Israel’s election: “You only have I known of all the families of the earth” (Amos 3:2). The expressions “treasured possession” and “the people of the Lord” also convey the idea of election.

    The second question, “why did God choose Israel?” is answered by Deuteronomy 7:7-8: “ It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the LORD set his love upon you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples; but it is because the LORD loves you, and is keeping the oath which he swore to your fathers, that the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.”

    The choice of Israel to be a special people, at its most basic meaning, testifies to the fact of unmerited grace. God did not choose Israel because they were worthy of being chosen. In fact, God chose a people who were slaves in Egypt, redeemed them and established a special relationship with them. The point that the writer of Deuteronomy was trying to convey to the new generation of Israelites was that it was because of God’s faithful love (hesed) and because of the promise he had made to Abraham that he, in his sovereignty, elected Israel to be his special people and his special possession. God told Israel on Mount Sinai: “Out of all the nations you will be my own special possession” (Exodus 19:5).

    The basis for God’s promise to Israel was the covenant he had established with Abraham. At Sinai, Israel responded to what God had done in bringing them out of Egypt and to his revelation by establishing a covenant with him and by agreeing to be his people and live in accordance with his commandments.

    Thus, it was at Sinai that Israel became God’s special people. God had established a covenant with Abraham, choosing him to be the father of a great and mighty nation. Now, as the people understood their mission in the world and their place in the redemptive work of God, the people accepted their call and destiny as the elected nation of God: “And all the people answered together and said, ‘All that the LORD has spoken we will do’” (Exodus 19:8). Israel became a special nation not because they were great and mighty, but because of the sovereign grace of the God who had delivered them from Egyptian bondage."

    The Election of Israel, Dr. Claude Mariottini

    God Bless

    Till all are one
     
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  7. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    As I was taught to believe, here are 30 items Dispensationalism teaches:

    "1.May be Arminian or modified Calvinist. Almost never 5-point Calvinist.
    2. Stresses 'literal' interpretation of the Bible.
    3. Usually does not accept the idea of the 'Analogy of Faith.'
    4. 'Israel' always means only the literal, physical descendants of Jacob.
    5. 'Israel of God' in Gal. 6:16 means physical Israel alone.
    6. God has 2 peoples with 2 separate destinies: Israel (earthly) and the Church (heavenly).
    7. The Church was born at Pentecost.
    8. The Church was not prophesied as such in the O.T. but was a hidden mystery until the N.T.
    9. All O.T. prophecies for 'Israel' are for literal Israel, not the Church.'
    10. God's main purpose in history is literal Israel.
    11. The Church is a parenthesis in God's program for the ages.
    12. The main heir to Abraham's covenant was Isaac and literal Israel.
    13. There was no eternal Covenant of Redemption within the Trinity.
    14. There was no Covenant of Works with Adam in the Garden of Eden.
    15. There was no Covenant of Grace concerning Adam.
    16. Israel was rash to accept the Covenant at Mt. Sinai.
    17. The 'New Covenant' of Jer. 31:31- 34 is only for literal Israel and is not the New Covenant of Lk.22:20.
    18. God's program in history is mainly through separate dispensations.
    19. Some Dispensationalists have said that O. T. sinners were saved by works.
    20. Most Dispensationalists teach that men in the O.T. were saved by faith in a revelation peculiar to their dispensation, but this did not include faith in the Messiah as their sin-bearer.
    21. The O.T. sacrifices were not recognized as the Gospel or types of the Messiah as sin-bearer, but only seen as such in retrospect.
    22. The Holy Spirit indwells only believers in the dispensation of Grace, not O.T. and not after the Rapture.
    23. Jesus made an offer of the literal Kingdom to Israel; since Israel rejected it, it is postponed.
    24. O.T. believers were not in Christ, not part of the Body or Bride of Christ.
    25. The Law has been abolished.
    26. O. T. laws are no longer in effect unless repeated in the N.T.
    27. The Millenium is the Kingdom of God. Dispensationalists are always Pre-Millenial and usually Pre-Tribulational.
    28. The O.T. animal sacrifices will be restored in the Millenium.
    29. The Millenium will fulfill the Covenant to Abraham. Israel has a future.
    30. David will sit on the Millenial throne in Jerusalem.

