LDS The Innefectual Christ of Mormonism

[Jamesone5]

The Articles of Faith are the major tenant of the Mormon Church and here, I found something very telling about their Christ in this one.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:13)

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

This is of course, is a very poor rewrite of some Bible verses with their Mormon twist added in. Most notably this verse is somewhat reflected in that Article of Faith:

1 Corinthians 13:7
bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

This verse is the Chapter about Love and really has nothing to do with what they think it means.

And then this one at the very last of their Article of Faith

Philippians 4:8 (NKJV)
8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

What is telling, is that in the rewrite of 1 Corinthians 13:7, is that Mormons can only hope to be able to endure all things---without Christ, of course.

We, who have the true Christ--- have this promise:

Philippians 4:13
I can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me.

No mere hope to endure. He WILL give us the strength.

 

[Rescued One]

Wow! I never compared the thirteenth article of faith to Philippians 4:8!

How horrible! I'm glad you brought this up.

 

[Jamesone5]

Wow! I never compared the thirteenth article of faith to Philippians 4:8!

How horrible! I'm glad you brought this up.

Joseph Smith had a habit of rewriting scripture to make it all sound legitimate and then, to suit his own Doctrines.

 

[Rescued One]

deleted

 

[Ironhold]

The Articles of Faith are the major tenant of the Mormon Church and here, I found something very telling about their Christ in this one.

The Articles of Faith are derived from a series of bullet statements Joseph Smith wrote in response to a newspaper query.

If you'll note, they're written in a sort of legalese meant to spell things out explicitly for those who aren't members. The turn of the phrase you object to is actually a result of that legalese.

It wasn't until some time later that they were adopted as anything official.

Yes, I write for a living...

 

[Jamesone5]

The Articles of Faith are derived from a series of bullet statements Joseph Smith wrote in response to a newspaper query.

If you'll note, they're written in a sort of legalese meant to spell things out explicitly for those who aren't members. The turn of the phrase you object to is actually a result of that legalese.

It wasn't until some time later that they were adopted as anything official.

Yes, I write for a living...

I see, so you read those Articles of Faith and then you HOPE to be able to endure all things? It is still official Doctrine, btw.


I write as well, but that is why I go through phrases word-by word.

 

[He is the way]

The Articles of Faith are the major tenant of the Mormon Church and here, I found something very telling about their Christ in this one.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:13)

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

This is of course, is a very poor rewrite of some Bible verses with their Mormon twist added in. Most notably this verse is somewhat reflected in that Article of Faith:

1 Corinthians 13:7
bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

This verse is the Chapter about Love and really has nothing to do with what they think it means.

And then this one at the very last of their Article of Faith

Philippians 4:8 (NKJV)
8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

What is telling, is that in the rewrite of 1 Corinthians 13:7, is that Mormons can only hope to be able to endure all things---without Christ, of course.

We, who have the true Christ--- have this promise:

Philippians 4:13
I can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me.

No mere hope to endure. He WILL give us the strength.

It is important to understand the power of HOPE:

(New Testament | Romans 8:24 - 25)

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

(New Testament | Romans 15:13)

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Without hope we are lost:

(New Testament | Ephesians 2:12 - 13)

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

 

[Jamesone5]

It is important to understand the power of HOPE:

(New Testament | Romans 8:24 - 25)

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

(New Testament | Romans 15:13)

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Without hope we are lost:

(New Testament | Ephesians 2:12 - 13)

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Those are all positive verses--telling us there is hope in Christ.

But yet we see this set of false scripture telling us this:

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:13)

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things

It is a sad,incomplete rewrite of the Bible.

 

[He is the way]

Those are all positive verses--telling us there is hope in Christ.

But yet we see this set of false scripture telling us this:

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:13)

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things

It is a sad,incomplete rewrite of the Bible.

It is truly sad when people will not hearken to the words of God and be saved by enduring to the end.

 

[Jamesone5]

It is truly sad when people will not hearken to the words of God and be saved by enduring to the end.

Yes it is. So why only hope to be able to endure all things?

 

[He is the way]

Yes it is. So why only hope to be able to endure all things?

There is no promise that everyone will be saved. There is no promise that everyone will endure to the end. It is through hope, endurance, patience and faith in Christ that salvation comes. We are taught what we should do:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 13:6 - 7)

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

There is NO guarantee that we will do what we are asked to do. In the end it is through hope that we are saved.

 

[Jamesone5]

There is no promise that everyone will be saved. There is no promise that everyone will endure to the end. It is through hope, endurance, patience and faith in Christ that salvation comes. We are taught what we should do:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 13:6 - 7)

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.


There is NO guarantee that we will do what we are asked to do. In the end it is through hope that we are saved.

A guarantee is not a Promise?

You answer is right here:

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Does this say hope [or hopeth] to endureth all things?​

Lets' make this about me versus you.

Do you merely hope you endure to the end for your salvation? What happens when something really tragic comes up in your life?

