The Holy Spirit was Given When?

[1whirlwind]

In [John 20], when Jesus had risen He gave the Holy Spirit to those He breathed on. But then, in [Acts 1] there appears to be a different version for they were told to "wait for the promise." Is this a contradiction or...is there more to the story?


I think it's answered here....

Acts 1:2-3 Until the day in which He was taken up, after that He through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom He had chosen: To whom also He shewed Himself alive after His passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

That shows that the Holy Spirit was already given to the apostles...it was given when He breathed on them.....

John 20:20-23 And when He had so said, He shewed unto them His hands and His side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as My Father hath sent Me, even so send I you. And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
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So, they had the Holy Spirit from that point and yet we read....
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Acts 1:4-5 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, "which," saith He, "ye have heard of Me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

That was after "He breathed on them," and they received His Spirit so I ask...is He addressing the apostles here or others?
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Acts 1:7-8 And He said unto them, "It is not for you to know the times or the season, which the Father hath put in His own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

He was then "taken up" and received by "a cloud." Those He was speaking to "looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up," and two men (angels) said....
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Acts 1:11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."

Those "men of Galilee" returned to Jerusalem from Olivet and "went up into an upper room." Who did they meet? "Where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James." [1:13] Many of the apostles, those He had previously given the Holy Spirit to, were already in that room. So, these "men of Galilee," which means men of the "circuit," weren't the eleven He breathed on when He was first glorified.
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These men were not the apostles but were disciples of Christ, as are we. He was not only speaking to them but to us when He said.....
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1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

Jesus "breathed" on His disciples to give them the Holy Spirit...as God breathed spiritual life into Adam, as God breathes His Spirit into us and we become...spiritually alive!
​

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

[Frogster]

In [John 20], when Jesus had risen He gave the Holy Spirit to those He breathed on. But then, in [Acts 1] there appears to be a different version for they were told to "wait for the promise." Is this a contradiction or...is there more to the story?


I think it's answered here....

Acts 1:2-3 Until the day in which He was taken up, after that He through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom He had chosen: To whom also He shewed Himself alive after His passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

That shows that the Holy Spirit was already given to the apostles...it was given when He breathed on them.....

John 20:20-23 And when He had so said, He shewed unto them His hands and His side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as My Father hath sent Me, even so send I you. And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
​

So, they had the Holy Spirit from that point and yet we read....
​

Acts 1:4-5 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, "which," saith He, "ye have heard of Me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

That was after "He breathed on them," and they received His Spirit so I ask...is He addressing the apostles here or others?
​

Acts 1:7-8 And He said unto them, "It is not for you to know the times or the season, which the Father hath put in His own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

He was then "taken up" and received by "a cloud." Those He was speaking to "looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up," and two men (angels) said....
​

Acts 1:11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."

Those "men of Galilee" returned to Jerusalem from Olivet and "went up into an upper room." Who did they meet? "Where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James." [1:13] Many of the apostles, those He had previously given the Holy Spirit to, were already in that room. So, these "men of Galilee," which means men of the "circuit," weren't the twelve He breathed on when He was first glorified.
​

These men were not the apostles but were disciples of Christ, as are we. He was not only speaking to them but to us when He said.....
​

1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

Jesus "breathed" on His disciples to give them the Holy Spirit...as God breathed spiritual life into Adam, as God breathes His Spirit into us and we become...spiritually alive!
​

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

John 7: 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Curious about what you think of the fact of the glorification part.To me,that seems to be a line of demarcation.

 

[Frogster]

More on glorification. Interesting thread.

Acts 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Have you ever noticed that God does three things, He formed the man, made the woman and created he THEM calling their name Adam in the day they were "created" as Genesis Chapter 5:2 (and that after the blood of Abel) is where this is recalled? I believe thats where even Paulcaught the similitude of Christ in Adam where it shows no difference between male and female there as there was prior (if you take a look at that).

I like this too (concerning a certain generation) which "shall be" created (but not as of yet)

Psalm 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the LORD.


Psalm 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

And He breathed on them

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Though as Adam is FORMED first (from the dust) THEN Eve so also is Christ (after the patern found in Adam FORMED IN US (who are also the dust) or ground of Him.

Its the way he words things, ever notice that what is FORMED is not included in the seventh? Only what is made and created are shown there, formed pertains to the first man only (all in Adam Die) all in Christ made alive. first man second man thing going on there as I would regard it.

 

[Frogster]

As far as the breathing on them,could be Jesus was showing the Holy Spirit,will trump the pagan ritual of fanning,where they would actually breath on the people.They were called Flamens..breathers,or "bestowers of the spirit".

