The Historical Jesus...

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The Virgin Birth (Redrafted)


The Christian concept of the virgin birth is derived solely from a mis-translation of a Hebrew word into Greek. The word ‘almah, from the original oracle (Isaiah 7:14) simply means, "young woman" (i.e. any nubile young woman). The Septuagint incorrectly translates this Hebrew word by the Greek word, παρθενος (virgin). Thus the New Testament writers' claim (Matthew 1: 22-23) for a fulfillment of prophecy is inaccurate.
The Hebrew language has a specific word for virgin, bethulah, but Isaiah does not employ it.

In its historical context, the Isaianic passage may be seen as a reaction to completely contemporary events. During a time of trouble and the threat of foreign invasion, the prophet urged King Ahaz to ask Yahweh for a sign and when he refused to do so, told him that Yahweh would give him a sign. This was to be the birth of a child to an anonymous young woman.
The child was to be named, Immanuel. (God is with us) and would grow up to experience the privations resulting from the Assyrian invasion of Judah by Tiglath-Pileser III, predicted by the prophet. The primary reference of the sign was to the original situation in which it was given.

The idea of the historical personage, Jesus of Nazareth (an ascetic Galilean Jewish teacher of the early 1st Century) as an anthropomorphic deity is ultimately derived from Ancient Near Eastern concepts of sacral kingship via later Hellenistic antecedents. Such notions were (and still remain) totally alien to Judaic belief and practice.
The Hellenistic-Roman world had many saviour gods and goddesses depicted in human form. Christian theology added yet another one - conflated and identified with an actual human being and defined within the linguistic terminology of concepts derived from pre-existent, Hellenistic/Jewish belief systems.

Moreover, the major factor in the popularity and growth of the (later) cult of the Virgin Mary, which must be taken into account, was the prevailing deep and wide-spread need for a female object of worship - for a Mother Goddess. Considering the antiquity and pervasion of these Goddess cults throughout the Mediterranean world and the Ancient Near East, it is not surprising that the developing Christian religion found itself unable to suppress such deeply entrenched and manifestly popular devotion.


The current existence of many myths of the divine birth of various ancient heroes such as Herakles, Alexander the Great and others is well attested and must have played an important part in the development of the idea of the virgin birth of Jesus. Pagan myths are very likely to have influenced the New Testament authors in a subtle but no less derivative way. As the ancient Hebrew writers drew on earlier Mesopotamian and Canaanite mythology when describing divine activity in creation, so the related question of the employment of myth in the New Testament when defining similar supposed supernatural intervention cannot be disregarded.

Finally, one pertinent question posed by the Neoplatonist scholar and philosopher Porphyry (232/3-c.305 CE) in his important treatise, Kata Christianōn (Against the Christians) asks how it can be maintained (by Christians) that deity cannot be held to subsist in a statue (as a cult object) but is deemed to reside in the physical body of the man Jesus. Despite the eloquent apologetics and contorted disputations of later Christian theologians, this profound inquiry appears to have found no rational determination. However, in the fifth Century, a dramatic and characteristic answer was provided by the, now predominant, Christian church and the state authorities. Porphyry’s work was condemned at the council of Ephesus in 431 CE and eventually consigned to the flames in 448 CE.
If there was no virgin birth then Christianity is just another religion and death will mean the end of everything for everyone.

The problem with modernist existential humanist theology is that it does not accept the whole Bible as the Word of God to us. They may say the Bible contains the Word of God, but it is inaccurate historically. In other words, there was no historical Jesus as described in the gospels, but it is the religious "Christ of faith" that is substituted for a historical Jesus who lived in Israel, born of a virgin, died on a cross and was resurrected all at definite points of human history. People who believe in this have just a pointless christianity that goes nowhere.

Existential humanistic philosophy is the dominant world view at this present time. Traditional Christianity is a minority world view. Existential philosophy is man's attempt to extract something positive out of the nihilistic philosophy that say that man is nothing and is going nowhere, the universe is in complete chaos, and is the result of time and chance. Therefore the reasoning on this basis results in absolute pessimism, and the social results of this are the great number of suicides in our western society.

But philosopher had a conflict, because although their philosophy said that man is just a bag of chemicals, a nothing, just a machine, what they could not deny in reality was that man was living and breathing as a real person with self consciousness and a personality, as if he is created in the image of God.

To resolve this conflict they decided to go into an "upper story" of non-reasoning, constructing a theory based on faith. But their faith is based on a belief that life does have meaning, man does have a future if he works hard to improve himself. One philosopher reasoned that the universe had to start somewhere - that someone or something had to start everything off, but that entity is a mystery. There are some who theorised that the universe was formed by some superior alien race living in another universe next door to ours; but most put down the formation of the universe through time and chance.

So, when the existential got into religious theology, they decided to call that entity 'god' who they believed must be good, but they did not know anything more about this entity called 'god'. Then they tried to find the historical Christ but failed. Albert Schweitzer detailed their quest and failure in his book "Quest for the Historical Jesus". Having failed, they decided to adopt "the christ of faith" which meant that Christ could be anyone you believed He could be, depending on your culture and your world view. Therefore, when they used the word "faith" they defined it as a belief in some kind of "god" they didn't know, and a "christ of faith" who probably was some kind of holy man who did some good things and taught that it was good to live a good moral life.

