The House of Israel and The House of Judah

[keras]

Bible2, your posts are generally true and Biblically correct, however you go off track when you reiterate your theory of a forthcoming Mid East war. None of the prophesies predict a conventional or nuke war. In every case, Psalm 83, Gog/Magog, Armageddon and at the end of the Millennium, it is the Lord Himself who carries out His judgement.
I suggest that you look again at what the prophets actually say the Lord does at each of these, so called wars. Note Ezekiel 7:14, referring to the Islamic attack onto Israel. Then Ezekiel 38:22 & Joel 2:20 Gog's destruction, and Armageddon at the Return; Rev 19:21.
Baathism has been history since Saddam was deposed.
It is not a nuke war that will clear the Middle east, but a fire from the sky instigated by God, that will literally fulfil all the graphic prophesies about it. Ezekiel 30:1-5 and Isaiah 30:26 tells us exactly what the Lord will use on that Day. Be warned!; Isaiah 24

 

[Bible2]

keras said in post 81:

In every case, Psalm 83, Gog/Magog, Armageddon and at the end of the Millennium, it is the Lord Himself who carries out His judgement.

Note that if Psalms 83 wasn't referring to a threat against Israel in the time of Asaph (the author of Psalms 83), but to some future event, it may not happen until the Gog/Magog attack on Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39), which won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11). This is the exact opposite of today's situation, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls and is in constant fear of attack. At the beginning of the millennium, all present-day weapons of war throughout the world will be destroyed and they won't be allowed to be remade during the millennium (Micah 4:3-4). That Is why after the millennium, the Gog/Magog armies will employ only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields, and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which, after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies, will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect or cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:10).

The Gog in Revelation 20:8 is the same as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39: an individual human whose personal name is "Gog" (Ezekiel 38:3). He will be the chief leader of a future country which will form somewhere north of Israel (Ezekiel 39:2, Ezekiel 38:15), and which will be called "Magog" (Ezekiel 38:2). It will include at least 2 major cities and/or tribes which will be called "Meshech" and "Tubal" (Ezekiel 38:2). This country could come into existence during the millennium. Gog could be born near the end of the millennium, and he will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog event (Ezekiel 39:11).

Both accounts of the event show that the Gog/Magog armies will ultimately be completely defeated by miraculous fire from heaven (Ezekiel 38:22, Revelation 20:9). While the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-15), nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the great white throne judgment has to happen immediately after that event. For there will be at least 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the end of that event and the great white throne judgment.

Also, the Gog/Magog attack won't have to (as is sometimes claimed) involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could be just a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus' worldwide kingdom, still legally under his rule, just as they had been during the preceding millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2). But after the millennium, they will be deceived by Satan into committing the attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

Also, while the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could suffer a different attack before the millennium, at the start of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which attack could result in Israel's total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17).

And Jerusalem could be attacked and totally defeated in the future at least 3 times before the millennium: once near the start of the future tribulation (Daniel 11:22), then again mid-tribulation (Daniel 11:31), and then at the tribulation's end (Daniel 11:45), right before Jesus' 2nd coming and the start of the millennium (Zechariah 14:2-21).

keras said in post 81:

Then Ezekiel 38:22 & Joel 2:20 Gog's destruction . . .

