The Incomplete Gospel of the modern Church

jgr

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It does not take a rocket scientist to know that God made promises to the Nation of Israel, and different promises to the church.

How do I go about joining the Nation of Israel?
 
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BABerean2

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It does not take a rocket scientist to know that God made promises to the Nation of Israel, and different promises to the church.

Ignore the fulfillment of the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and maybe you can make your doctrine work.

The rocket you are trying to build would never get off the ground...


.
 
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jgr

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When people get born again, they are grafted into the Israel tree.

When people get born again, they are grafted into the Church.

I want to get grafted into the Nation of Israel to get in on all of their Old Testament prophesied promises.

What's the process I should follow?
 
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Douggg

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When you say "Chinese and Italians" do you mean people from a specific racial group, or people who live in a certain geographic location?
There are many different races of people who now live in Italy, and there are Americans who now live in China.

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I mean - Chinese people and Italian people. I don't hold a two peoples doctrine.

I hold a doctrine that the Church and Israel are two distinct entities. I have proved in my post #16 it is 100% totally valid, based on Jesus's words Himself.
 
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jgr

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I mean - Chinese people and Italian people. I don't hold a two peoples doctrine.

I hold a doctrine that the Church and Israel are two distinct entities. I have proved in my post #16 it is 100% totally valid, based on Jesus's words Himself.
We distinguish the Church by her faith and obedience in and to Christ her Leader.

How do we distinguish Israel?
 
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Douggg

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We distinguish the Church by her faith and obedience in and to Christ her Leader.

How do we distinguish Israel?
Read my post #16 regarding Jesus speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29. It is totally obvious that the Church and Israel are distinguished from each other.
 
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BABerean2

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Obviously, the church did not go into captivity among the nations for having trespassed against Jesus.
Obviously, the church believes that Jesus is God, and Lord.
Obviously, Jesus did not hide his face from the church.
Obviously, gathered into their own land is not talking about the church.
Obviously, Jesus has already poured out His spirit on the church.

Obviously, Israel is a distinct entity from the church.


Based on your logic, you and I could not be a part of the Church because we were not there on the Day of Pentecost.

Obviously, you are ignoring the fact that Christ is the fulfillment of Israel in Matthew 1:1.

Obviously, you are ignoring Peter addressing the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 became a part of the New Covenant Church.

Who was Peter speaking to?

Obviously, you are ignoring Paul declaring himself to be an Israelite after his conversion in Romans 11:1-5.

Obviously, you are ignoring Paul's words in Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27.
You are replacing Israel of the promise, with Israel of the flesh.

Obviously, you are replacing the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.

Obviously, you are ignoring James addressing his letter to "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith".

Who do you think James was speaking to?


Your "Two Entities" doctrine does not match up with what is found in scripture, no matter what we call it.

Like all man-made doctrines, it is exposed not by the scripture quoted in post #16, but rather by the scripture that must ignored to make it work.

.
 
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Douggg

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Based on your logic, you and I could not be a part of the Church because we were not there on the Day of Pentecost.
What does the Day of Pentecost got to do with Ezekiel 39:21-29?

Your "Two Entities" doctrine does not match up with what is found in scripture, no matter what we call it.
Stop restating what I state as being the doctrine I hold into something else.

It is not "Two Entities" doctrine either. Two entities could be the Federal Reserve system and the Dallas Cowboys football team.

I hold a doctrine that the Church and Israel are two distinct entities

"the Church and Israel are two distinct entities" doctrine
.

And Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus Himself speaking, proves "the Church and Israel are two distinct entities" doctrine is 100% totally valid, based on Jesus's words Himself.

You cannot misconstrue Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29 is not about the Church, like you are doing with your "proof" passages to claim that the Church and Israel are not two distinct entitites.

It is plane as day that Jesus is speaking about Israel in Ezekiel 39:21-29 is about Israel, and not the Church.
 
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jgr

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Read my post #16 regarding Jesus speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29. It is totally obvious that the Church and Israel are distinguished from each other.

You avoided the question, and post 16 doesn't answer it.

How do we distinguish Israel?

If I or anyone else were to claim to be a Jew, how would you confirm or disprove it?
 
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parousia70

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I hold a doctrine that the Church and Israel are two distinct entities.

At what point did these 3000 people cease being “Israel”?:

Acts 2:41
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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How do I go about joining the Nation of Israel?
:angel:

Israeli citizenship law - Wikipedia

Israeli citizenship law (Hebrew: חוק האזרחות הישראלית‎) regulates who are and can become citizens of Israel.

