The Heresy of Darwin

[SpyridonOCA]

"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me." - John 5:46

For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed. - Exodus 31:15–17

This is the last thread that I want to start for Great Lent. I believe that our understanding of Genesis is the bedrock for our understanding of the faith. Our Lord stated that unless you believe Moses, you will not believe in Him. I want you to please consider the implications of compromising your faith to appease secular science.

One must understand that natural science and Orthodox theology follow two radically different epistemologies. Theology seeks to understand that which has been revealed in the Scripture. Natural science seeks to find natural explanations for what we observe in the natural world.

Science and Religion: Non-Overlapping Magisteria
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_noma.html

As the holy fathers have taught us, we should appreciate science when it benefits mankind, but whenever science reaches conclusions which contradict what the Church has already revealed, we are not to follow it.

Genesis and Early Man

The Orthodox Patristic Understanding http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/evolution_frseraphim_kalomiros.aspx



Since the scientific method is limited to what we are able to observe in the present, Darwin's theory is not even good science. It is speculation of prehistory, contradicting what Christ has already revealed to us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-HiHNhKuJM

Here are some important questions every Orthodox Christian should ask:

If we are the descendants of pre-human forms, did H. erectus and H. Neandertal have souls?

Is the soul something which evolved over time?

Is there anything inherent to the purported fossil ancestors themselves which would suggest that they were not fully ape or fully human?

[SIZE=-1]Reflections on Human Origins[/SIZE]
http://www.designinference.com/documents/2004.06.Human_Origins.pdf

If we are evolved apes, is it an ape that died on the cross?

Why do we believe that Christ died to save us from death if death entered the world before the sin of Adam?

If Christ's death was to save our souls and our bodies, when did our bodies become corrupt under an evolutionary perspective?

An Interview with Father Damascene on Evolution
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/enarticles/060222155510

Why do you believe natural science's explanations of prehistory, when prehistory is beyond the realm of science? Please do not accuse me of being an ignorant man for understanding that science cannot reach beyond science to discredit Orthodox Tradition.

May God have mercy upon us.

 

[choirfiend]

Bye! Have a good lent!

 

[Matrona]

If theistic evolution is "heresy", then I'm a heretic and so are all of the Orthodox priests and scholars I know!

 

[SpyridonOCA]

If theistic evolution is "heresy", then I'm a heretic and so are all of the Orthodox priests and scholars I know!

I don't believe that you are a heretic. Misguided, perhaps. But not a heretic. Darwin was a heretic.

"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me." - John 5:46

For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed.- Exodus 31:15–17

Do you believe Moses or do you believe Darwin?

I'm sorry to have hurt or offended you. It's odd that you'd be so concerned about what the church fathers taught regarding the non-Chalcedonians, but not what they taught concerning Creation and Genesis. May God have mercy upon us.

If you want to understand the philosophy behind Darwin's theory, and what it has done to Western civilization, please read these books and then read them again:

Nihilism: The Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age
http://www.amazon.com/Nihilism-Root...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204587375&sr=1-1

The Abolition of Man (Paperback)
by C. S. Lewis (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Abolition-Man...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204587464&sr=1-1

Darwin on Trial by Phillip E. Johnson
http://www.amazon.com/Darwin-Trial-...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204587517&sr=1-1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L-HiHNhKuJM

 

[Thekla]

unless Darwin was Orthodox, I don't think he can, technically, be an heretic

 

[Mikeb85]

Do you believe Moses or do you believe Darwin?

Just curious, but how do you think God would explain creation (of which the exact mechanics would be impossible for our finite minds to grasp) to ancient mankind? When do we take the Bible literally to the word, and when do we understand it allegorically? Jesus used parables, and theres plenty of symbolic language throughout the Bible...

Speaking of language, the creation story can lead to an understanding that the earth is flat. We know this to be false, because we have observed the earth to be round. It's not that Genesis is wrong, rather it's our understanding that is often wrong. It wasn't written for modern man to understand through scientific thought, but for ancient man's understanding.

As the holy fathers have taught us, we should appreciate science when it benefits mankind, but whenever science reaches conclusions which contradict what the Church has already revealed, we are not to follow it.

If we believe the faith is completely true, then science cannot contradict it.

As for evolution, 'Darwinism', etc... Theres plenty of junk science out there. Even during the time I wasn't a Christian, I never did believe that humans evolved from apes, which evolved from simpler life forms. These theories can be disproved with critical analysis of the methods used to obtain them, but that's another topic.

