The ineffectual god of the cessationist.

[Alithis]

The cessationist .one who has been taught (interestingly from a source external to the scripture) the gift or abilities of the Holy Spirit were for (limited to)specific persons for a specific period of time which has now ended.
This (in the teaching passed to them from sources outside of scripture)is applied also to the receiving (baptism )of the Holy Spirit. Thus rendering God utterly ineffectual in the everyday lives of men.(though many of them do not yet realize that's the case).
Cessationism is a diabolical extreme of double mindededness.

 

[Dave-W]

Thus rendering God utterly ineffectual in the everyday lives of men.

And that is the main point of cessationism. It is the result of a false scientific world view that excludes any kind of supernatural intervention.

THe thought process goes something like this: "Maybe it happened in the distant past, and maybe it will happen again in the distant future; but it had better NOT happen in the here and now where I am because I believe in science."

It is a world view devoid of faith. And without faith it is impossible to please HIM.

 

[Widlast]

The cessationist .one who has been taught (interestingly from a source external to the scripture) the gift or abilities of the Holy Spirit were for (limited to)specific persons for a specific period of time which has now ended.
This (in the teaching passed to them from sources outside of scripture)is applied also to the receiving (baptism )of the Holy Spirit. Thus rendering God utterly ineffectual in the everyday lives of men.(though many of them do not yet realize that's the case).
Cessationism is a diabolical extreme of double mindededness.

You miss the point. Cessationists don't believe that miracles can occur now because THEY are not able to do any. And from their point of view, if they, wondrous faithful servants of God that they are, cannot do miracles then nobody can.
They tend to ignore the various saints and wonder workers that certain churches have had through the last 2000 years.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yes, if one looks in the right place, one finds miracles. They are often done quietly though, with no fanfare and fame.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

I am not a cessationist myself, but I believe it is a misrepresentation to simply characterise them as basing their views on a scientific worldview (there are plenty of young-earth creationist cessationists) or rejecting the Holy Spirit outright.

A cessationist would rightly say it is only by divine intervention that we are saved in the first place, and that the Holy Spirit comes to live within us and regenerates us into a new person in Christ, saving us from our sins, and without the Holy Spirit our eyes cannot be opened to understand the Scriptures etc.

And many would base their beliefs on the Bible, due to a lack of evidence in their view that the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit have continued into the present day. (I would counter that I see no evidence from the Bible that the gifts stopped either)

It does not mean God cannot do a miracle, He can do anything, and cessationists would affirm He can still answer prayer, and heal you if He so chooses to, etc.

 

[South Bound]

The cessationist .one who has been taught (interestingly from a source external to the scripture) the gift or abilities of the Holy Spirit were for (limited to)specific persons for a specific period of time which has now ended.
This (in the teaching passed to them from sources outside of scripture)is applied also to the receiving (baptism )of the Holy Spirit. Thus rendering God utterly ineffectual in the everyday lives of men.(though many of them do not yet realize that's the case).
Cessationism is a diabolical extreme of double mindededness.

So rather than discussing the Biblical teaching that revelation ended with the closing of the canon intelligently and maturely, your plan is just to insult us?

Interesting to me that, for all of your childish crowing about how the Biblical doctrine that new revelation ceased with the closing of the canon is somehow extra-Biblical, you didn't bother to cite any verses that show God is still giving new extra-Biblical revelation or explain how we're to know whether or not these alleged new "revelations" are from God without the objective and authoritative standard of scripture

And on that note, can I be the only one who notices the hypocrisy of dismissing the Biblical teaching that revelation ceased with the closing of the canon because you believe it is "not in the Bible", but don't seem to be bothered at all by the fact that the new revelation (which by an amazing coincidence always just happens to agree with your ideology) you're defending are, themselves, extra-Biblical?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm not a cessationist (or a "continuist" either), but I find it more troubling that the OP has chosen to identify a particular set of charisms with God's efficacy, rather than in God's means of Grace found in the Gospel and the Sacramental life of the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[~Anastasia~]

I'm not a cessationist (or a "continuist" either), but I find it more troubling that the OP has chosen to identify a particular set of charisms with God's efficacy, rather than in God's means of Grace found in the Gospel and the Sacramental life of the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

I can identify with this - somewhat.

