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The Greatest Deception of all Time

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Marantha, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. hiscosmicgoldfish

    hiscosmicgoldfish Liberal Anglican

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    I suspect that all this stuff from Tom Horn is more of his reaching, to write and sell another crap book.
     
  2. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Well, it took less than 24 hours for Br. Consolmagno to respond to my email. Here is his response in toto:



    It looks like this issue has been brought to Consolmagno's attention before since his blog entry on the subject is from a week and a half ago. Here are the pertinent parts of the blog:




    more...


    more...



    About the whole Jesus/alien seed issue...



    Maranatha, if you doubt any part of this email, here is a link to Consolmagno's email; you are more than welcome to ask him about the Horn interview for yourself, but as you can see he has already blogged about it.

    You've been duped and lied to by men pretending to be honest researchers who are trying to sell books by scaring people. Hope this is a lesson learned.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  3. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

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    Thanks again NumberOneSon for your work!
     
  4. hiscosmicgoldfish

    hiscosmicgoldfish Liberal Anglican

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    You've been duped and lied to by men pretending to be honest researchers who are trying to sell books by scaring people. Hope this is a lesson learned.

    I agree. It's another money-making book scam.
     
  5. Marantha

    Marantha Newbie

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    Most of the issues in your response are twisted versions of what was covered in the evidence; as usual.

    I am not convinced in the least. Tell me why I should trust a statement from an organization that is headed up by a guy that wears a hat shaped like a fish; and also claims he is the go between between myself and Jesus Christ. Look into pagan traditions and you will see these things originate.

    If you can explain to me where this is mentioned in the Holy Bible, thereby adding credibility; I will believe your claim that I have been duped.

    Of course they are going to deny this in "official" responses. The DEVIL knows that the person without discernment is going to buy the lie. That's who the lie is made for. Those out there who have done there homework know the difference, and they are the minority.


    Most every Governing organization of any kind has been known to lie constantly and consistently to suit their own best interests throughout history.


    I am surprised he not throw in the usual "CONSPIRACY THEORY, CONSPIRACY THEORY" nonsense.


    If the individual persons in the evidence I presented were to be FIRED and kicked out of their positions in the Catholic (which means "universal") Church, I would reconsider.


    Why would every single person involved in that organization not have been made to issue an official response withdrawing their statements after making these INCREDIBLE statements about aliens/demons?


    Why have they not been PUBLICLY REBUKED by the Vatican Leadership for misrepresenting the church?


    Of course they would be, as their statements would be an insult to Christ believing Catholics worldwide. As a matter of preserving the integrity of the church, they would HAVE to be for such RADICAL statements.


    Satan, if you have not noticed, does not go about broadcasting his plans publicly. He presents himself as an "angel of light" He is not going to tell you directly how he plans to fool most of the world; and a 5 year old would understand that. Instead, he laughs as you believe his lies.

    The man you received a reply from is MISDIRECTING.....the BEST alternative to outright LYING.

    Did you really think he would tell you the truth if he really DID believe what he has ALREADY stated?

    You sir, have been duped. The only question is willingly or unwillingly.


    Glory be to God
    Marantha
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  6. hiscosmicgoldfish

    hiscosmicgoldfish Liberal Anglican

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    the thing is, the claim that any telescope can observe satan or demons in the sky is silly. its just a mediocre telescope, not the best telescope in the world, that is rubbish.
    what is the pope and the Vatican supposed to be up to anyway?

    satan isn't going to turn up anyway, if he was it'd be in the bible, which says that the man of sin. son of perdition would be an end-times player.
     
  7. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Absolutely not true; the issues I mentioned in the email are mirrored precisely in the book and video.

    - Between Exo-Vaticana and Petrus Romanus, the alleged prophecies of St. Malachiy are used to show that the next pope will be the last, and that he will usher in the antichrist. I twisted nothing. You can even get that info from the books' descriptions on Amazon.

    -Tom Horn quoted Consolmagno as saying “(v)ery soon the nations will look to Aliens for their salvation”, and I provided that quote in the email. You can see it in the video at the 15:03 minute mark. I twisted nothing.

    -Horn claimed Consolmagno gave him documents not shown to the public that outline what “highest level” Vatican theologians and astronomers believe about Jesus maybe being the son of a star child, and that the virgin birth was comparable to an alien abduction. You can see that at the 15:43 mark. I twisted nothing.