As for my personal beliefs, I do believe God created the world/universe, that Genesis is a description designed for our limited understanding, and that we cannot understand God's exact methods, that the world is older than 6000 years, that each creature as well as man were unique creations (ie. not evolving from simpler forms), but also that some physical changes are possible within species.

Edit - by the way, nice links, some good descriptions in there.

2nd edit - I also think a reason for misunderstanding is that not everyone has the same idea of what evolution really means, or what Darwin was trying to convey through his work.

 

[Lukaris]

There is a problem with Darwinism though in the aspect that it seems to be taught as an ideology and that is where the red flag is raised. There are secular scientists that do not completely agree with it and when they publish their opinions they end up being blackballed. Ben Stein, (lawyer, economist, & dry comical actor) is releasing a film er this called Expelled: No intelligence Allowed coming in April http://expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

 

[jckstraw72]

Spyridon you are post is great. All the questions you have asked show the many problems with trying to combine Orthodoxy with evolution.

 

[jckstraw72]

If theistic evolution is "heresy", then I'm a heretic and so are all of the Orthodox priests and scholars I know!

thankfully the Saints are not though!

 

[Matrona]

It's fine with me if you don't agree with evolution, but accusing theistic evolutionist Orthodox of heresy is crossing the line.

 

[jckstraw72]

It's fine with me if you don't agree with evolution, but accusing theistic evolutionist Orthodox of heresy is crossing the line.

is it crossing the line to say theistic evolution is heretical, or at least has heretical implications?

 

[Matrona]

is it crossing the line to say theistic evolution is heretical, or at least has heretical implications?

Can I say taking Genesis literally is heretical, or that it has "heretical implications"?

 

[InTheCloud]

Never mind that Darwin was a calvinistic leaning Anglican when he wrote his book and became a Agnostic latter in life, so he cannot be technicaly a heretic.

 

[jckstraw72]

Can I say taking Genesis literally is heretical, or that it has "heretical implications"?

i suppose you can, but thatd make just about every Church Father and Saint that has commented on Genesis a heretic. Tis much more likely that modern Orthodox "scholars" are wrong, rather than our God-bearing Fathers who we look to for our consistent chain of beliefs.

 

[ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs]

I'm glad this is a non-issue for me but I'll still subscribe just out of morbid curiosity.

 

[ArmyMatt]

personally, I'd rather follow those who drew close to Christ tell me how it was all done. I also have yet to hear a good reason for why God, who is Life, would author death from the beginning. then call it His enemy.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

My roommate is a science major and inquirer of the Orthodox faith, and for him I've purchased this book:
http://www.light-n-life.com/shopping/order_product.asp?ProductNum=BEAU367

Gayle E. Woloschak is an Orthodox scientist who writes with an evolutionary perspective on Creation. Since there is no official position on evolution in the Orthodox Church, I'm willing to concede that Woloschak's perspective is acceptable, yet perhaps unnecessary. Whenever secular science and Orthodox Tradition are in conflict, I would prefer to err on the side of Tradition. But I understand and tolerate those who believe otherwise.

Please forgive my of anything I've said or done to hurt or offend you.

 

[Matrona]

My roommate is a science major and inquirer of the Orthodox faith, and for him I've purchased this book:
http://www.light-n-life.com/shopping/order_product.asp?ProductNum=BEAU367

Gayle E. Woloschak is an Orthodox scientist who writes with an evolutionary perspective on Creation. Since there is no official position on evolution in the Orthodox Church, I'm willing to concede that Woloschak's perspective is acceptable, yet perhaps unnecessary. Whenever secular science and Orthodox Tradition are in conflict, I would prefer to err on the side of Tradition. But I understand and tolerate those who believe otherwise.

Please forgive my of anything I've said or done to hurt or offend you.

Wow, that book sounds really interesting. Thanks for posting the link.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

There is a difference between seeing evolution in the light of Christ, as His method of Creation and the unfolding self-disclosure of Himself to mankind, and seeing Christ in light of evolution, by believing in an evolving God and that mankind is evolving toward Godhood. Since God's ways are not our ways, we will never know definitively how He created the heavens and the earth, but we should all agree that mankind is created in the image of God, has fallen, and is in need of Christ for redemption. Questions of method and time are, ultimately, peripheral to one's faith.

 

[Mikeb85]

Oops, never mind. http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/evolution_frseraphim_kalomiros.aspx