    Source

    I come to believe in Dispensational theology, believe it or not, from my Reformed, Presbyterian Grandfather.

    Now I will say however, of the above, I do not agree fully with everything.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  8. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    I agree almost completely with what you said here. But my point was twofold. One, the word "Jew," which has in modern times been widely taken as a synonym for "Israel," does not mean a descendant of the ancient nation of Israel. Rather, it means a descendant of the ancient sub-nation of Judah. That is, it means a member of either the tribe of Benjamin or of the tribe of Judah. (And of course, the word also means a practitioner of their religion.)

    That was my minor point. But my main point is that "they are not all Israel, who are of Israel... That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. Romans 9:6-8

    The elect of God is not all Israel, but only that portion of Israel that shares the faith of their father Abraham.

    The promises are indeed made to all Israel, and will indeed be fulfilled to all Israel. But at the time of their fulfillment, the physical nation of Israel will have been reduced (by death) to only that portion of that nation that trusts in the Lord.

    This is not just some theory cooked up by a crack pot. It is explicitly stated in scripture.

    Concerning those already in the land when all this begins, we read:

    And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the LORD, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it: I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The LORD is my God.' " Zechariah 13:8-9

    And concerning those Israelites not in the land, we read:

    "As I live," says the Lord GOD, "surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you. I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face. Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you," says the Lord GOD. "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 20:33-38

    This purging of those in the land will take place during the seventieth week. And the return of all Israel, and their purging will take place after Messiah returns, as we read in Isaiah 66:


    Isa 66:15 For behold, the LORD will come with fire And with His chariots, like a whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire and by His sword The LORD will judge all flesh; And the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17 "Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together," says the LORD. 18 "For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites," says the LORD. Isaiah 66:15-21
     
  9. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Whoever wrote this had a fair idea of Dispensaional doctrine. But it is fraught with errors.

    In my fifty-five years of studying and teaching Disoensational doctrine, and of interaction with other such teachers, I can not remember even one time when I heard even one of them say that God's main purpose in history is literal Israel. Nor have I ever heard even one of them say that the church is a parenthesis in God's program for the ages.

    Dispensationalists teach, and insist, that the church was an essential part of God's plan from before creation. What we say is that the church is a parenthesis in God's plan for Israel. not in His plan for the ages.

    And we both teach and insist that God's main purpose in history is to gather in one all things in Christ. (Ephesians 1:10)

    And finally, although some Dispensational teachers erroneously say that the sacrifices as described in the law of Moses will be resumed., and that this law will be restored. But this is an error. The sacrifices that will be offered in the millennium are those given in the law of Ezekiel. These sacrifices are distinctly different from those specified by Moses. And the laws for tat time are also distinctly different from the law of Moses.

    There are many other errors in this paper, but these are the most important ones.

    But one thing it says is, sadly, true. There are indeed some very ignorant Dispensationalists who imagine themselves to be teachers, and who say that in the Old Testament people were saved by works.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  10. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    A lot of what was posted, was in fact, historical Dispensationalism.

    In recent years, much has been done away with.

    I remember being taught much of the above when I was 12, I'm 55 now. So that is 43 years as a Dispensationalist. I have a book, roughly 60-70 pages of the old-time Clarence Larkin maps. :D Some of what he wrote was spot on, some wasn't.

    However, like I said, I don't agree fully with all that was posted above.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  11. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Yes, a lot of it was indeed classical dispensationalism. But a significant an=mount of it was only similar to dispensational doctrine, not actual dispensational doctrine.
     
  12. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Here is where I disagree with you.

    I have also studied eschatology for some 43 years.

    Now most people agree that the image set forth in Rev 13 is of both the beast and false prophet.

    And most people agree to the rebuilding of the temple at that time.

    Now to get the Jews in Israel to bow down, to build the "image" and worship it. That only acceptable place would be in the temple.

    Now if you believe in a "rapture" of Christians, then the believing Jews would be raptured out along with the Gentile Christians.

    In fact, the percentage of Jewish Christians is very small.