Regarding Joel 2:20, note that Joel 2:1-27 can refer poetically to a literal locust invasion which destroyed ancient Israel's crops (Joel 2:25) sometime before the Acts 2 day of Pentecost in the 1st century AD (Joel 2:28-29, Acts 2:16-18). For the day of the Lord in Joel 2:1-27 can refer to an ancient day of the Lord, like the ancient day of the Lord in Jeremiah 46:2,10. Both of these ancient days of the Lord can be different than the future day of the Lord (Joel 2:31), which won't start until sometime after (as in only a few years after) the 6th seal (Revelation 6:12, Joel 2:31) of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For the future day of the Lord (Christ) (2 Thessalonians 2:2) won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Joel 2:1 referring only to Zion, the holy mountain, and to the land, can mean that it is referring only to a localized day of the Lord which affected only the ancient Israelites on their land. Joel 2:2 can refer to a huge cloud of literal locusts darkening the skies of Israel. Just as literal ants can be referred to as "a people" (Hebrew: "am": H5971) (Proverbs 30:25), so a huge cloud of devouring locusts can be referred to poetically as "a great people (H5971) and a strong" (Joel 2:2). Joel 2:3b describes the effects of a locust invasion, which can be poetically expressed as being like a devouring fire (Joel 2:3a). Joel 2:4 can describe locusts running along the ground as looking like little horses. Joel 2:5 can poetically describe locusts leaping high, and devouring every plant down even to its stubble. "A strong people set in battle array" (Joel 2:5) brings to mind another poetic description of a locust swarm: "go they forth all of them by bands", i.e. distributed into ranks (Hebrew: "chatsats": H2686) (Proverbs 30:27).

Joel 2:6 can poetically describe the immense grief felt by the ancient Israelites as they witnessed all their crops being devoured by the locust swarm. Joel 2:7 can describe locusts running along the ground and climbing up walls. "They shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks" (Joel 2:7) again brings to mind another poetic description of a literal locust swarm: "go they forth all of them by bands" (Proverbs 30:27). Joel 2:8 can refer to the locusts in the swarm not attacking each other, and to how useless a sword was in fighting against them. Because locusts are small and have an exoskeleton, they can just bounce off a swinging sword as they fly along. Joel 2:9 can refer to locusts running along the ground through a city, climbing up onto the walls of buildings and into windows looking for food anywhere they can.

Joel 2:10 can be poetic hyperbole to express how terrible the locust swarm was to the land of Israel, and how the swarm was so vast that it darkened the skies of Israel completely. The original Hebrew word (erets: H0776) translated as "the earth" (Joel 2:10) can refer to only a local area of land (e.g. Genesis 2:11,13), like how, for example, our word "earthquake" today can refer to only a local event. Joel 2:11 shows that the literal locust swarm wasn't from Satan, fallen angels, or evil nephilim, but was considered by God to be his own "army", as it were (Joel 2:25). Joel 2:20 can mean that God's literal locust "army" (Joel 2:25) came from the north into the land of Israel, and that the swarm was eventually sent off by God into the barren desert, where the locusts died of starvation and their millions of dead bodies rotted in the sun and sent up a great stench. Joel 2:25 shows that it was literal locusts and other plant-destroying insects which God considered to be "my great army which I sent among you".

Joel 2:28-29 shows that the locusts devoured ancient Israel's crops sometime before the Acts 2 day of Pentecost in the 1st century AD. For Joel 2:28-29 began to happen sometime "afterward", sometime after the locust invasion of Joel 2:1-27. And Joel 2:28-29 began to happen at the Acts 2 day of Pentecost (Acts 2:16-18).

keras said in post 81:

Baathism has been history since Saddam was deposed.

Actually, Baathism is alive and well in Iraq (even though it is not yet in power again there), just as it in power in Syria (and note Baathism's stubborn resilience in Syria against all its Arab and Persian foes, just as only the U.S. could defeat Saddam).

keras said in post 81:

Be warned!; Isaiah 24

Note that Isaiah 24 could happen at Jesus' 2nd coming. For the events of "that day" in Isaiah 24:21-22 match the 2nd coming events of Revelation 19:19 to 20:3. And the events of Isaiah 24:23 match the post-tribulation, 2nd coming events of Matthew 24:29-30 and the subsequent millennial reign of Jesus on the earth in Revelation 20:4-6 and Micah 4:1-4.

 

[ebedmelech]

Ebed, 'all authority is given to Jesus', but obviously, He hasn't taken it up yet. Prophecy is clear; one glorious Day Jesus will physically Return and commence His earthly reign.
Sure: to me and to all true Christians, Jesus is King and Ruler of my life, but I can't yet see Him and I continue to pray:...Your Kingdom come on earth....