Our Church does not believe the gifts stopped. But we also recognize that their appearance is not what so many would identify them to be today.

We also tend to see that it is the very holy ones who have cultivated a walk with God and made every attempt to overcome the flesh that tend to display these gifts.

I hadn't wanted to step on anyone's toes, but I am now also concerned with misrepresenting what I consider to be truth.

I fear everyone will have their own "side" though, and there may not be much fruitful discussion.

 

[Alithis]

I am not a cessationist myself, but I believe it is a misrepresentation to simply characterise them as basing their views on a scientific worldview (there are plenty of young-earth creationist cessationists) or rejecting the Holy Spirit outright.

A cessationist would rightly say it is only by divine intervention that we are saved in the first place, and that the Holy Spirit comes to live within us and regenerates us into a new person in Christ, saving us from our sins, and without the Holy Spirit our eyes cannot be opened to understand the Scriptures etc.

And many would base their beliefs on the Bible, due to a lack of evidence in their view that the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit have continued into the present day. (I would counter that I see no evidence from the Bible that the gifts stopped either)

It does not mean God cannot do a miracle, He can do anything, and cessationists would affirm He can still answer prayer, and heal you if He so chooses to, etc.

I agree it is a misrepresentation in regard to a scientific view .

 

[Alithis]

So rather than discussing the Biblical teaching that revelation ended with the closing of the canon intelligently and maturely, your plan is just to insult us?

Interesting to me that, for all of your childish crowing about how the Biblical doctrine that new revelation ceased with the closing of the canon is somehow extra-Biblical, you didn't bother to cite any verses that show God is still giving new extra-Biblical revelation or explain how we're to know whether or not these alleged new "revelations" are from God without the objective and authoritative standard of scripture

And on that note, can I be the only one who notices the hypocrisy of dismissing the Biblical teaching that revelation ceased with the closing of the canon because you believe it is "not in the Bible", but don't seem to be bothered at all by the fact that the new revelation (which by an amazing coincidence always just happens to agree with your ideology) you're defending are, themselves, extra-Biblical?

This is simply incorrect.
I have offered not even a mention of some ongoing revelation.
How ever I do know in the absolute the the Lord Jesus is the revelation of God to us and he has certainly not ceased to be.
I never mentioned biblical cannon and have not crowed about anything.
I have simply stated that ceassationism is the extreme of double mindedness.

It states that the Holy spirits role has ended but is bases it on one single out of context verse and has zero supporting scripture ,
One place in the bible states that "gift or abilities will end "(not have ceased) but goes on to say when .being "when the perfect comes" pp.
They then go on to say ..with zero supporting scripture that "the perfect refers to the revelation of truth.

The scripture does not state that..they add that to it.thus it is external source imposing that meaning onto that one line of text.

Jesus himself is the revelation of God to us. The scriptures do support that fully. And HE has not yet returned (come).
So based on that one out of context line in one out of context verse..they believe some things with the left hand and disbelieve other things in scripture with the right.

It is the epitome of being double minded.

 

[Widlast]

It is the epitamy of being double minded.

It's "epitome". (sorry, I'm a spelling Nazi)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Perhaps a cessationist simply saw those "holding the form of religion but denying the power"
so
in that case, he's right. Where there's no power to live a joyous, peaceful, righteous life, abiding in union with Y'SHUA daily,
then
a cessationist is simply seeing what is there. (or in this case what is not there)

 

[Alithis]

It's "epitome". (sorry, I'm a spelling Nazi)

Right you are

 

[South Bound]

This is simply incorrect.
I have offered not even a mention of some ongoing revelation.
How ever I do know in the absolute the the Lord Jesus is the revelation of God to us and he has certainly not ceased to be.
I never mentioned biblical cannon and have not crowed about anything.
I have simply stated that ceassationism is the extreme of double mindedness.