    I then asked if Consolmagno remembered being interviewed by Horn and if the claims in the video were an accurate representation of what the two of them talked about.

    Show me where I twisted anything in that email. But you won’t do it because you can’t.

    Of course you’re not, because you liked what Horn and Putnum said and you’ll back them up no matter what the evidence shows. You’re not interested in the truth, but only in what validates your point of view.

    Nothing like a good ol’ anti-Catholicism rant to deflect from the real issue at hand (ie; “I won’t believe you because the Pope wears funny hats and I've read Hislop's version of history”). Brilliant.

    Nope, your problems with Catholic theology have nothing to do with why you've been duped.

    What?!?! What “official response”? I’m not a member of the press or an official of any kind - I’m a nobody who simply asked Consolmagno in a private email if what Horn said in the video was true!

    Maranatha, can’t you see that your “he’ll deny this officially” excuse is completely absurd given that you believe Consolmagna went on record and openly discussed these things with Horn in an interview?! So let me see if I can get this straight; you believe Consolmagna, a Vatican scholar and faithful Catholic, was willing to “officially” spill the beans about alien salvation and star-child Jesus to Tom Horn, a man who openly links the Catholic Church to occultism and the antichrist, and that Consolmagna even gave him access to secret Vatican papers that delve into these issues – BUT, when a no name peon like myself asks this same Vatican scholar in a private email to clarify his beliefs on those issues, you think it’s reasonable for him to lie to me because…that’s his “official” response?!

    Don't you remember that just a few pages ago, you and Baseballgirl were trying to argue that the "Vatican itself" supports the stuff Tom Horn is saying and that "popes have already spoken on the issue", and yet now you're claiming the Vatican doesn't want anyone to talk about it? You're not making any sense.

    Maranatha: "THE VATICAN ITSELF supports what Tom Horn says here is true":doh:
    Maranatha: "The Vatican officialdom represents the pope. That's why they are in the Vatican. Popes have spoken on this very issue; including the previous.....Benedict." :doh:

    argumentum ad verecundiam fallacy. Next.

    Yep….so maybe Consolmagna was lying to Horn about all that alien stuff in order to spread disinfo and discredit Horn. Whoah…I think I just blew my mind!

    And yet you show absolutely no surprise or incredulity with the notion that a top Vatican scholar would divulge top secret alien information to a protestant author he doesn’t even know who just so happens to be writing a book linking the papacy to End Times prophecy? That doesn’t throw up even just a tinsy-tiny red flag in your mind?

    Why would that be a good reason? And why would they be fired if (as you say) the Vatican supports those views and popes have openly spoken about it?

    Which begs the question – why would these men have made “incredible statements about aliens/demons” in the first place if the information was classified? It makes no sense.

    Well probably because a.) the Catholic Church allows for a wide variety of beliefs on non-essential stuff, and b.) Consolmagna never actually said the things Horn claims he said, so the Catholic Church wouldn't have any reason to publicly rebuke Consolmagna. He's put a rebuttal up on his blog, so that should suffice.

    I gotta admit, I find it immensely entertaining that you think the Church leadership wouldn't already have protocols in place to keep people from simply handing out Vatican secrets on a whim, and that you believe a scientist as seasoned as Consolmanga would think it's OK to divulge Vatican secrets to complete strangers for absolutely no justifiable reason. And this is rational to you how, exactly?

    I just love how you claim to know so much about what the Catholic Church should or should not do, despite the fact that you don't even bother to consult with Catholics about how their Church is run. You are so learned.

    Just another thought; Horn and Putnum make it clear in the video that the people running the Catholic Church want Catholics to believe in the connection between Jesus and aliens…and those beliefs will then lead to a great deception. Toward the end of the video, they even talk about how Hollywood is “conditioning” us to accept the reality of aliens. So why would the Vatican want to lie about something they are trying to indoctrinate us about? I mean, wouldn’t that be the reason Consolmagna spoke so candidly with Horn in the first place, or supposedly gave him Vatican documents? So which is it; do they want us to believe in aliens or not? If they do, then there would be no reason for Consolmagna to lie to me.

