The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America Thread

[gzt]

A lot of political wrangling going on. Hard to know what's what.

For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Got themselves in a pickle:
Jurisdictions unite against GOARCH plans to make defrocked archimandrite a bishop

 

[ArmyMatt]

Got themselves in a pickle:
Jurisdictions unite against GOARCH plans to make defrocked archimandrite a bishop

it would seem so, Lord have mercy

 

[Johnny Ross]

Is this True?

Has AB Elpidophoros Just Legitimized Gay Marriage Through Baptism? - Helleniscope

 

[ArmyMatt]

Is this True?

Has AB Elpidophoros Just Legitimized Gay Marriage Through Baptism? - Helleniscope

I certainly hope not, but I have been seeing it pop up on the internet today.

Lord have mercy!

(but to answer the title, no. it doesn’t legitimize anything. one bishop cannot do that)

 

[Andrew.H]

Is this True?

Has AB Elpidophoros Just Legitimized Gay Marriage Through Baptism? - Helleniscope

Using infants as political pawns to push a message on people who are diametrically opposed to your life choices is evil.

Should those baptisms be considered legitimate in the long run, I would pray those kids would grow to be the most staunch defenders of Orthodoxy.

 

[prodromos]

I don't know how the Archbishop is able to walk, with all those mill stones he has hanging around his neck.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

In discussions with the wife to determine changing to OCA or Antiochian church.

Trouble is she’s one of the chanters (the only one with a degree in classical voice) at our current parish so separating from GOARCH will take some finesse.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Trouble is she’s one of the chanters (the only one with a degree in classical voice) at our current parish so separating from GOARCH will take some finesse.

I don’t think it’d take her long to get plugged in to an OCA or Antiochian parish.

 

[rusmeister]

I don't know how the Archbishop is able to walk, with all those mill stones he has hanging around his neck.

Agreed. He is engaged in promoting evil in the Church. We are all sinners, and not better than him, but appealing to him as an authority upholding Holy Tradition is flatly contradicted by this. It makes him a false teacher, a wolf in shepherd’s clothing.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Agreed. He is engaged in promoting evil in the Church. We are all sinners, and not better than him, but appealing to him as an authority upholding Holy Tradition is flatly contradicted by this. It makes him a false teacher, a wolf in shepherd’s clothing.

Titus 1:16

I used to sit high and mighty reading these verses and pointing at Protestants and Catholics, but when these scriptures were written there were no Protestants or Catholics. These verses are about Orthodox hierarchs.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Is this True?

Has AB Elpidophoros Just Legitimized Gay Marriage Through Baptism? - Helleniscope

With all the defiling of the children going on in mainstream secular culture (transing the kids, drag-queen story hour, drag queens in schools, Sex-Ed in kindergarten, etc.), I can't help but wonder if this is somehow connected to it.

 

[Dewi Sant]

I thought the baptism is for the kids.

I don't see where the fuss is.
Unless it is believed that the children inherit the guilt of their parents

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I thought the baptism is for the kids.

I don't see where the fuss is.
Unless it is believed that the children inherit the guilt of their parents

 

[Johnny Ross]

With all the defiling of the children going on in mainstream secular culture (transing the kids, drag-queen story hour, drag queens in schools, Sex-Ed in kindergarten, etc.), I can't help but wonder if this is somehow connected to it.

For me, it is connected with this spiritual battle for individual sovereignty which the West has designated as Supreme. Human Rights, rules-based order, rugged individualism, the protestant sermon, Papal infallibility etc...all places the individual at the center of the universe. This is the spiritual warfare we are engaged in at these desperate times and of which the war in Ukraine is but another theater of this great war.
It is interesting to see this decay into hyper-individualism by noting the size of popular music groups. Starting in the big band era, we see a full on orchestra being the dominant form of popular music, we then see smaller bands by the 50's-90's usually 3, 4 or 5 members. The 80's saw an explosion of duets and now popular music is dominated by individuals who have a need to evangelize the world to their decadent lifestyle.
As far as the AB Elpidophoros, I only have theories of course. Perhaps, he is on his way out and this was an act of defiance, perhaps he wants to move the Church Left in hopes of growing the church ala seeker-sensitive protestants or maybe he is positioning himself for a lucrative position after his service as AB is over in order to land a nice cushy consulting gig, I don't know.
But I do know what Christ said, " So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits." (Matt 7:16-20) NASB

 

[ArmyMatt]

I thought the baptism is for the kids.

I don't see where the fuss is.
Unless it is believed that the children inherit the guilt of their parents

it’s that the kids will be raised in an anti-Christian home.

 

[E.C.]

In discussions with the wife to determine changing to OCA or Antiochian church.

Trouble is she’s one of the chanters (the only one with a degree in classical voice) at our current parish so separating from GOARCH will take some finesse.

Both the OCA and Antiochians would happily take her. The Antiochians typically do use their own version of Byzantine chant, but the OCA is generally open to just about any Orthodox tradition around.

 

[xenia]

The problem isn't that the children of unbelievers were baptized. The problem is the way it all came about. For starters, Elpi. misled the metropolitan of the diocese in Greece where it took place. Elpi. asked permission to carry out a "family" baptism, and of course the Greek metropolitan assumed "family" didn't mean two "married" homosexuals who acquired their children by means of surrogacy. He didn't find out until after it was over. And after the baptism, there was a big glitzy celeb party with the couple gloating on social media showing absolutely zero understanding of holy baptism.

If the grandmother, who I read was the instigator of all this, was interested in the spiritual well-being of all concerned, the baptism should have taken place in her home parish in the US, privately and quietly, by the parish priest, not the archbishop, after having a serious discussion with the "parents" and getting some assurance that someone out of that crowd of eight godparents (how many were Orthodox?) would give the kids any kind of Christian upbringing. (I think the "fathers" were from California; I don't know about the grandmother.)

The whole event comes off as giving the finger to the rest of the Orthodox world. (Pardon my vulgarity.)

 

[xenia]

The most charitable spin that could be put on this is this: The grandmother might be a very pious Orthodox Christian who is not in favor of homosexual "marriage," but she loves her grandchildren, however they came into being. She is concerned about their salvation and asks if they could be baptized, with her intending to take care of bringing them to church, etc. This is always a possibility, and maybe she never intended it to become the scandal it has become.

 

[prodromos]

The most charitable spin that could be put on this is this: The grandmother might be a very pious Orthodox Christian who is not in favor of homosexual "marriage," but she loves her grandchildren, however they came into being. She is concerned about their salvation and asks if they could be baptized, with her intending to take care of bringing them to church, etc. This is always a possibility, and maybe she never intended it to become the scandal it has become.

I agree with the sentiment but consider it unlikely. I hope it is the case.