With your assertion that you are a member of the 144,000, you place yourself in the same category as Millerites and the JW's.

Damascus; Have you been there? It seemed like a thriving city when I visited, yet prophecy clearly says: ...she will be reduced to a heap of ruins, forever desolate.Isaiah 17:1 and Amos 1:3-5...The Lord will send fire onto Damascus...Plus other prophesies that tell of devastation onto Aram. [Syria] Not happened as yet, but it will and your saying it has already is simply a denial of the Prophetic Truth.

Keras...go read Isaiah 10, 2 Kings 15 to the end of the book, 2 Chronicles 28 to the end of the book...and stop trying to push the past future in ignorance.

As for trying to say I'm a "JW or Millerite" that too shows how you read and understand. Let's take the JW's for instance, they think the 144,000 is a literal number in which ONLY 144,000 are there. I've NEVER asserted that. I say the 144,000 is a a number that represents ALL OF GOD'S REDEEMED!

Now...let's show how you miss the point. When you read Revelation 7, and don't read into it you see John only heard the 144,000 numbered...when he turned to look he saw a great multitude which NO MAN could number Keras. So John HEARD...and then he SAW that which what he heard really is.

Very different from JW's...and again...you're reaching, but falling WOEFULLY short.

One more time Keras...Matthew 28:18:
28 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Instead of just answering Keras...do some thinking! After Jesus said this...12 men empowered by the Holy Spirit started the church at Pentecost. They performed GREAT MIRACLES through Jesus! Jesus was is with them every step of the way...and you read Acts and see Jesus doing these things through them.

From those 12 men the gospel has established the church in the world...and you have the GALL to say Jesus isn't reigning???

Notice the "tenses" in what Jesus said...and reconsider how erroneous your statement is:
28 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

What does "has been" mean Keras? You really do ignore scripture in favor of YOUR eschatology.

What does Hebrews 1 say Keras? Have you read it...OR...did you listen to someone tell you what it means???

I think we're done here!

 

[Interplanner]

Likewise "Heaven must recieve Christ..." in Acts 3 is not a tidy way of saying, 'ahh, a prophecy slot solution! He's there; the church is an interruption or after-thought; and Jesus will set up Israel's kingdom after all this.'

Instead it means: Never mind what men think on earth, God is honoring Christ as Lord of heaven and earth until the day God decides to renew all things on earth for him. Restitution means to restore the value to someone from whom it has been taken away. When Christians preach this, it is very alarming to the cultures they are in! It purifies and cleanses.

Again, as a historic illustration, the Reformation thinking musician G. Handel put the the Hallelujah Chorus lyrics 'the kingdom of this world is become the kingdom of our God and of his Christ' from the Rev right after Christ's resurrection, not at the end of time.

 

[shturt678s]

Hmmm...Matthew 28:18:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
How does one have "all authority in heaven and on earth"...and not reign...

But let's take it further to Acts 2:36
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Now...Peter declares that God made Jesus "BOTH LORD AND CHRIST"! Hiw does one gain that title and not reign...

Well...let's go a step further to Ephesians 1:18-22:
18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
That's the apostle Paul, telling us Jesus position upon His resurrection. Now HOW IN THE WORLD can that be, which Paul said over 2000 years ago...and Jesus not be reigning...

Lastly, let's listen to Paul's testimony to Timothy in 1 Timothy 6:13-16:
13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate,
14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Keras, you simply won't let the bible SAY...WHAT IT SAYS...why??? As for the rest of your jesting...that's typical. Anyone in Christ is of the 144,000...whether they know it or not is another thing.

Finally, you Keras, who was looking for Damascus to happen again, when it already has...how can you say anyone should be in question?

Doug, I need to "rethink"??? In light of those passages...that's what you need to do...because you have NO WAY to say anything to refute those passages without torturing them.