    Right…except when Tom Horn asks for an interview. In that case, Satan throws open the vault and let’s Tom access all of the cool, secret info that everyone else isn’t allowed to see. Sheesh.:doh::doh:

    LOL, again, unless it’s Tom Horn trying to dig up stuff for a book about the next pope ushering in the era of the Antichrist…in that case, Satan will tell Tom directly how he plans to fool the world…and then he’ll let Horn get on Sid Roth’s program and spill all the beans. Sounds to me like the devil is bipolar.:doh::doh::doh:

    So explain why “the man” would be direct and truthful to Tom Horn, but dishonest toward little, ol’ me? It seems counterproductive to deny information to me but freely divulge it to Horn, especially since you've already claimed that the Vatican and popes have spoken publicly in support of alien stuff. In that case, there would be no reason to misdirect.

    And isn't it a tad ironic that you'll believe what Tom Horn said about "the man", but you won't believe what Consolmagna, himself, says? So hearsay is more reliable than email?

    YES - because that's the entire POINT!! Horn believes the group running the Catholic Church WANTS the world to believe in an alien Jesus so when the “aliens” (err..demons) come to Earth people will be deceived, right? Isn’t that the point? If people don’t believe in star-children or alien gods then no one will be deceived when they arrive.

    Nope, the duped one is you, I’m afraid. Just like you were duped into believing the “Lucifer” device was named by the Church. You didn’t do your homework.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  8. hiscosmicgoldfish

    hiscosmicgoldfish Liberal Anglican

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    Sid Roth has every sort of wild wako and liar on his shows.
     
  9. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

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    I actually predicted half of Marantha's post, and wrote it, and was just about to publish it here then... thought it would be uncharitable. I wondered, for a moment, whether Marantha would for once choose to side with reason and evidence and would actually have the calm, level-headed humility to admit he was wrong for once. So I deleted my post, and simply thanked NumberOneSon again for his work.

    But given the appalling irrationality in Marantha's response above, I'm thinking I should have posted it anyway? This is beyond a joke! Marantha, the Catholocism of these astronomers is not the issue. What is the issue, once again, is evidence. Do you actually have any? What is in question is the integrity of the completely lying buffoons you keep being hoodwinded by! How many March 22nd's is it going to take for you to grow the tiniest measure of critical thinking? :doh::doh::doh:It's like you've never heard of wolves in sheeps clothing, of people who lie and steal and cheat in the church to make money, who see publishing books to the guillible as a great credit stream! Come on man! It's time to develop some respect for evidence!
     
  10. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    To keep an eye on Satan, obviously. Apparently he can be seen with a big enough 'scope. ;)

    As has been noted several times, they didn't name it that. It's what it was called by the people who built it. It was a joke name based on its real name: Large Binocular Telescope Near-infrared Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit for Extragalactic Research. And how is mocking "Lucifer" by using his name as a joke abominable? As Sir Thomas More said "the devil...the proud spirit cannot endure to be mocked"

    Probably for the same reason that Brother Consolmagno was quoted as saying a bunch of stuff that he really didn't - Horn lied.

    Baloney. Horn and Putnam lied their hindquarters off. You've bought into yet another fraud, M. It's a habit you ought to break.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  11. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

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    Marantha wrote:

    It's your job to find evidence for these bizarre X-Files claims, not our job to debunk all your strange claims.
     
  12. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    If, in fact, gov'ts, gov't officials, and religious organizations (Christian ones, anyway) were doing any such thing you might have a point. But they're not. The in fact the only people who seem to believe in aliens at all, either of the ET or the demonic variety, are the folks who prattle about the Great Delusion. Let's face it, there ain't any aliens. Whether aliens are good or bad is a matter of no importance, because there aren't any aliens! The classic "I woke up and there was an alien in my room" tale is what up in Smith County we call "having a nightmare". It is't real. The Great Delusion is believing that fantasy stuff like that is real. It isn't.

    There are no aliens. ET didn't phone home. Klingons don't fly around on starships, because there are neither Klingons nor starships. There are no Greys, or Greens, or Fuschias, because there are no aliens at all. Demons are not passing themselves off as aliens, be cause if they were there would be something or someone around who appeared to be aliens, but there aren't.

    Are there UFOs? Sure. If it's flying, and if you don't know what it is, then it's by definition a UFO. But your UFO is most likely a bright planet or American 1128 to Phoenix and not a flying saucer, because in all probability there are no flying saucers, because there are no aliens. The best UFO report around here in a long while was a Brentwood woman whose car was pursued by a silvery, spherical UFO. It was the moon.