 

[1whirlwind]

John 7: 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Curious about what you think of the fact of the glorification part.To me,that seems to be a line of demarcation.

He was still with them...not yet crucified...in John 7. When He breathed on them, John 20, it was after He was risen. He was glorified. So yes, that is the "line of demarcation."

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you.


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[Fireinfolding]

Jerm 31:22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

I like that one too, a new thing

 

[1whirlwind]

Jerm 31:22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

I like that one too, a new thing

Hi there

What does part of that verse mean to you...a woman shall compass a man?



.

 

[Frogster]

He was still with them...not yet crucified...in John 7. When He breathed on them, John 20, it was after He was risen. He was glorified. So yes, that is the "line of demarcation."

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you.


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Yes,I am familiar with John 20.I was just wondering why you think the glorification was then?

Acts 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Hi there

What does part of that verse mean to you...a woman shall compass a man?



.

Jesus here speaking to his male disciples (here) compares them to a woman

John 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

Jerm 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

and Just as it speaks of Christ in them, they travail also with others AGAIN till Christ be formed in them

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Kings can breast feed

Isaiah 60:16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thoushalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

1Cr 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Meat

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

 

[1whirlwind]

Yes,I am familiar with John 20.I was just wondering why you think the glorification was then?

Acts 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

When was Christ glorified?

John 12:16 These things understood not His disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of Him, and that they had done these things unto Him.


John 13:23-24 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

13:26-27 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when He had dipped the sop, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

13:30-32 He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night. Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in Him. If God be glorified in Him, God shall also glorify Him in Himself, and shall straightway glorify Him.


John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

17:4-5,10 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine own Self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.(10) And all Mine are Thine, and Thine are Mine; and I am glorified in them.


From those I understand that He was glorified upon His crucifixion, when He said...."It is finished," and "gave up the ghost."


.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yeah heres a few too Whirlwind

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

He answers proverbs, WHO hath ascended, or descended, what is His name or the name of His Son... "declared to be" the Son of God by the above.

 

[Emmy]

Dear 1whirlwind. Luke tells that when Jesus was ready to go back to the Father, the disciples were watching. Jesus told them: " dont`t be sad, I am going back to the Father, and we will send the Holy Spirit to carry on my work on Earth." The Holy Spirit is in the world, and He will teach and help us. I believe it is all a question of ASKING, Jesus told us to ask and we will be answered, Jesus also told us, that He is knocking at the door of our hearts, waiting to be invited to come in, and the Holy Spirit would not deny His Help and Guidance, if we asked Him for it. I myself, have glady invited Jesus into my heart. I also take my prayers to Jesus, and I know that He will plead them to God, Jesus is our Intercessor. God-Father, God-Son and God-Holy-Spirit, three Beings but ONE great God. All working together to redeem all Mankind. I say this with great and glorious AWE, whirlwind. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[Seeking Him]

As far as the breathing on them,could be Jesus was showing the Holy Spirit,will trump the pagan ritual of fanning,where they would actually breath on the people.They were called Flamens..breathers,or "bestowers of the spirit".

That is an interesting fact. There were probably alot of pagan rituals that the Jewish people were aware of.

 

[NorrinRadd]

As far as the breathing on them,could be Jesus was showing the Holy Spirit,will trump the pagan ritual of fanning,where they would actually breath on the people.They were called Flamens..breathers,or "bestowers of the spirit".

Interesting. But personally, I lean toward interpreting John's words in any one place in the context of the whole of his writings, and beyond that in the context of the Hebrew Scriptures. Since he of all the Evangelists most *explicitly* stated the deity of Christ, I take the Spirit-breathing of John 20 as a "call-back" to the original quickening of Adam. I also see it and the "born of the Spirit" stuff in John 3 as related to each other, to the "new spirit" stuff in Eze. 36, and the vivification of the "dry bones" in Eze. 37.

 

[NorrinRadd]

In [John 20], when Jesus had risen He gave the Holy Spirit to those He breathed on. But then, in [Acts 1] there appears to be a different version for they were told to "wait for the promise." Is this a contradiction or...is there more to the story? ...

I think the crux of the matter is that we run into trouble when we try to too tightly harmonize different writers and speakers of Scripture.

John the Apostle/Evangelist emphasized the regenerative, life-imparting role of the Spirit, but also recognized other aspects.

Luke emphasized the prophetic empowerment role of the Spirit, and applied that role to both the terms "baptize in the Spirit" and "receive the Spirit," a likely exception being Luke 3, where he quotes John the Baptist.

John the Baptist used the expression, "baptize in the Spirit" to refer to regeneration.

Paul used the expression, "baptized in the Spirit" to refer to the event which places us into the body of Christ, i.e. regeneration.