Also with your eschatology...you have the gall to say someone nedds to "rethink"...

Kickstarted an old man's day....thank you Godman Jesus.

 

[keras]

I can only hope that all the other readers of this thread will have the common sense and enough Bible knowledge to come to a proper scriptural based conclusion on the issues discussed above. I ask that everyone seriously consider, in the light of the current world situation, what God should do about it and what the prophets say He will do about it.
If you are a Christian and therefore 'children of the light, you should not be in the dark, not taken unawares by the Day that will come upon everyone... 1 Thess 5:5, Luke 21:35

 

[ebedmelech]

I can only hope that all the other readers of this thread will have the common sense and enough Bible knowledge to come to a proper scriptural based conclusion on the issues discussed above. I ask that everyone seriously consider, in the light of the current world situation, what God should do about it and what the prophets say He will do about it.
If you are a Christian and therefore 'children of the light, you should not be in the dark, not taken unawares by the Day that will come upon everyone... 1 Thess 5:5, Luke 21:35

The current world situation is in God's hands Keras...and once again you're fixated on what doesn't matter...your "newspaper eschatology".

 

[Bible2]

Interplanner said in post 84:

Likewise "Heaven must recieve Christ..." in Acts 3 is not a tidy way of saying, 'ahh, a prophecy slot solution! He's there; the church is an interruption or after-thought; and Jesus will set up Israel's kingdom after all this.'

Note that Acts 3:20-21, like Zechariah 14:3-21, is an answer to the question in Acts 1:6.

That is, regarding "restoring the kingdom" to Israel (Acts 1:6), that means restoring the kingdom of Israel in a physical way in which it will bear fruit (Matthew 21:43), which won't happen until Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (Acts 3:20-21, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Presently, the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). But in the future, the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will also be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21), and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

Interplanner said in post 84:

Again, as a historic illustration, the Reformation thinking musician G. Handel put the the Hallelujah Chorus lyrics 'the kingdom of this world is become the kingdom of our God and of his Christ' from the Rev right after Christ's resurrection, not at the end of time.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Regarding the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), note that it doesn't refer to the time of Jesus' resurrection. Instead, Revelation 11:15 refers to the future point in time (Revelation 4:1b) when Jesus will take ultimate, legal, physical authority over the earth, away from Satan (cf. Luke 4:5-7) and Satan's fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12), and away from the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-18, cf. Revelation 12:9) and the Antichrist's 10 kings (Revelation 17:12-13). It won't be until a little later that Jesus will take de facto, physical control of the earth at his 2nd coming and during the subsequent millennium (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).

Jesus' 2nd coming won't (as is sometimes claimed) occur immediately after the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet and the declaration of the legal replacement of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5 year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 12:6,14) with Jesus' reign (Revelation 11:15). For a "time" (Revelation 11:18) can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14). It is like if someone said: "It is time to sell this house"; this doesn't mean that it will get sold immediately. The only part of Revelation 11:18 which will happen immediately after the 7th trumpet sounds is "thy wrath is come". For the plagues of the vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).

So the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), even though it will be the last trumpet to sound during the tribulation, won't be the church's-resurrection "last trump" of 1 Corinthians 15:52. The latter won't sound until after the tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), which won't occur until Revelation 19, and which is when the church will be physically resurrected (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

Before the 2nd coming, the tribulation's final, Revelation 16 stage could last for 75 days. For the 1st vial in Revelation 16 could be poured out immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, which 1,260 days could begin when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36). And Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the setting up of the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). An analogy for the possible 75-day vials-delay between Jesus taking legal possession of the earth (Revelation 11:15) and his return to take de facto, physical possession of it (Revelation chapters 19-20) would be someone in New York legally inheriting a house in California, 75 days before he moves there to live in that house.

