The history of the origins of Christmas and St. Nicholas

[prodromos]

Although, having said that, the Incarnation itself happened 9 months before Christmas.

Big feast day in the Orthodox Church. It aways struck me as odd that it wasn't celebrated when I was evangelical.

 

[Radagast]

Big feast day in the Orthodox Church. It aways struck me as odd that it wasn't celebrated when I was evangelical.

I consider that omission very sad, myself.

 

[Ronald]

Actually, that date was not a pagan holiday. It was picked because it was 9 months after the traditional date for Gabriel visiting Mary.

There was a pagan holiday in December, but it was on a different day.

Gabriel visited Mary in March? I missed that, where did you get that info?

 

[Blade]

What some man/woman group did on a day that a GOD made not them.. matters not. If we want we can find some really awful thing some man did on almost if not any day of year.

What Christmas is to you.. I can't speak to that. For me.. A baby was born.. and I KNOW for FACT.. all HEAVEN... you want to talk about a party! WOW.. They never stopped.. so.. I am happen every day of the year.. this GOD became man. And.. I have no problem telling my Father how happy we are on Dec 25th. yeah.. Hes really smart.. He knows.. my heart. He knows.. I have no clue what day it really was.. I think Sept maybe. And.. He knows.. as far as I can tell did they ever celibate His birth? Or birthdays? I dont follow them.. they are not my God.. He is... so.. if I was around those that did nothing on that day.. I would do nothing. When I got home.. I would..

 

[~Anastasia~]

I consider that omission very sad, myself.

Yes, a lot is missing for many denominations - and it is very sad ...

 

[HARK!]

The birth of Jesus is the story behind Christmas. All else is invention.

...and we know that Yahshua was not born on Dec 25.

 

[HARK!]

I find it curious that there are other denominations and off-shoots of Christianity such as the Jehovah's Witnesses who don't celebrate Christmas because they see it as a worldly holiday. Because of its pagan origins, there is no doubt that Christmas has worldly origins. I have also seen a film and read about the Puritans or the Pilgrims not celebrating Christmas because of their own religious beliefs.

(CLV) Jer 10:2
Thus says Yahweh: The way of the nations, do not learn, And by the signs of the heavens, do not be dismayed, Though the nations are being dismayed by them.

(CLV) Jer 10:3
Indeed concerning the statutes of the peoples, it all is vanity, For one cuts it down, a tree from the wildwood, The work of an artificer's hands with an adz;

(CLV) Jer 10:4
With silver and with gold he makes it lovely; With nails and with hammers they fasten it, so that it cannot quaver.

New Living Translation
"Do not worship the LORD your God in the way these pagan peoples worship their gods.

 

[HARK!]

How did a round man wearing red and often times smoking a pipe being ridden by eight reindeer have anything to do with a holy man from the Old World?

 

[~Anastasia~]

View attachment 215252

Yes and atheists use just these sorts of things to "prove" that the Incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ Himself supposedly has just such "pagan origins".

 

[~Anastasia~]

This is Saint Nicholas, Bishop of Myra

Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia



No reindeer, no evergreen tree.

 

[FireDragon76]

Christmas does not have pagan origins. I believe it was reckoned by the early church using esoteric reasoning common at the time. And it just happened to land near the Roman holiday of Saturnalia.

The early Church actually emphasized the Epiphany, or rather Theophany, when Christ was revealed publicly as the Son of God and his ministry began.

I watched an interesting sermon once by Bishop Jack Spong where he talked about how all the major Christian holy days corresponding to Jewish ones, as their fulfillment. Christmas corresponds to Hanukkah, and carries through the symbolism of the miracle of light that happened in the temple, to Jesus, the Light of the World.

Legend is among Germans that Luther invented the Christmas tree. He was walking home once during a dark winter night, and he saw a mirage where the stars were immersed in the trees. Transfixed by the beauty, he went home and had his family set up a tree with candles on it, and that is where the practice of a lighted tree is said to have come from as a Christmas tradition.

