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The 'Invisible church' bugs me.

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by Jackson Cooper, Aug 20, 2018.

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  1. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    “When he has brought out all his own, he goes ahead of them; and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
    They will never follow a stranger, but will run away from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
    John 10:4-5

    Now a natural man does not accept the things of the Ruach Elohim, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. But the one who is spiritual discerns all things, and he himself is discerned by no one. For “who has known the mind of Adonai, that he will instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Messiah.
    1 Corinthians 2:14-16
     
  2. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  3. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The term Invisible Church is not a doctrine. :doh:
    In fact, I'd never heard it anywhere except on CF.
     
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  4. buzuxi02

    buzuxi02 Veteran

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    The primary dogma of protestantism is sola scripture, and this is what JW hold to. They are just more honest about it. You guys also borrowed from what was culturally bequeathed to you by your Latin ancestors such as the Trinity. But unlike them you lie and claim you came up with it all on your own including the identical Greek terminology of the 4-5th centuries. JW and protestantism hold to the same central doctrine of sola scripture.
     
  5. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    2Co_1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
    Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
     
  6. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  7. Valetic

    Valetic Addicted to CF Supporter

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    The church. The ekklesia. The called out ones. For many are called but few are chosen.

    1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
     
  8. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    The JWs, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, Salvation Army, Methodists, ad infinitum. They are all protestants.
     
  9. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  10. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Perhaps this thread should be moved to St. Justin's, as that is the place where debate may be engaged in by non-EO, not here in TAW/the main EO forum.

    Anyway, yes, OP, the idea of an "invisible church" is wrong. We often read from the epistles to the Galatians, the Romans, and the congregations of other actually-existing (read: not invisible) locations, or to the Hebrews, to Philemon, and other actually-existing (not invisible) groups or individuals, but there is no "epistle to the invisible Church", because obviously the actually-existing people in actually-existing places that make up the actually-existing visible Church (i.e., the only Church that there is; the one that St. Paul wrote to) do not suddenly 'go invisible'/dematerialize when considered in a global or wide-ranging historical context. This is usually how I have heard it invoked, anyway, that the "invisible Church" is the collection of all true believers everywhere, across space and time. I find that difficult to swallow because even if we were to take that as a given, we'd still be talking about people who actually exist(ed) and can either be located in Church (in specific parishes/missions), communing with us from the one cup or not, and if not, then no, they are not the Church.

    You can believe all you want in your heart in some kind of cosmic/dematerialized way, but who is where is actually empirically observable. I could make a tally of how many Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, etc. believers there are in a given place by looking at their baptismal rolls (this is not to say that all of these are the one Church, of course, but at least they are actually existing communions of some kind; they don't play at all being one...well, the Roman Catholic Church kind of does, but they're different...squishier). You don't get the same certainty by just asking people what they believe in their heart or whatever, because if you ask 10 different sola scriptura-ists what they believe, you'll likely get 10 vaguely similar opinions, and not a one will spontaneously generate the Creed. The Church wrote that. The not invisible Church.
     
  11. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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  12. Cement

    Cement Active Member

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    I dont see being part of a different denomination that affirms the nicene creed as having anything to do with your relationship with God. When we get to heaven we will all see how wrong we were thats why I try having as much of an open mind as possible.
     
  13. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    I am not Catholic. And I'm certainly not a protestant.

    But why would you say that one group that broke away to redefine Christianity is protestant while another group that did the same thing isn't?
     
  14. buzuxi02

    buzuxi02 Veteran

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    That's up to God. God can save whomever he wants whether it be protestant, shaman, agnostic or shinto. What I know is that Christ sent His Holy Spirit upon one Body at Pentecost which has always existed in a direct lineage without it ever acknowledging or allowing for any syncretistic parallel societies to usurp it or lay claim to it.
     
  15. buzuxi02

    buzuxi02 Veteran

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    According to the Nicene Creed you cannot have "different denominations". Secondly what constitutes a relationship with God differs because the "different denominations" have a differing understanding of what that means and how to achieve it.
     
  16. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    God's doesn't care about denominations. They are just man-made labels to identify Christians according to new movements that came out of different revivals through the centuries. All these denominations will burn up when Jesus comes again, and only those who believe on Christ will survive into a godly eternity. When all the believers are standing around God's throne praising Him, they will not be in denominational groups, because there will be no denominations in heaven; only those who have come through the narrow gate of receiving Christ as Saviour.

    There is the story of a guy who got to heaven and he was shown around, and presently he came to a walled off section. He asked the angel what that was. "Oh", replied the angel. "Behind there is the Church of the Latter Day Saints. We let them think they are the only ones here!"
     
  17. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    My belief is not in an organization such as a Denomination.

    I did not receive my Salvation through, by or because of what any Denomination has ever done.

    My Belief is in Jesus Christ the Author and Finisher of my Faith in Him for the Forgiveness of sins.

    My life in Christ was Sealed by the Holy Spirit upon my Baptism, for I am in Christ.

    If anyone has more than I have ever received by belonging to any certain Denomination then I can't imagine what it would be, because "IT" did not Die for me, and "IT" did not give Eternal Life to me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  18. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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  19. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  20. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    I already know what they believe, thank you.
     
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