At Jesus' 2nd coming, he will physically resurrect and judge only the church (1 Corinthians 15:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Psalms 50:3-6, cf. Mark 13:27), and then he will marry the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12). Then Revelation 19:11-21 will occur. So both the resurrection and the rewarding of the church spoken of in Revelation 11:18, as well as the destroying of the destroyers of the earth spoken of in Revelation 11:18, could occur 75 days after the 7th trumpet's sounding. And because a "time" can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14), this would still be well within the "time" referred to in Revelation 11:18.

Everyone not physically resurrected and judged at Jesus' 2nd coming won't be physically resurrected and judged until Revelation 20:11-15, which won't occur until sometime after the returned Jesus and the physically resurrected church have reigned on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Both resurrections and judgments can still occur within Revelation 11:18's "time". For the original Greek word (kairos: G2540) translated there as "time" can refer to even quite a long period. For example, the same Greek word is used in 2 Corinthians 6:2 to refer to the "time" of people getting saved, which has been going on for thousands of years.

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 87:

The current world situation is in God's hands Keras...and once again you're fixated on what doesn't matter...your "newspaper eschatology".

Note that Christian futurism considers today's news articles regarding such things as geopolitics and technology in order to help believers consider different ways for how exactly the never-fulfilled, yet still understandable, and almost entirely literal, highly-detailed prophecies in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 might be fulfilled in our future. For example, Christians at any time in the past could understand that Revelation 6:4-8 refers to a horrible, literal war which will start the tribulation, and which, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up killing 1/4 of the world. They could understand this without having to know, for example, what nation will start the war, or what weapons will be employed in the war. What Christian futurism does is consider these things.

For another example, Christians at any time in the past could understand that Revelation 13:14-15 refers to a literal image (Greek: "eikon", something made in the likeness) of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), which will appear to be alive, which will speak, and which people will have to worship or be killed. Christians in the past could understand this without having to know, for example, whether the image will be 2-dimensional or 3-dimensional (or both), or what it will be made of, or how it will be made to speak and appear to be alive. What Christian futurism does is consider these things.

 

[keras]

Very good, Bible2, very scriptural responses to those who disbelieve futurism. We can see how those who deny the truth of testing times ahead, get upset and resort to personal denigration, they twist what we say and probably don't bother to read your posts properly. Bad luck for them.
Your pointing out of Luke 4:6 totally refutes all who believe the false idea that the Kingdom of Jesus is already here.
But I still disagree with you on the nature, extent and timing of the forthcoming, so called wars. All will be revealed soon enough, I reckon.

 

[ebedmelech]

Very good, Bible2, very scriptural responses to those who disbelieve futurism. We can see how those who deny the truth of testing times ahead, get upset and resort to personal denigration, they twist what we say and probably don't bother to read your posts properly. Bad luck for them.
Your pointing out of Luke 4:6 totally refutes all who believe the false idea that the Kingdom of Jesus is already here.
But I still disagree with you on the nature, extent and timing of the forthcoming, so called wars. All will be revealed soon enough, I reckon.

That's why NOTHING you as well as Bible2, expect is happening Keras! How can we be a "royal priesthood" with no kingdom???

Here's a clue to you that Jesus gave the Pharisees in Matthew 22:41-45:
41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:
42 “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They *said to Him, “The son of David.”
43 He *said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying,
44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Until I put Your enemies beneath Your feet”’?
45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”
46 No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.

Now...if you would read Hebrews 1 perhaps you *might* get a clue of what's happening...and Bible2 also...

Here's another clue from Paul...Romans 14:17:
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

What kingdom is that about Keras...

 

[Interplanner]

I Cor 15:25 continues the doctrine established in Acts 2, 3, Eph 1: that Christ reigns now until the Father destroys all other dominion and power (notice that implies they are in competition...).

 

[Danoh]

You are such a kind heart, Danoh. How does a fifth-grader interpret these verses?

"And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ." -- 2Cor 3:13-14​

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." -- John 5:39-40​

Feel free to ask a fifth grader, if you don't know, Danoh.


.

That 1st passage IS about those Jews PAUL addressed in HIS day, THIS SIDE of HIS ministry AFTER Christ was PROVEN to have been the Christ by His resurrection from th the dead, Rom. 1.

