This is going to be a very long post, but that is not really a problem for anyone interested in the subject because the videos I will reference cover around 8-10 hours of material. So I will let the length of this post be the fire to burn away the unwanted replies that are not gold.
I've become more or less exhausted in debating with the mental gymnasts among you known as apologists, and, as noted in another of my threads here on this forum, I am done with the arguing for the time being. I have been solicited for a private debate involving several Christians here and, after an initial misunderstanding was cleared up, I accepted the offer with the condition that one particular member who is prone to abandoning discussions would agree not to do such. Despite indicating an acceptance of the offer to two of the participants both in private and in public, nothing has originated. Overall, though, I've definitely been involved in too much bad human interaction, both in terms of receiving and dispensing, to want to continue debating with everyone. For that reason I'm going to post my question in this forum rather than the apologetics forum.
As I am not currently interested in debate, I have no need for input from my fellow atheists (aside from the one whom I hope you all will be critiquing, the YouTuber known as TruthSurge). I will be asking for input from all of you and I will not be responding other than to offer thanks, or to say that I agree with a claim being made that supports a historical Jesus, or to perhaps clarify questions that may arise. So I will not be arguing with any of you, no matter how terrible an argument might be. However, there are some responses that I will find unacceptable.
Please do not simply dismiss the claims put forth by TruthSurge out of hand - at least, do not do this openly. I know some of you here will dismiss the claims without even watching the videos. However, it is written, "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." Also, do not simply say he is espousing nonsense or crackpot theories. If you disagree with a claim, then either cite your reasons or simply say, "I disagree with his claims because it contradicts my faith but I do not know how to disprove what he has said." It's perfectly acceptable to not know an answer. Do not pretend to know something you don't, and please do not raise an objection that he has already addressed in the videos. Simply repeating your claims instead of addressing his argument serves no purpose other than to aggravate me.
I am posting here because he has such a large volume of claims that I simply cannot feasibly research every source being cited. Combine that with the fact that perhaps some of you here may already have some answers, and it is clear that I should start my search here.
Let me clarify, before I post the links, that I have an open mind and I do not expect any of you to. I do not think that you will, even for a second, entertain the notion that Jesus the human being never existed. I just want you to watch the videos, jot down TruthSurge's references, and investigate those references. Many hands make light work, and there are many of you but only one of me. Also, I have, more or less, no stake in this discussion. Being an atheist, it makes little difference to me if Jesus never existed or if he was simply a man who was wrongly convicted and executed as a common criminal. But you do have a stake in this, so perhaps some of you will expend more individual effort researching these claims than I do by myself.
Where do I currently stand on this issue? I'm not entirely sure. I was greatly impressed by TruthSurge's work, and I told him as much, but I am taken aback a bit by the fact that many (if not all) of the top scholars - even the atheist ones - profess that Jesus existed as a historical figure. So while it may be the case that many of the events depicted in the gospels contain pagan (that is, Greek) references, the characters in the events may have still actually existed. James and John, for example, are undoubtedly depicted as references to the Greek demigods Castor and Polydeuces (pending your research efforts), but it does not logically follow that the actual James and John did not exist.
I think many people will benefit from this endeavor. The Jesus Myth Theory is gaining in popularity and so as Christians you ought to perhaps produce a hub of information to help (at least partially) debunk the idea. For hundreds of years it was impossible to even research this idea seriously because publishing one's thoughts and gathering feedback was utterly impossible when the Catholic Church was torturing and murdering heretics. As the field of study is relatively new, it stands to reason that it will only increase both in popularity and in academic strength as a fact-based theory.
Now here are the playlists:
Excavating the Empty Tomb
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1D58C69D194384D2
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAAA3872E8F6B9A8E
I recommend watching them in this order even though he made the videos in the reverse order because the newer videos are of a better quality in all aspects and are also covering, in my opinion, the more pertinent details of the theory.
I've become more or less exhausted in debating with the mental gymnasts among you known as apologists, and, as noted in another of my threads here on this forum, I am done with the arguing for the time being. I have been solicited for a private debate involving several Christians here and, after an initial misunderstanding was cleared up, I accepted the offer with the condition that one particular member who is prone to abandoning discussions would agree not to do such. Despite indicating an acceptance of the offer to two of the participants both in private and in public, nothing has originated. Overall, though, I've definitely been involved in too much bad human interaction, both in terms of receiving and dispensing, to want to continue debating with everyone. For that reason I'm going to post my question in this forum rather than the apologetics forum.
As I am not currently interested in debate, I have no need for input from my fellow atheists (aside from the one whom I hope you all will be critiquing, the YouTuber known as TruthSurge). I will be asking for input from all of you and I will not be responding other than to offer thanks, or to say that I agree with a claim being made that supports a historical Jesus, or to perhaps clarify questions that may arise. So I will not be arguing with any of you, no matter how terrible an argument might be. However, there are some responses that I will find unacceptable.
Please do not simply dismiss the claims put forth by TruthSurge out of hand - at least, do not do this openly. I know some of you here will dismiss the claims without even watching the videos. However, it is written, "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." Also, do not simply say he is espousing nonsense or crackpot theories. If you disagree with a claim, then either cite your reasons or simply say, "I disagree with his claims because it contradicts my faith but I do not know how to disprove what he has said." It's perfectly acceptable to not know an answer. Do not pretend to know something you don't, and please do not raise an objection that he has already addressed in the videos. Simply repeating your claims instead of addressing his argument serves no purpose other than to aggravate me.
I am posting here because he has such a large volume of claims that I simply cannot feasibly research every source being cited. Combine that with the fact that perhaps some of you here may already have some answers, and it is clear that I should start my search here.
Let me clarify, before I post the links, that I have an open mind and I do not expect any of you to. I do not think that you will, even for a second, entertain the notion that Jesus the human being never existed. I just want you to watch the videos, jot down TruthSurge's references, and investigate those references. Many hands make light work, and there are many of you but only one of me. Also, I have, more or less, no stake in this discussion. Being an atheist, it makes little difference to me if Jesus never existed or if he was simply a man who was wrongly convicted and executed as a common criminal. But you do have a stake in this, so perhaps some of you will expend more individual effort researching these claims than I do by myself.
Where do I currently stand on this issue? I'm not entirely sure. I was greatly impressed by TruthSurge's work, and I told him as much, but I am taken aback a bit by the fact that many (if not all) of the top scholars - even the atheist ones - profess that Jesus existed as a historical figure. So while it may be the case that many of the events depicted in the gospels contain pagan (that is, Greek) references, the characters in the events may have still actually existed. James and John, for example, are undoubtedly depicted as references to the Greek demigods Castor and Polydeuces (pending your research efforts), but it does not logically follow that the actual James and John did not exist.
I think many people will benefit from this endeavor. The Jesus Myth Theory is gaining in popularity and so as Christians you ought to perhaps produce a hub of information to help (at least partially) debunk the idea. For hundreds of years it was impossible to even research this idea seriously because publishing one's thoughts and gathering feedback was utterly impossible when the Catholic Church was torturing and murdering heretics. As the field of study is relatively new, it stands to reason that it will only increase both in popularity and in academic strength as a fact-based theory.
Now here are the playlists:
Excavating the Empty Tomb
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1D58C69D194384D2
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAAA3872E8F6B9A8E
I recommend watching them in this order even though he made the videos in the reverse order because the newer videos are of a better quality in all aspects and are also covering, in my opinion, the more pertinent details of the theory.