    We also know that during this time, some people will still be saved. (Mt. 24:22)

    And who are they? Those who will not take the mark. (the Martyred Saints-Rev. 7:14)

    Then we come to the Millennial reign.

    I do disagree completely with what has been posted in regards to the last nine chapters of Ezekiel.

    A re-instatement of the Law. Ritual circumcision. Sacrifices. Taxes to be paid to sacrifice.

    Those who are lucky to survive the Tribulation period and not be martyred, not take the mark, are the ones who will live during that time, only to be tried one last time when Satan is "loosed" for a short time.

    Anyhow, that is how I see it.

    I have studied eschatology for over 40 years and by no means know it all, or even have the correct answers.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.

    A large portion are still "Orthodox".
     
  13. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The sacrifices detailed in Ezekiel 43-46
    include every sacrifice specified as perpetual in the law of Moses, as well as most of the ordinances specified the same way.

    These include a renewal of the command to keep the “Sabbath,” as given in Ezekiel 44:24, Ezekiel 45:17, and Ezekiel 46:1-5 and 12. This had been commanded as “a perpetual covenant” with “the children of Israel” in Exodus 31:16. Again, in Ezekiel 45:21-25 we find the keeping of the “Passover,” with its accompanying “unleavened bread.” This had been commanded as “an everlasting ordinance” in Exodus 12:14 and 17, and “forever” in Exodus 12:24. In addition to these, we find the keeping of “the appointed feasts” in Ezekiel 46:9-11. These are detailed in Leviticus 23:4-43, where they are commanded to be kept “forever” in verses 14, 21, 31, and 41.

    The last of these “appointed feasts” was a command to “dwell in booths for seven days.” (Leviticus 23:42) This came to be called “the Feast of Tabernacles.” (John 7:2) This is not named in Ezekiel, but Zechariah 14:16-19 goes into some detail about it, saying that not only Israel, but all the surrounding nations, will come up to Jerusalem to keep it every year, and that every “family” that fails to come up to that feast will be severely punished, either by lack of rain or by plague, that is, by God himself.

    We find the same thing in the renewed laws of the priesthood. Ezekiel 44:15 explicitly limits this to “the sons of Zadok,” because he was the only priest that remained faithful “when the children of Israel went astray from” the Lord. Zadok’s descent from Aaron through Phineas is traced in 1 Chronicles 6:3-8. This is significant because the priesthood was given to Aaron and his sons “for a perpetual statute” in Exodus 29:9, and with “an everlasting priesthood” in Exodus 40:15. Then Aaron’s son Phineas and “his descendants after him” were additionally given “a covenant of an everlasting priesthood” in Numbers 25:13. So a future appointment of “the sons of Zadok” as priests is a fulfillment of this eternal pledge.

    Other perpetual laws about the priests are also repeated here. Their holy garments are mentioned in Ezekiel 42:14 and 44:17-19. These had been commanded to be worn “always” in Exodus 28:38 and as “a statute forever” in Exodus 28:43. Again, Ezekiel 44:21 says, “No priest shall drink wine when he enters the inner court.” This is the same as in Leviticus 10:9, where it is commanded as “a statute forever throughout your generations.” And Ezekiel 48:14 forbids them to sell their land. This might seem strange to us, but this was to preserve the land to them and their children for ever. This, again, is a repeat of what we find in Leviticus 25:32-34, where the priests could only sell their houses until “the Jubilee” (an equivalent of what we call a lease,) but they could not sell their land at all “for it is their perpetual possession.”

    Likewise, “every sacrifice of any kind,” including “the best of all firstfruits of any kind” were reserved as food for the priests in Ezekiel 44:29-30. These had been reserved as food for the priests as “a statute forever” in Exodus 29:28, Leviticus 6:18, 7:34 and 36, and 10:15, “as an ordinance forever” in Numbers 18:11 and 19, and “by a perpetual statute” in Leviticus 24:9.