How that they these Jews had continued as willfully blind, as those Christ was dealing with in HIS day, per that 2nd passage.

Paul deals with the issue addressed in that 2nd passage, in Romans 10; where he recalls Moses' "say not in thy heart..."

The issue in CHRIST'S Day had been He was Who Moses and the prophets did say should come, John 1.

The twp passages you cited above are dealing with same heart.issue, but the 1st one you cited is dealing with this issue AFTER His death, burial, and resurrection, while the latter one you cited is dealing with issues having to do with believing on Him BEFORE He died, etc., there, in Matt. thru John.

You consistently do that - mix passages that are the same in principle that you right off conclude are the same in content.

Of course, you're the only one on here who does that; others do likewise as to "looks the same, must be the same" notion.

 

[Interplanner]

The issue of Jn 5 was the same as those of Paul's ministry.

Danoh, your 2nd paragraph here is one incoherent sentence after another; I mean grammar not theology. Could you please take 5 deep breaths and try again before posting. Can you get someone to read aloud to before posting. Thanks.

 

[Rev20]

That 1st passage IS about those Jews PAUL addressed in HIS day, THIS SIDE of HIS ministry AFTER Christ was PROVEN to have been the Christ by His resurrection from th the dead, Rom. 1.

How that they these Jews had continued as willfully blind, as those Christ was dealing with in HIS day, per that 2nd passage.

Paul deals with the issue addressed in that 2nd passage, in Romans 10; where he recalls Moses' "say not in thy heart..."

The issue in CHRIST'S Day had been He was Who Moses and the prophets did say should come, John 1.

The twp passages you cited above are dealing with same heart.issue, but the 1st one you cited is dealing with this issue AFTER His death, burial, and resurrection, while the latter one you cited is dealing with issues having to do with believing on Him BEFORE He died, etc., there, in Matt. thru John.

You consistently do that - mix passages that are the same in principle that you right off conclude are the same in content.

Of course, you're the only one on here who does that; others do likewise as to "looks the same, must be the same" notion.

That is not what those verses say, Danoh. Try again without spiritualizing them.


.

 

[riverrat]

The issue of Jn 5 was the same as those of Paul's ministry.

Danoh, your 2nd paragraph here is one incoherent sentence after another; I mean grammar not theology. Could you please take 5 deep breaths and try again before posting. Can you get someone to read aloud to before posting. Thanks.

Get the plank out of your own eye!

 

[Danoh]

You are such a kind heart, Danoh. How does a fifth-grader interpret these verses?

"And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ." -- 2Cor 3:13-14​

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." -- John 5:39-40​

Feel free to ask a fifth grader, if you don't know, Danoh.


.

That 1st passage IS about those Jews PAUL addressed in HIS day, THIS SIDE of Paul's ministry AFTER Christ was PROVEN to have been the Christ by His resurrection from th the dead, Rom. 1.

That passage is the issue of how that those Jews this side of Paul's ministry had continued as willfully blind as those Christ was dealing with in HIS day, per that 2nd passage.

Paul deals with the issue addressed in that 2nd passage, in Romans 10; where he recalls Moses' "say not in thy heart..."

The issue in CHRIST'S Day had been that He was He Whom Moses and the prophets did say should come, John 1.

The two passages you cited above are dealing with same HEART issue, but the 1st one of the two passages you cited is dealing with this HEART issue AFTER Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, while the latter passage you cited is dealing with this HEART issue having to do with believing on Him BEFORE He died, simply as their Promised Messiah, etc., there, in Matt. thru John.

You consistently do that - you mix passages that are the same in principle that you right off conclude are the same in context.

Of course, you're not the only one on here who does that; others do likewise as to this "looks the same, must be the same" principle you and yours follow.

 

[Interplanner]

No, Danoh,
in the Gospels, Jesus is shown explaining that his death is atonement, exodus and a ransom for sin before it happens. Both Jesus and Paul were saying the same thing, that there was blindness about the same thing.

