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The Greatest Deception of all Time

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Marantha, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. Marantha

    Marantha Newbie

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    THE VATICAN ITSELF supports what Tom Horn says here is true.

    Sid Roth, a Christian Jew, supports what Tom Horn says is true.

    You do not want a book? Do not by a book.

    Once again. THE VATICAN, THE HEAD OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, SUPPORTS WHAT IS BEING CLAIMED IN THE VIDEO BELOW IS TRUE.

    It is not difficult to understand how that is absolutely mind blowing.

    Don't believe me. See for yourself. No commercials.

    FINAL POPE UPDATE!! + The Coming Alien Savior Deception with Sid Roth, Tom Horn & Cris Putnam - YouTube

    The God of Peace be with you all
    Marantha
     
  2. YeShallTread

    YeShallTread Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how much, if any, belief need be given the men on the video but it is very interesting and I appreciate your taking time to provide it for us.

    Are there alien craft/entities? Yes...of that there is no doubt. Are they demonic or are all of them demonic? I don't know but don't believe so. Is there a great deception? Yes, for God tells us there is. To deny it is to stick one's head in the sand.
     
  3. Marantha

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    You're welcome Sister. It is so much easier to not bring this kind of evidence to people's attention and just look the other way. I care to much about my fellow Brothers and Sisters to do that.

    The reason I broach these subjects is because the more that people know about these things; the fewer who will be deceived....thereby bringing a greater Harvest of Souls for our Lord Jesus Christ.

    I pray that this knowledge will save many people, and their families, from great suffering and confusion in the future.


    God Speed
    Marantha
     
  4. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    How do you know this is true? It could be true, but I'm asking you how you know? Have you read Horn's book? Have you verified the information in it? Or at this point are you just assuming that what Horn and the other guy are saying is true?

    Who is Sid Roth that what he believes or who he supports should be believed without question?

    Have you read the book?

    It would only be mind blowing if the Pope himself believed it and taught it. All I've seen so far are a few individuals who have their own personal views - not an official position of "The Vatican", or the Catholic Church.

    The video only presents what the authors' of the book claim is true...all of the actual documentation, apparently, is found in the book. So why don't you buy the book and research it for yourself before telling how true their claims are?
     
  5. Marantha

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    NumberOneSon in Italics:

    How do you know this is true? It could be true, but I'm asking you how you know? Have you read Horn's book? Have you verified the information in it? Or at this point are you just assuming that what Horn and the other guy are saying is true?

    I am saying that what Tom Horn and Chris Putnam claim is true is supported by the Vatican as being true. The quotes of high personnel from within the Vatican are listed to support their claims in the video.


    Who is Sid Roth that what he believes or who he supports should be believed without question?

    Sid Roth is a Jewish Christian. They are widely acknowledged to be EXTREMELY zealous of the truth, and very watchful for error.

    Paul evens says in Romans the Jewish Christians have an advantage in every way. No one said we should believe all of what he says without question.After research many find that Jewish Christians are some of the most passionate and zealous Christians in the world.



    Have you read the book?

    This video is self-supporting in what it presents. The book is summed up by what they claim in the video. Those claims are acknowledged to be true by the Vatican in the video. It is not necessary to read the book, or buy anything. If the Vatican was not validating what these Christian men claim I would not be presenting this video here. That IS the reason I present it here; as I have stated repeatedly at this point.


    It would only be mind blowing if the Pope himself believed it and taught it. All I've seen so far are a few individuals who have their own personal views - not an official position of "The Vatican", or the Catholic Church.

    The Vatican officialdom represents the pope. That's why they are in the Vatican. Popes have spoken on this very issue; including the previous.....Benedict.

    The video only presents what the authors' of the book claim is true...all of the actual documentation, apparently, is found in the book. So why don't you buy the book and research it for yourself before telling how true their claims are?

    It is not necessary to buy any book, as once again, the Vatican is validating what they claim WITHIN THIS VIDEO.

    That the Vatican supports the claims they are making IN THE VIDEO is very clear because the name of the Officials and their supporting claims are listed clearly.

    Glory Be to Christ
    Marantha
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  6. baseballgal

    baseballgal Member

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    Yes, Vatican officials have come out in recent years and said that aliens are our brothers and would likely be more perfect than us.

    Google it. It's out there for anyone who looks.
     
  7. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Ok, but here’s what you’re not understanding; just because there are people within the Vatican who believe certain things, it does not mean that they are taught by “The Vatican”. Even if you could find a Vatican approved newspaper that supported Jesus being a star baby, or aliens bringing salvation, those ideas still would not represent the position of “The Vatican” or the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

    I don’t think we should believe any of it until we examine the evidence for ourselves.

    The only thing that is acknowledged in that video are supposed quotes from Vatican researchers who believe this stuff - there is nothing presented in that video from “The Vatican”, and none of it represents the official teaching of the Catholic Church.

