the hard question....

visionary

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if God knows what you're going to do before you do it then do we really have free will or do we just have the illusion of free will? that's like putting a piece of candy in front of a child and telling them not to touch it then walking away to see if they touch it. you gave them a choice but you ultimately new that the kid would grab the candy. If God knows all sees all and knows what we're going to do before we do it I can't see that as being free will sounds more like pre-determination to me. I say that while He knows our paths, He hopes that His influences changes the path we take.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Knowing something will happen does not mean that you make it happen. I watched my kid who had just learned to ride his bike without training wheels. I could see that he was going to fast so I told him to slow down or he would fall off. He did not slow down and yes, he fell off. I did not cause him to fall. The only way I could have prevented the incident was not to have given him the bike in the first place. God chose to create man with free will. That has risks attached, just like giving a kid a bike. The fact that God knew man would fall does not mean that God made him fall. God warned man of the consequences of disobedience. Man rebelled. And the consequences came to pass exactly as God said that they would.
 
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Tone

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if God knows what you're going to do before you do it then do we really have free will or do we just have the illusion of free will? that's like putting a piece of candy in front of a child and telling them not to touch it then walking away to see if they touch it. you gave them a choice but you ultimately new that the kid would grab the candy. If God knows all sees all and knows what we're going to do before we do it I can't see that as being free will sounds more like pre-determination to me. I say that while He knows our paths, He hopes that His influences changes the path we take.


I believe it's something more like a great tapestry, wherein all elements have a freedom to weave through belief.

If they don't, then what are they other than material, cut out, and useless for the masterpiece.
 
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Tone

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I believe it's something more like a great tapestry, wherein all elements have a freedom to weave through belief.

If they don't, then what are they other than material, cut out, and useless for the masterpiece.


But, may there still be hope for a scrap to be gathered and recycled from trash?

I believe so, the Master Weaver is very resourceful.

Praise Yah for that!
 
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UnpopularOpinion

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if God knows what you're going to do before you do it then do we really have free will or do we just have the illusion of free will? that's like putting a piece of candy in front of a child and telling them not to touch it then walking away to see if they touch it. you gave them a choice but you ultimately new that the kid would grab the candy. If God knows all sees all and knows what we're going to do before we do it I can't see that as being free will sounds more like pre-determination to me. I say that while He knows our paths, He hopes that His influences changes the path we take.
No , knowing that something will happen is not causing it to do so , I have never understood why people make such connection it's illogical.
Best thing is when God gives choice to Daniel and says if you do X then Y will happen , if you do Z then B will happen which literally destroys all the worldview you presented to us today.
 
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GedaliahMaegil

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if God knows what you're going to do before you do it then do we really have free will or do we just have the illusion of free will? that's like putting a piece of candy in front of a child and telling them not to touch it then walking away to see if they touch it. you gave them a choice but you ultimately new that the kid would grab the candy. If God knows all sees all and knows what we're going to do before we do it I can't see that as being free will sounds more like pre-determination to me. I say that while He knows our paths, He hopes that His influences changes the path we take.

Some would try to suggest that HaShem is limited by time, which would, in turn, suggest that there is a part of His creation that He has no sovereignty over ... and that is a non-starter.

He sees the whole of time, within the broader reality that is the eternity He dwells in. He is not limited by time. For Him, it is the present, all the time, even though that is a poor way for me to describe it. He does know our paths, and He also directs the steps of man. Given His unique way of seeing the true reality of eternity and of his creation, time, He Is also uniquely and eminently qualified to know precisely where and when both His aid and interposition are best needed or withheld.

He deals with us in terms of the time He created, which we are bound by, while never surrendering His sovereignty over it. He can entrust a prophecy to one nevi, while delivering it to what we would see as a later earthly ruler by a different nevi (e.g. Cyrus of Persia). It isn't magic; it's due to the fact that, for HaShem, it has already happened.

So, whither "free will"? Well, I imagine one would have to contend with what that is first. Since sin (חֲטָאָה) is defined in the Word as being a departure from the will of HaShem, it is also concurrently defined in that same Word as leading to bondage. On the other hand, anyone who has read Tehillah 119 knows that a regard for the will of HaShem leads to freedom, life, and peace. Since the mitsvah to listen to the "prophet like Moshe" is in Torah, Yeshua, who did not sin but walked according to the will of the Father, Yeshua's example of how to walk freely, in abundant life, is given to us.

A free will is that which walks in harmony with HaShem and His desire for us. It's what the will was designed for. When we twist and misuse that will to walk against His will, that is when we are in bondage and not free. We have an Advocate with the Father, and those whom the Son frees are free indeed, to walk according to the original created design.
 
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eleos1954

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if God knows what you're going to do before you do it then do we really have free will or do we just have the illusion of free will? that's like putting a piece of candy in front of a child and telling them not to touch it then walking away to see if they touch it. you gave them a choice but you ultimately new that the kid would grab the candy. If God knows all sees all and knows what we're going to do before we do it I can't see that as being free will sounds more like pre-determination to me. I say that while He knows our paths, He hopes that His influences changes the path we take.

God has foreknowledge of everything .... (specifically regarding us) He knows what all decisions will be made .... He don't make the decisions ... rather He knows what they will be. We definitely has free will!
 
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