This comes to a concise head in the exchange in Jn 12:34. When Christ says he is "light" he means that the Gospel view of the whole business is the proper one.

Now, let's be practical. There is the lapsing problem. If you're told that the death of Christ is a necessary event before it happens, it is a very awkward place to be. You know this thing is going to happen and you can't do anything about it. I believe this is why Paul appears to sound different speaking afterwards, I Cor 2. The death and resurrection had to happen and they define everything and there is not turning back the clock; the appeal to Israel now (Paul's now) is for it to be missionaries of its message.

 

[n2thelight]

God’s Promises to Abraham

Genesis 12:1-2 | God promises Abraham that his descendants will become a great nation.

Genesis 17:1-6 | God promises Abraham will be a father of many nations, not just one.

Genesis 22:16-18 | God promises that the birthright nations among Abraham’s descendants will possess the gates (access points) of their enemies.

Genesis 26:3-5 | God promises the birthright nations will multiply as the stars of heaven.

Genesis 27:26-29 | God promises the birthright nations will become wealthy and rule over other nations.

Genesis 28:13-14 | God promises that the birthright nations will spread worldwide.

Genesis 35:11 | God promises that the birthright nations will become “a nation and a company of nations.”

Take an objective look at these promises in the Bible. If you believe that God exists, the Bible is His Word, and that He keeps His promises, you should look for Abraham’s descendants to appear prominently in history.

You should be able to see them take shape at some point as one wealthy, powerful nation and as a group of nations—a superpower and a commonwealth, you might say.

Has there ever been a people that grew into a nation that developed an extremely wealthy economy, spread around the world, fielded a super-powerful military, exerted influence over its enemies and controlled the choke points of the world?

Has there ever been a nation that fits all of these descriptions and at the same time was closely related to a commonwealth or “company of nations”?

There’s only one: the United States of America. America has been the world’s greatest singular superpower, and it came directly from the world’s greatest empire: Britain. The British Empire, and later the United States, projected power all around the world and controlled almost every important sea gate/trade route in the world.

No other nation and empire fulfill those promises so specifically and fully. But this is just one undeniable proof that the modern descendants of ancient Israel are America and Britain!


Modern Israel

The Bible records that Abraham’s children flourished into the 10-tribe nation of Israel. In Genesis 48, Abraham’s grandson Jacob—whom God renamed Israel—specifically assigned his name to Ephraim and Manasseh, saying that one of these descendants would become a “great” people (the United States), and that the other would become a “multitude of nations” (Great Britain).

If the American and British people aren’t the modern Israelites—a populous, widespread, multinational, wealthy, powerful nation and company of nations—then no one else has fulfilled or is fulfilling those promises God made. And if those promises failed, then the Bible is irrelevant and its many prophecies about Abraham’s modern descendants are pointless.

But if God’s biblical promises are true, those hundreds of prophecies apply right now.

This still leaves many questions: How did the Israelites migrate from the Middle East to the British Isles and North America? How did they lose their identity? Why did it take so long for God to fulfill those promises? These are great questions, deserving great answers and further proof.
Whether you realize it or not, the answers to those questions link directly to this urgent question: Why is America declining? The Bible answers that question! It describes exactly what is happening to the modern descendants of Abraham. Knowing America’s biblical identity unlocks countless biblical passages that explain exactly why the United States is falling so dramatically.

If there is a God, and if the Bible is His Word, then America must be modern-day Israel. It is the only nation in history that fits God’s detailed prophecies. It’s up to you to prove this exceptional truth for yourself.

https://www.thetrumpet.com/article/11893.32229.0.0/united-states/americas-lost-identity


One must seperate Israel from Judah,can't understand how people seem to not do this........