It states that the Holy spirits role has ended but is bases it on one single out of context verse and has zero supporting scripture ,
One place in the bible states that "gift or abilities will end "(not have ceased) but goes on to say when .being "when the perfect comes" pp.
They then go on to say ..with zero supporting scripture that "the perfect refers to the revelation of truth.

The scripture does not state that..they add that to it.thus it is external source imposing that meaning onto that one line of text.

Jesus himself is the revelation of God to us. The scriptures do support that fully. And HE has not yet returned (come).
So based on that one out of context line in one out of context verse..they believe some things with the left hand and disbelieve other things in scripture with the right.

It is the epitome of being double minded.

So you continue to lie about what we believe and insult us Doesn't exactly encourage me to take you seriously

 

[Alithis]

You miss the point. Cessationists don't believe that miracles can occur now because THEY are not able to do any. And from their point of view, if they, wondrous faithful servants of God that they are, cannot do miracles then nobody can.
They tend to ignore the various saints and wonder workers that certain churches have had through the last 2000 years.

I'd be prone to ignore those so called saints to I guess.different topic though. My point is what use is a God who has ceased to do anything as their version they claim has.

 

[Alithis]

So you continue to lie about what we believe and insult us Doesn't exactly encourage me to take you seriously

Feel free to correct me .I have no problem with that.
You believe the gifts(abilities)of the Holy spirit have ceased..yes?
You bass it on a verse in Corinthians and then impose a meaning one line in the verse which has come from outside scripture ,yes?
Ie tongues and healings etc are not for today and don't exist..-that's what you believe ....yes?

What is the accusation of a lie based on ?

 

[Widlast]

I'd be prone to ignore those so called saints to I guess.different topic though. My point is what use is a God who has ceased to do anything as their version they claim has.

Why would you ignore reality? There have been thousands of men and women who have been God's true servants as has been shown by the signs and wonders they have performed. It is absurd to think that they "could not exist" just because they don't belong to your chosen denomination.

 

[Alithis]

Why would you ignore reality? There have been thousands of men and women who have been God's true servants as has been shown by the signs and wonders they have performed. It is absurd to think that they "could not exist" just because they don't belong to your chosen denomination.

didn't say they didn't exist , also didn't say i'm ignoring reality
i said "I'd be prone to ignore those so called saints to I guess.different topic though." ...

so lets get back to this topic .
God in no way states in his word that the abilities of the holy Spirit have ceased .. those words are not in the scripture .so we know they come from an external source and not from god .

 

[Alithis]

the entire premise that the gifts (abilities) have ceased is based purely on some ones "unbelief ' .

and to add they the baptism of the holy Spirit is not for today is really, at its core straight from the spirit of anti-christ .
for God IS spirit you can't receive God and not receive his spirit he is one and the same. Jesus is the manifestation of god to us because god is invisible . Spirit means breath .. adam received the breath (spirit ) of god but sin cut us off . essentially sin stranghled the breath out of us .
when we are born again of water (baptism) we are are then made new to receive anew the breath (spirit ) of god once again in being reconciled to him . if we do not receive the Spirit of god we do not have eternal life because the Spirit of god is god ,is life and is eternal .

 

[Alithis]

I can identify with this - somewhat.

Our Church does not believe the gifts stopped. But we also recognize that their appearance is not what so many would identify them to be today.

We also tend to see that it is the very holy ones who have cultivated a walk with God and made every attempt to overcome the flesh that tend to display these gifts.

I hadn't wanted to step on anyone's toes, but I am now also concerned with misrepresenting what I consider to be truth.

I fear everyone will have their own "side" though, and there may not be much fruitful discussion.

interesting .. you start with stating what your "church" believes.. what does the lord Jesus believe ? does he believe the abilities of His own Spirit have ceased .. ? does he heal ? yes .does he deliver ? yes .does he set free from sin .. yes ? does he intercede for us by his spirit ? yes .
the holt Spirit has not ceased to be here among us . but the cessationist would sate it is so .for they would declare God to be powerless to effect anything in regard to Man . for god is spirit and he is the almighty . to say his abilities (gifts ) have ceased they are unwittingly saying god has ceased . they just don't realize it .