    Thus we see that the commandments for this future worship repeat the perpetual ordinances originally given through Moses. But they are not a reinstitution of that law. For some of the laws here are different from those given through Moses. For instance, the daily “burnt offering” of a lamb every morning and every evening, with flour and oil, is commanded “continually” in Exodus 29:38 and 42, as well as “throughout your generations” in Exodus 29:42. This command is repeated in Ezekiel 46:13-15, but there it is only every morning, and the amount of flour and of oil is different.

    Another radical difference between this future worship and that under the law of Moses can be seen by referring to 1 Samuel 13. In this chapter Saul, God’s anointed king over Israel, offered up a burnt offering. “And Samuel said to Saul, ‘You have done foolishly. You have not kept the commandment of the LORD your God, which He commanded you. For now the LORD would have established your kingdom over Israel forever. But now your kingdom shall not continue. The LORD has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and the LORD has commanded him to be commander over His people, because you have not kept what the LORD commanded you.’” (1 Samuel 13:13-14) Under the law of Moses, offerings were not to be made by rulers, but by priests. Again, in 2 Chronicles 26:16-21, king Uzziah was struck with leprosy because he offered incense. But the law of this future temple will be different:

    “Then it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the New Moons, the Sabbaths, and at all the appointed seasons of the house of Israel. He shall prepare the sin offering, the grain offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offerings to make atonement for the house of Israel.” (Ezekiel 45:17)

    As punishment for presuming to act as priests, Saul lost his kingdom and Uzziah was struck with leprosy. But as we noticed on page 214, this coming prince “shall be a priest on His throne.” (Zechariah 6:13)

    These clear and well defined differences between this future law and the one given by Moses are absolute proof that this was never intended to apply to a time before Jesus came. For when Jesus was here, He said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:17-18) So, long after Ezekiel was given, Jesus himself said that not even the tiniest detail of the law would pass until He had fulfilled all of it.

    A further and very marked difference between this future worship and that in the old system is clearly stated in Jeremiah 3:16.

    “‘Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,’ says the LORD, ‘that they will say no more, “The ark of the covenant of the LORD.” It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.’”
     
  14. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Who is the "prince"? (cf. Eze. 45:16)

    You have also created a "contradiction". We are told in Heb. 10, that Jesus Christ was the sacrifice to end all sacrifices.

    Eze. 45:22 says they will sacrifice for sins.

    It is a contradiction that Jesus would require from the Orthodox Jews a sacrifice for something He had already fulfilled!

    Not to mention that during the Millennial reign, Satan is bound, so there is no sin! Its not until after he is loosed.

    Another contradiction you created is Jesus has also become the high priest. (cf. Heb. 4:14-16)

    There cannot be anymore priests. Otherwise, scriptures lie and I know they cannot lie.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  15. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Let me take your priesthood of Zadok one step further.

    In Hebrews, we are taught that Christ is the supreme, ultimate Priest, yet according to Ezekiel, a new priesthood will be reinstated to perform sacrifices:

    "The Levites shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people they shall not come near unto Me, to do the office of a priest unto Me but I will make them keepers of the charge of the house." -Eze. 44:10-15 (KJV)

    Then you have the sons of Zadok:

    Those of higher office, the priests, were to be also from among the sons of Levi, but entirely of the sons of Zadok (ch. 40: 46); Zadok was High Priest in David's time, eleventh in descent from Aaron:
    the priests, the keepers of the charge of the altar: these are the sons of Zadok among the sons of Levi, which come near to the Lord to minister unto Him.'
    Their ministry was to be that of a sacrificing priesthood, making offerings at the altar continually, both for the people and for themselves (ch. 44:11).

    Verse 11, `they [the Levites] shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people.'

    Verse 15, `But the priests . . . the sons of Zadok . shall stand before Me to offer unto Me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord God.'

    Verse 27, `in the day that he [the priest] goeth . . to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his sin offering, saith the Lord God.'

    If this is a prophecy of the Millennial Age it makes void the sole Priesthood of Jesus (Hebrews 5), and foretells the resumption of an earthly priesthood and an endless succession of blood sacrifices for all manner of purposes and occasions, to effect what Christ as High Priest offering Himself must therefore have failed to effect.

    Further, these priestly ministrations at the altar, with continual offerings of animal sacrifices, were `to make reconciliation' for the people (ch. 45, verses 15 and 17) whereas we read in Hebrews 2, verse 17, that it is Christ Who is the `merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people'.