    So which movie of teevee alien are we supposed to embrace as our new savior? ET? Worf? The Doctor? The alien from "Alien"? The saucer drivers from "To Serve Man"? Alf? Mr. Spock? The baddies from "Cowboys and Aliens"? The blue dudes from "Avatar" (aka "Dances With Aliens")? Stitch, from "Lilo and Stitch"? Which of these critters are we being programmed to accept as our redeemers? It must not be working for me, or anyone that I know.

    Not really, because science is silent on the topic, when it's not openly doubtful. The fact that there's no radio frequency radiation of the sort that ought to be produced by any sufficiently advanced civilization argues loudly against the existence of ET aliens who could manage to get here and annoy us. If it's demons trying to pass themselves off as ETs, why wouldn't they try something a little more plausible. A good grifter doesn't tell his mark a story that he won't believe, he makes it sound as plausible and straightforward as possible. The confidence man can't rook you until he has your confidence, and he doesn't get it claiming to be Napoleon, or a Man From Mars, or Czar of All the Russias. Demons, being experts at lying and deception, know this. So why would they choose a cover that's patently incredible, or one that's so likely to excite fear and loathing?

    Forget aliens, and Blue Beams (perhaps the stupidest bit of End Times lunacy of them all) and all that kind of nonsense. The Great Delusion, and Satan's magnum opus, is Islam. You remember, the religion allegedly delivered to its "prophet" by an angel? (Mahound thought he was talking to Gabriel. In fact, he sitting at the feet of the father of Lies. And we're worried about fictional aliens. :doh: )
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  13. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

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    I think we're being programmed to accept the Predators as our saviours, mainly because they're so cuddly. ;) I mean, half the sci-fi movies I see with Aliens seem to be warning us against viewing them as saviour. Didn't these guys see Prometheus!? Guy Pearce goes up there as the trillionarie who wants to live forever and thinks the aliens are going to grant him eternal life... How'd that work out for him? ;)
     
  14. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    Not too good, as I recall. :cool:

    BTW, about half the customers in my store today were from Oz. I ended up in a long political discussion with a guy from Queensland, and finally agreed that if he and I could just get the politicians to implement our ideas then the world would be a far better place. Unfortunately my wife made me go back to work before we could sort out how to make it happen. C'est la vie.
     
  15. YeShallTread

    YeShallTread Well-Known Member

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    Last week I watched a show on television showing the observatory and the telescope under discussion. It's quite real. Along with the video was the declaration of the vatican now saying that because there are extra-terrestrials doesn't mean there is no God.

    It isn't X-files.
     
  16. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    That's not the issue we are contesting....the telescope and observatory are definitely real. Also, I don't believe the Vatican has declared that there are extra-terrestrials for certain; but it has said if there is other life somewhere in outer space then this new information would still be compatible with their faith. In other words, Christianity can still be true even if aliens exist on other planets because they would be God's creations as well.
     
  17. YeShallTread

    YeShallTread Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe there are visitors to earth that are not of earth?
     
  18. shturt678

    shturt678 Senior Veteran

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    Awhile back someone else wanted me to watch the same, struggled due to download issues, however was able to and was enjoyable, i.e., I must also not only hear, but scrutinize other's views also. I conclude at this time, still the papacy, not just one Pope, comports with IIThess.2:3, where I see the the non RC, including Lutherans of today, I'm a Lutheran, falls under him also. Thank you.
     
  19. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    The supreme science of the BIble is to know the 2500 qutoes and allusions of the OT by the NT and to see patterns. Rom 16 says God has now ordered that the OT shine on the Gospel so that the nations will believe and obey. Now, to our task!
     
  20. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Me? No, I do not. If an extraterrestrial civilization had the capabilities to send scouting parties and research teams between our two solar systems, then they would be so incredibly advanced they wouldn't need to skulk around at night abducting hillbillies and making crop circles. We would be like ants compared to them; they could come and go as they please in broad daylight doing whatever they wished to us and we would be powerless against their technology. Who knows, maybe they have their own Prime Directive or something, lol.

    But do I believe there is sentient life somewhere out in the cosmos? I'd like to think so.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
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