The law rests on two statutes; the Law of Return enacted in 1950, allowing every Jew to immigrate to Israel, and the Citizenship act of 1952 that defines how Israeli nationality could be acquired and lost. The Law of Return has since been amended twice and the Citizenship act 13 times.[1]

The primary principles of Israeli citizenship is jus sanguinis (citizenship by descent) for Jews and jus soli (citizenship by place of birth) for others.[2]

Apart from citizenship, there is another civil status which can be held by residents of Israel; the permanent residency status (Hebrew: תושב קבע‬‎ toshav keva). It is most common among Syrian citizens of the Golan Heights and among Arab East Jerusalem residents, but it occurs also among other non-citizens.

Israeli citizenship

Israeli citizenship
.
 
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Douggg

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You avoided the question, and post 16 doesn't answer it.

How do we distinguish Israel?

If I or anyone else were to claim to be a Jew, how would you confirm or disprove it?
The question is irrelevant to the doctrine that "the Church and Israel are two distinct entities". God knows who is a Jew or not. God knows who is a Christian or not.

Google a map of Israel. Gog/Magog will invade Israel. Ezekiel 38/39 identifies who is Israel, they are the people who did all those things in Ezekiel 39:21-29 that Jesus Himself speaks about, and who's nation will be invaded by Gog/Magog.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Dispensationalist Dr. John MacArthur does an excellent job of presenting Isaiah chapter 53 to Orthodox Jew Ben Shapiro.

However, because of his belief in the Two Peoples of God doctrine, he failed to present the fulfillment of the New Covenant, and he did not mention Daniel chapter 9.

What he presented was well intended, but an incomplete version of the Gospel found in the Old Testament.

If we compare the Old Testament Gospel to a block of firewood, why would we split it into 3 pieces, and then present only one piece?




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Dr Macarthur actually holds to Jews and gentiles are both now saved under new Covenant, by Jesus, as no Jew cam just claim a relationship with God unless under that New covenant!
 
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Douggg

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Dr Macarthur actually holds to Jews and gentiles are both now saved under new Covenant, by Jesus, as no Jew cam just claim a relationship with God unless under that New covenant!
no Jew can just claim "a right with God" relationship with God unless under the New covenant, because of their sins.
 
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BABerean2

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Dr Macarthur actually holds to Jews and gentiles are both now saved under new Covenant, by Jesus, as no Jew cam just claim a relationship with God unless under that New covenant!

Why then did Dr. MacArthur say that the New Covenant was for Israel in the future, during his interview with Ben Shapiro?

Can you show a video, or transcript of Dr. MacArthur's confirming what you have stated above?

.
 
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BABerean2

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What does the Day of Pentecost got to do with Ezekiel 39:21-29?

Eze 39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
Eze 39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
Eze 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
Eze 39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
Eze 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.
Eze 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
Eze 39:10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
Eze 39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
Eze 39:13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 39:14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
Eze 39:15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.
Eze 39:16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.
Eze 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
Eze 39:18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
(Is God telling the Israelites that they will be cannibals, or is He describing Armageddon?)

Eze 39:19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
Eze 39:20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


The passage above contains the battle of Armageddon, along with Israel being taken into captivity in, and being brought back from captivity in Babylon.

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jgr

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God knows who is a Jew or not. God knows who is a Christian or not.

Yes, God certainly does know.

So do we, because the Holy Spirit through Paul told us:

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Those are Scriptural criteria for distinguishing the Jew.

They also happen to be Scriptural criteria for distinguishing the Christian.
 
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Douggg

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The passage above contains the battle of Armageddon, along with Israel being taken into captivity in, and being brought back from captivity in Babylon.

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Ezekiel 39:17-20 is Armageddon, yes.

In Ezekiel 39:25-27, is Jesus not referring to the Babylon capitivity, but the 2000 year dispersion into the nations.
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Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

Ezekiel 39:28 is after Armageddon, Jesus having returned and fulfilling Matthew 24:31.

Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Why then did Dr. MacArthur say that the New Covenant was for Israel in the future, during his interview with Ben Shapiro?

Can you show a video, or transcript of Dr. MacArthur's confirming what you have stated above?

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He would have stated that while right now any Jew in order to get saved must receive Jesus as their Lord, just as any gentile does, there is coming a time when the Jews shall have the kingdom set up here on earth, and Jesus ruling over them as King and Lord at time of His second coming.
 
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