Do you only hope you are saved? How can you measure your good works, to see if you have done enough of them?



I have my answers, by the way.

 

[dzheremi]

Alright, I'm going to stick my neck out a bit on this one because I'm not entirely sure what the objection to the Mormon phrasing is all about. Is it wrong that they say they hope to endure? I guess I don't see how it's exclusive with regard to Philippians 4:13, much less so 1 Corinthians 13:7, which commands to both hope and to endure. Indeed we can do all things through Christ Who strengthens us. Does that mean that it is wrong to pray for strength?

If you're on a ship do you not pray for still waters even as you also trust the captain?

 

[Jamesone5]

Alright, I'm going to stick my neck out a bit on this one because I'm not entirely sure what the objection to the Mormon phrasing is all about. Is it wrong that they say they hope to endure? I guess I don't see how it's exclusive with regard to Philippians 4:13, much less so 1 Corinthians 13:7, which commands to both hope and to endure. Indeed we can do all things through Christ Who strengthens us. Does that mean that it is wrong to pray for strength?

If you're on a ship do you not pray for still waters even as you also trust the captain?

Uh, yes--- hope and endure, but not hope to endure.

And "CAN do all things through Christ who strengthens me" does not mean HOPE I can do all things though Christ, who I HOPE strengthens me


Do you have a Christ that does not lift you up--especially when you need Him to?. Do you have a Christ--that when He makes a Promise to you that you just HOPE will be fulfilled? That would be a false trust in Him.

My experiences maybe minorly matches up with the martyrs of the Faith. Stephan as the first martyr did not just hope to endure--He ENDURED while the Pharisees were stoning him. He even prayed for them while they were stoning him.

This question is not about whether we are to pray. Of course we are to---- but we are to expect in our prayers what He promises.

this Article of Faith does not mention prayer but it essentially rewrites 1 Corinthians 13:7 and Phil. 4:8 and it is has to do with my former Church--the LDS.

 

[He is the way]

A guarantee is not a Promise?

You answer is right here:

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Does this say hope [or hopeth] to endureth all things?​

Lets' make this about me versus you.

Do you merely hope you endure to the end for your salvation? What happens when something really tragic comes up in your life?

Do you only hope you are saved? How can you measure your good works, to see if you have done enough of them?



I have my answers, by the way.

Do you merely hope you endure to the end for your salvation?
Yes
What happens when something really tragic comes up in your life?
I will do my best to overcome it.
Do you only hope you are saved?
Yes
How can you measure your good works, to see if you have done enough of them?
I do not measure them, Jesus Christ does. All judgement is given to Him. This life is a test and everyone will be judged after it is finished.

 

[Rescued One]

We not only have faith in Christ, but our faith tells that we have been saved, are being saved, and will endure. It doesn't depend on us because we didn't save ourselves in the first place. The One Who saved us won't throw us back.

1 John 5
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

[dzheremi]

Uh, yes--- hope and endure, but not hope to endure.

And "CAN do all things through Christ who strengthens me" does not mean HOPE I can do all things though Christ, who I HOPE strengthens me


Do you have a Christ that does not lift you up--especially when you need Him to?. Do you have a Christ--that when He makes a Promise to you that you just HOPE will be fulfilled? That would be a false trust in Him.

My experiences maybe minorly matches up with the martyrs of the Faith. Stephan as the first martyr did not just hope to endure--He ENDURED while the Pharisees were stoning him. He even prayed for them while they were stoning him.

This question is not about whether we are to pray. Of course we are to---- but we are to expect in our prayers what He promises.

this Article of Faith does not mention prayer but it essentially rewrites 1 Corinthians 13:7 and Phil. 4:8 and it is has to do with my former Church--the LDS.

I see your point. I guess I just didn't read it that way initially. Thank you.

 

[Jamesone5]

Do you merely hope you endure to the end for your salvation?
Yes
What happens when something really tragic comes up in your life?
I will do my best to overcome it.
Do you only hope you are saved?
Yes
How can you measure your good works, to see if you have done enough of them?
I do not measure them, Jesus Christ does. All judgement is given to Him. This life is a test and everyone will be judged after it is finished.

Do you merely hope you endure to the end for your salvation?​

Yes---He is the Way
​

Then your [partial] Faith you have established is in the wrong Christ, as evidenced elsewhere in you response.

 

[He is the way]

Do you merely hope you endure to the end for your salvation?​

Yes---He is the Way
​

Then your [partial] Faith you have established is in the wrong Christ, as evidenced elsewhere in you response.

God is LOVE anything else is the wrong God.

 

[Ironhold]

Then your [partial] Faith you have established is in the wrong Christ, as evidenced elsewhere in you response.​

​

You mean like how a certain one of Jesus' apostles swore that he would never deny Christ yet denied him thrice in a single morning?

Jesus knew that the guy could talk a good game, but lacked the moral courage to back it up. Indeed, it took the guilt and shame of realizing what he'd done for him to harden up and be the witness Christ needed him to be.