It is interesting that the modernist theologians use the same words as traditional Christians use, but their definition of those words are entirely different. The New Zealander Lloyd Geering and the American (or Canadian) Bishop Spong teach this theology.

I'll tell you what. When I get to heaven, I'll ask Bishop Spong what he thinks of his theology now that he is in eternity; and if he is not in heaven, then you can ask him! :)
 
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JackRT

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No, not really possible indeed! Moreover, I am not in any sense "at odds with" but merely proposing a more rational and non-supernatural interpretation of the narratives and stories found within these ancient texts. It should be realised that the gospels are not precisely historical narratives (i.e. inquiries) into the events they (appear) to be describing.They are more exactly categorised as (somewhat) tendentious accounts produced by the early Christian church to promote and promulgate their own particular preaching and teaching imperatives. In other words to disseminate a theological viewpoint and encourage belief. As literature, they have something in common with aretalogies.

Perhaps a better way to describe the gospels is as "interpretive narratives of a remarkable life". Moreover, I do not see any possible way to agree with the claim that they are eyewitness accounts.
 
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jerry kelso

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Perhaps a better way to describe the gospels is as "interpretive narratives of a remarkable life". Moreover, I do not see any possible way to agree with the claim that they are eyewitness accounts.

jackrt,

1. The Bible says there were over 500 brethren who were eyewitnesses 1 Corinthians 15:6.
If you don’t believe this you don’t believe the Bible is infallible.
Also, you must not understand that all the prophecies that we’re made and that have come true by so many different men so far apart and many times in great detail is an impossibility by a mere man or mere chance, but, instead points to a logical of an infinite God. Have togo
 
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jerry kelso

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jackrt,

1. The Bible says there were over 500 brethren who were eyewitnesses 1 Corinthians 15:6.
If you don’t believe this you don’t believe the Bible is infallible.
Also, you must not understand that all the prophecies that we’re made and that have come true by so many different men so far apart and many times in great detail is an impossibility by a mere man or mere chance, but, instead points to a logical truth of an infinite God. Jerry Kelso
 
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OzSpen

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Perhaps a better way to describe the gospels is as "interpretive narratives of a remarkable life". Moreover, I do not see any possible way to agree with the claim that they are eyewitness accounts.

Jack,

There you give us the presuppositions of your theological liberalism.

I have interacted with you on a number of occasions and you have told me that you are liberal theologically and do not take the Bible literally. Isn't that true?

Oz
 
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JackRT

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Jack,

There you give us the presuppositions of your theological liberalism.

I have interacted with you on a number of occasions and you have told me that you are liberal theologically and do not take the Bible literally. Isn't that true?

Oz

Yes, that is true ---- a great deal of the Bible is non-literal. Once we understand that, we can get on with the question "If it is not literal then what does it mean? What is the message for us?"
 
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OzSpen

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Yes, that is true ---- a great deal of the Bible is non-literal. Once we understand that, we can get on with the question "If it is not literal then what does it mean? What is the message for us?"

What is literal interpretation of the Bible?

What is non-literal interpretation of the Bible?

You didn't answer my question about your presuppositions of theological liberalism. Is it true you are theologically liberal in your interpretation of the Bible?

Oz
 
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OzSpen

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Quite true.

Jack,

I note that your motto at the base of your posts is: "If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got".

I also do what the Scriptures said I had to do to obtain eternal life AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT?

I always have what I got - eternal life.

If groups want to kill of denominations, promote theological liberalism, whether that's postmodernism or modernism! They're guaranteed ways to inflict decline on any denomination.

I've written about it in, Damning evidence against theological liberalism.

See also Ken Connor, 'Is liberal Christianity worth saving?'

Why would you say your liberal Christianity is worth promoting and saving?

Oz
 
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JackRT

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Why would you say your liberal Christianity is worth promoting and saving?

Because it is the only way a great many of us can preserve our spiritual and intellectual integrity and still remain Christian.
 
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hedrick

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I'm with Jack. I have to use the same way of judging truth in theology as in any other area. If I exempt Christianity from critical examination, I'm really saying it's not true in the same sense as other things I believe.

I don't judge the truth of something by popularity. I'm aware that mainline religion isn't very popular today. However I have to say that what is suddenly becoming popular is a movement that denies truth, not just in religion but everywhere.
 
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hedrick

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jackrt,

1. The Bible says there were over 500 brethren who were eyewitnesses 1 Corinthians 15:6.
If you don’t believe this you don’t believe the Bible is infallible.
Also, you must not understand that all the prophecies that we’re made and that have come true by so many different men so far apart and many times in great detail is an impossibility by a mere man or mere chance, but, instead points to a logical of an infinite God. Have togo
This is in response to Jack's statement that the Gospels weren't written by eyewitnesses. I accept Paul's statement. But these 500 people didn't, as far as we know, write the Gospels. It is very unlikely that any of the Gospel writers were witnesses.