This may be true, as for centuries the Christmas Tree in Germany was associated more with Lutherans than Catholics. The Christmas Tree did not exist in England or the US until the Victorian era, when the Hanover dynasty brought it over with them.

 

[FireDragon76]

The real Santa Claus was not only generous, but like many Greek stereotypes, hot tempered and zealous. He hit a supporter of Arius at the Council of Nicea and was censored by the Council and removed for a period.

A skull believed to belong to him by some also had evidence of a broken nose. He was also probably short and not tall.

 

[DavidFirth]

Nicholas of Myra was a Christian Bishop in Asia Minor that lived in the late third and early fourth century. He was one of the attendees at the Council of Nicaea, so had a hand in shaping the Nicene Creed.

He reportedly placed money in the stockings of poor girls that had been left to dry overnight, so that they could pay their dowries.

He was a very popular saint, and due to his gift-giving, came to be associated with such a tradition. This was on 6 December, his feast day.
Now the Magi brought gifts to Jesus, traditionally celebrated on Epiphany (6 January) which is why gifts are often given on this date in many countries, like Russia. These two usages got confused in the popular imagination.

Mediaeval Christmas ballooned into a 12 day feast, as in the 12 days of Christmas of the song, from 25 December (Christmas day) to 6 January (Epiphany). Gift-giving thus migrated from the end of Christmas to its start. Thus Nicholas found himself giving gifts on Christmas.

Now the name Santa Claus is derived from the Dutch for Saint Nicholas, Sinter Klaas, which is itself a corruption and folk etymology from Saint Nicolaus.

I am sure the venerable old saint is spinning in his reliquary about the commercialisation of Christmas, but I doubt he would be opposed to the gift-giving or family-centredness of the modern holiday.

Very, very informative. Do you consent to me sending that post to my family members via text message?

 

[DavidFirth]

The JWs are not Christian. They don't believe that God became Incarnate and was born as a human baby. So of course Christmas is not so special to them.

Although, having said that, the Incarnation itself happened 9 months before Christmas.

That's very sad. So JWs do not believe Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross for our sins? Do you know what they do think about Him?

 

[Radagast]

This is Saint Nicholas, Bishop of Smyrna

Of Myra, actually (Acts 27:5).

 

[RadiantGrace]

No one knows for sure when Jesus was born - but it could be 12/25. That was a pagan holiday and by celebrating that day, it covered over the darkness with light. But it doesn't matter when He was born. we celebrate it on that day.

There actually wasn't a pagan holiday on December 25th. That's just made up but said so many times people believe it. Christmas was actually celebrated on different dates. The celebration of the birth of Christ was moved to December 25th, making it nine months after the celebration of the conception.

 

[RadiantGrace]

Gabriel visited Mary in March? I missed that, where did you get that info?

Before Christmas was moved to December 25th, Christians celebrated the conception on March 25th. That doesn't mean Jesus was conceived on March 25th.

 

[Radagast]

Before Christmas was moved to December 25th, Christians celebrated the conception on March 25th. That doesn't mean Jesus was conceived on March 25th.

It came partly from a belief that the Annunciation happened on the same day of the year as Good Friday, which was believed to have been 25 March.

 

[Radagast]

Christmas was actually celebrated on different dates. The celebration of the birth of Christ was moved to December 25th, making it nine months after the celebration of the conception.

It wasn't moved; there was a consensus to standardise on 25 December.

 

[HARK!]

Yes and atheists use just these sorts of things to "prove" that the Incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ Himself supposedly has just such "pagan origins".

I agree. It's egregious what adopting these Pagan traditions has done for the faith.

My purpose is not to shine light on those who reject Yahweh's truth. My purpose is to shine light for those who seek Yahweh's truth.

Yahshua calls us to break from the traditions of men, in obedience to Yahweh.