    If this is true, why in the Millennial Age should the Priesthood of Zadok be revived, unless it could do what Christ must therefore have failed to do?

    Moreover, we read in 2 Corinthians 5, verses 18 and 19 that God `hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.'

    Addressing the sacrifices...

    They were to be burnt offerings, sin offerings, meat offerings, trespass offerings and peace offerings. Read the full list and mark the details of the ordinances in chapters 40: 39; 42: I3; 43: 18 to end; 44: 27-29; 45:17 to end; 46. In the two latter chapters the sacrificial observances of Sabbaths and new moons, as well as the daily sacrifices, were to be resumed.

    Further, chapter 45:21 ordains the restoration of the Passover, to be observed with seven days' eating of unleavened bread, and sin offerings of bullocks, rams and kids.

    Now, if this refers to Millennial times, was not St. Paul sadly mistaken when he declared in 1 Corinthians 5:7, that `Christ our passover is sacrificed for us'?

    On this question of the resumption of blood sacrifices in the future, study Hebrews 10, especially verses 1-14. In verses 5-9 our Lord's First Coming is expressly stated to have been in order that by the taking away of the legal sacrifices through the offering of His own Body He might establish the will of God, and so we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all' (v. 10).

    Why should it be supposed to be necessary, by the restoration of sacrifices, to establish the will of God in the Millennial era if that has already been done by our Lord `once for all'?

    Moreover, from Hebrews 10:16-18 we learn that the New Covenant being now in operation there is no further need of sacrifices.

    Verse 18, `there is no more offering for sin.'

    Verse 14, `By one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.'

    So then the all-sufficient Sacrifice, and the last ever to be offered, was that of Calvary! Is it conceivable that in the better days to come we shall renounce that Blessed Substance of final redemptive achievement for the renewal of vain type and shadow?

    No sir, I reject the view of a renewed priesthood and revival of sacrificing during the millennial reign.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  16. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Here is another fact.

    The hardest book of eschatology there is, is the book of Revelation.

    Out of 22 chapters in that book, only 4 verses address the millennium.

    "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years...And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison," -Rev. 20:4-7 (KJV)

    And it even goes so far as to say:

    "they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." -Rev. 20:6 (KJV)

    Unless all these individuals are of the lineage of Zadok.

    Seems strange that they would reign with Christ, and yet also have to sacrifice. (they shall be priests)

    And even then, there is no mention of Ezekiel's prophesies.

    Hum...

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  17. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    But I fear we are chasing rabbits here.

    Yes, there is scriptural proof of the doctrine of "election" in the Old Testament, in God's sovereign choice/election of the Hebrews/Jews.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  18. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Like I said, from these "maps"/"charts" is what I know as classical dispensationalism:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The 3 "ages" and 7 "dispensations".

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  19. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Larkin's Charts are a good general summation of Dispensationalism, although it differs somewhat in detail from the concepts of both the classical dispsensationalists of the nineteenth century and of the dispensationalists that subscribe to the changes introduced in the early twentieth century by Dwight Pentecost.

    But that is a detail.

    My main response, with which I will end this, is that you are neglecting the change in dispensations. At every change in dispensations, God has always changed the way which He relates to mankind. The three most drastic and noticeable of these changes is when God ended His open fellowship with mankind after the sin in the garden, when He gave the law of Moses, and when He offered free grade to all after our Lord paid for our sins on the cross.

    But there have been other such changes as well. These are just the three most drastic. Now if God has the sovereign right to change the way n which He relates to mankind whenever He chooses to, (and He does) then He has the right to do this again in the future.

    It is not interpretation that the last nine chapters of Ezekiel were to happen in the future. This is explicitly and stated in Ezekiel 43:6 and in several more places in these chapters. And we know it has not happened. So it is simply unbelief to deny that this will happen in the future. Whether or not we understand how it can happen is trivial. God said it, and we are responsible to believe it.

    We need to be very cautious that we do not give more credence to our interpretation means, than to what another scripture explicitly says.
     
  20. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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