Mark appears to be the earliest. The early Church said that it was based on Peter's accounts. Critical scholars take that seriously. But that doesn't make Mark an eyewitness.

Matthew and Luke are obviously based on Mark. If one of them was an eyewitness, it's hard to believe that they would have done that. Nor is it consistent with when these Gospels were likely written -- late 1st Cent. Their sources were Mark, which I take it to be based on Peter, and a separate collection of Jesus sayings (which could have been a document but in principle could even have been a fixed oral tradition). They aren't witnesses either. It's unlikely that the Gospel of John was written by the Apostle, but could well have been based on what he said.

None of this says that the Gospels are wrong. But it certainly doesn't establish that they are inerrant. Even if they were written by witnesses it wouldn't establish that. Indeed comparisons of the Gospels make it clear that each author had his own views on Jesus, which is why Jack called them interpretive accounts. Doesn't mean that they made up Jesus, just that we can see in each a specific interpretation of him.
 
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hedrick

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There's no evidence in this posting other than the fact that liberal Christianity is unpopular. When has it ever been guaranteed that true Christianity will be popular? There's no question that the popularity of evangelicalism has attracted people from the mainline churches. But it hasn't increased Christianity as a whole. Indeed it's continuing to decline. Furthermore, this movement could just as easy be viewed in light of prophecies of people who would lead Christians astray as anything else. You can only judge truth by evidence, not by whether people like it.

Frankly I'm a lot more worried about the decline in numbers of Christians than whether they're liberal or conservative. I worry that this decline may have some connection with the fact that the most visible Christians don't have a high regard for what many of us think is truth.
 
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Because it is the only way a great many of us can preserve our spiritual and intellectual integrity and still remain Christian.

The "only way"? How come?

What presuppositions do you have that I don't have about preserving spiritual and intellectual integrity?

Oz
 
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There's no evidence in this posting other than the fact that liberal Christianity is unpopular. When has it ever been guaranteed that true Christianity will be popular? There's no question that the popularity of evangelicalism has attracted people from the mainline churches. But it hasn't increased Christianity as a whole. Indeed it's continuing to decline. Furthermore, this movement could just as easy be viewed in light of prophecies of people who would lead Christians astray as anything else. You can only judge truth by evidence, not by whether people like it.

Frankly I'm a lot more worried about the decline in numbers of Christians than whether they're liberal or conservative. I worry that this decline may have some connection with the fact that the most visible Christians don't have a high regard for what many of us think is truth.

Hedrick,

Are Gospel proclaiming churches no more important than theologically liberal churches in maintaining biblical integrity in the marketplace?

Oz
 
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OzSpen

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I'm with Jack. I have to use the same way of judging truth in theology as in any other area. If I exempt Christianity from critical examination, I'm really saying it's not true in the same sense as other things I believe.

I don't judge the truth of something by popularity. I'm aware that mainline religion isn't very popular today. However I have to say that what is suddenly becoming popular is a movement that denies truth, not just in religion but everywhere.

Are you subjecting Christianity to autonomous human reason to judge truth?
 
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hedrick

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Hedrick,

Are Gospel proclaiming churches no more important than theologically liberal churches in maintaining biblical integrity in the marketplace?
Theologically liberal churches *are* Gospel-proclaiming churches. They are more important than conservative churches, because they proclaim the Gospel in a way that matches Jesus' teachings better.
 
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OzSpen

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Theologically liberal churches *are* Gospel-proclaiming churches. They are more important than conservative churches, because they proclaim the Gospel in a way that matches Jesus' teachings better.

hedrick,

You must be joking.:scratch: :doh:

If I go into a local theologically liberal church here in Brisbane, I hear preachers tear apart Scripture - deny Jesus' atoning sacrifice, the bodily resurrection, Jesus' second coming, the virgin birth, the miracles during His life on earth, and deny the authority of Scripture as they proclaim the errant Scripture that contains lots of mistakes.

And you have the audacity to state that "theologically liberal churches *are* Gospel-proclaiming churches".

That's a straw man fallacy.

If I want to go to churches that destroy Christianity, I rock into the nearest liberal church and get a pulpit-load of anti-Bible trash that denies the atonement of Jesus and lots of other biblical basics of theology.

Oz
 
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hedrick

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I can't talk to your local church. I haven't heard what they say. I can only judge based on US mainline churches, whose messages I know reasonably well.

Basically my problem is that without hearing the actual message I can't tell whether you are describing what you're hearing correctly. E.g. I'd bet that they don't deny the authority of Scripture, but rather deny inerrancy. I'd also bet that they don't deny the atonement, but rather penal substitution. (There are a few people who actually do deny the atonement, but it's hard to believe you'd be so unlucky as to hear them in several churches. They aren't typically church pastors.) Furthermore, several of these topics can't be talked about in CF anyway (the Virgin birth and I think the bodily resurrection), but the common liberal position is perfectly consistent with the Gospel, even though I can’t defend that here.
 
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