 

[clemenslee]

I know this is a old thread, but I can't help but notice, maybe I overlooked it. Hosea was never quoted as proof of the separation as well as what was to become of the so called lost tribes (10 tribes/Israel). There seems to be a lot of confusion as them actually being lost. To make clear I absolutely agree that there are 2 separate houses, and both make up the whole house of Israel. You cannot lump all 12 tribes together as being the Jews.

The problem I think that many who refute the Idea that Israel (10 tribes) are NOT lost is because they are looking for them to still be known by NAME as ISRAEL. This, I think is where the confusion lies. We must understand that the 10 tribes after they we scattered in the NATIONS that they were NO LONGER KNOWN as ISRAEL. After they were taken and dispersed by the Assyrians their Identity as Gods People, as having the name Israel was lost to history, but God said that, in the place that they were scattered to, They would have a NEW NAME, SONS OF THE LIVING GOD! Lets look at Hosea to lay this out.

1 The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel. (The Lord himself referred to them as separate houses, You cannot say Judah (Jews) and Israel (Hebrews are the same) Together they do make up the WHOLE HOUSE. I will take what the Lord says not man!)

2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms (The Whole House of Israel) and children of whoredoms (Judah and Israel): for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.

3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.

4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel (Means to Scatter); for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel (Scatter) upon the house of Jehu (Judah), and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel (10 Tribes/Jezreel).

5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel (The 10 Tribes) in the valley of Jezreel (Scatter).

6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah (Means Not having Mercy): for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel (10 Tribes); but I will utterly take them away (Scatter them through the Nations).

7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah (God never Divorced Judah, They were never lost to history), and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah (10 tribes), she conceived, and bare a son.

9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi (Means Not my People): for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea (The 10 tribes will not be a few in number where they are scattered to, So you have to look for a Large body of people, The Jews have never been that large in number), which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people (Loammi, 10 Tribes), there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. (Israel the 10 Tribes lost their Identity in carrying the NAME ISRAEL, but now have a NEW NAME, SONS OF THE LIVING GOD)

The 10 Lost Tribes are no longer known as Israel by name, but now are known as Sons of the Living God. Who is that? It is none other than the NATIONS (Gentile/Goyim). Who are Sons of the Living God? None other than Christians, Who may or may not be direct descendants of the Tribes of Israel! Now that being said, do not accuse me of a replacement theology, I am in no way saying that the Whole Nation of Israel All tribes are replaced by the Church or vice versa, They are simply one and the same niether one replacing the other. Its what they became! Sons of the Living God! They became a people that had NO Mercy of God, just like the Nations that they were scattered to, To having obtained Mercy through the Blood of Christ! Who is the True Israel! No other Nations brought the Gospel to the entire world like the Western Nations.

If you can understand this, then you will truly know what it means when Paul said in Romans 11:11 - 11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Whose fall is Paul referring to? Its his kinsman - Who are his kinsman (Paul was a Jew of Judah/Benjamine). By the fall of the Jews for rejecting Christ Salvation came to the Gentiles. Who are the Gentiles? The Nations who did not have any Mercy from God - What house of Israel was scattered and became PART of the Nations not having obtained Mercy? None other than the 10 Lost Tribes. Now you should know who the LOST SHEEP are! Now God will use the NATIONS/10 TRIBES to Provoke JUDAH to envy. Because of their Rebellion, God counted them also in disbelief. They didn't lose their Identity as Israel but They also need the Mercy of God for Salvation, which is through the Blood of Christ.

What confusion this topic has brought to the Church to divide and Conquer, especially concerning these Last Days. The entire Bible has always been about Gods People Israel and the Mending together of a Family Fued! When the Truth is, that we want to in our Humanistic desires say who can and cannot be apart of the Glorious Royal Family Israel Which is Christ and separate the two. We get things Like the Church will be raptured and the Jews will be left behind to go through the Tribulation. What nonsense. When will we realize that the house of Judah are our Kinsman whether or not you are a direct blood line or not. That we are all one under true Israel which is Christ! God set the record straight That he can make the body of Israel consist of whom every he wants!