    If you say it’s not necessary, then you are suggesting that we believe what they are saying “without question”. The only way to verify the truthfulness of their research is either to speak to the people they spoke with or examine the book’s references (if Horn and Putnum supply any). Otherwise you’re essentially saying the book is true because Horn and Putnum say it’s true…which goes back to believing without question.

    I don’t think you know how the Vatican works. Just because Guy Consolmagno works as a Vatican astronomer doesn’t mean that his views on aliens represent “The Vatican”. But don’t take my word for it - I encourage you to post your questions on the Catholic board and ask them if the views reflected in that video represent the Vatican. I’ll bet my hat that the response you’ll get will be a resounding “no”.

    The popes have spoken on there not being a conflict between extraterrestrial life and the Catholic faith…but there haven’t been any popes that have spoken on Jesus “sun babies” or looking to aliens for our salvation. Those kinds of things are very much the opinions of individuals, not “the Vatican”.

    Again, not “The Vatican”. The “prophecy” of St. Malachi is not taught by the Magisterium; Jesus “star baby” is not taught by the Magisterium; “alien saviors” is not taught by the Magisterium. "High personnel" is not the same as "the Magisterium". Again, ask a Catholic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  8. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    "Vatican officials" does not equal "The Vatican". I know, it's kinda confusing, but check with the Catholic board and they'll fill you in on the differences.
     
  9. baseballgal

    baseballgal Member

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    Numberoneson,

    Those whom Obama appoints speak for this government. In the same manner, those whom the Vatican appoints speak for the Vatican. Who else speaks for Vatican beliefs on astronomy other than the Vatican astronomers, particularly the main astronomer. You seem to think that Vatican astronomers don't work or speak for the Vatican astronomy department.
     
  10. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    You're argument is not with me....go to the Catholic board and ask them if the views of Vatican astronomers or "high" Vatican officials represent the position of the Vatican.

    The government of the Holy See is an entirely different animal from the American government.
     
  11. baseballgal

    baseballgal Member

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    So it is your belief that the Vatican astronomers and various popes have been speaking for themselves even though they have spoken from their position of authority within the Vatican?
     
  12. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Again, this doesn't have anything to do with what you or I "believe"...it's about how the Catholic Church operates. Yes, a Vatican astronomer can say something crazy like "aliens will soon come to save us all", and that declaration will not make it the position of the Vatican. That's just not how it works. Even though a pope could have his own opinion about extraterrestrial life, his personal views will not necessarily represent the position of "the Vatican".

    Don't take my word for it - simply go to the Catholic board and ask. They are pretty knowledgeable about their churches organization.
     
  13. Marantha

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    NumberOneSon,

    Please validate your disbelief in this material by explaining to me why the Vatican would build and staff continuously a top resolution observatory on the top of Mount. Graham.

    Then please explain why they would, as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, name an infared attachment to one of their telescopes the L.U.C.I.F.E.R. device; which is obviously an abomination to every believer in the Church.

    Then please explain to those here why the VATICAN astronomers in that observatory are reporting seeing a steady enough stream of U.F.O's as to be ANNOYED by the multitude of sightings.

    Without these explanations, just for a start, your points of disagreement stand invalid.



    Come Lord Jesus
    Marantha
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  14. baseballgal

    baseballgal Member

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    Speaking for myself, I don't believe it matters. The world has been prepared for a delusion so powerful that even the elect of Israel would be deceived during that time if they didn't love the truth. The fact that governments, government officials and religious organizations are declassifying information about "aliens" should send up a big red flag to those who know what the Bible has to say. Add in the propaganda that Hollywood has been producing over the years to desensitize the public, and we're one glorious day away from that delusion being established on earth as scientific fact with those "in the know" confirming it.
     
  15. Marantha

    Marantha Newbie

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  16. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Vatican Observatory FAQs
    Here’s the observatory’s mission statement:

    “From Leo XIII's letter, Motu Proprio, establishing the Vatican Observatory in 1891, to show that "the Church and her Pastors are not opposed to true and solid science, whether human or divine, but that they embrace it, encourage it, and promote it with the fullest possible dedication": i.e., to counteract claims of obscurantism on part of Church. Now its mission is more to do good science, for its own sake, and to be a bridge between Church and Science”

    One of the questions asked says, “is the Church looking for something in space, for example, a sign above…”, and the answer given is:

    “No - despite the suspicions of some”.

    I’ll tell you what, Maranatha, I’ll do you one better; Since Guy Consolmagno’s email is listed on the observatory’s website, I’ll personally contact him to see if what Horn stated represents his position and if his views represent the position of the Vatican. If he writes back, I’ll let you know what he has to say.

    Fair enough?

    They didn’t. The device was designed and named by a consortium of German engineers, not the Vatican. The entire telescope is not LUCIFER, just the one device. The real name of the device is Large Binocular Telescope Near-infrared Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit for Extragalactic Research….so technically it’s real acronym is LBTNUCIFUER. Not nearly so scary now, huh?

    See this video at the 5:27 mark: watch?v=uxPhI3Ue92E

    I’d have to know if they were referring to unidentified objects or space craft. I’m sure observers see plenty of flying objects they can’t identify…but that doesn’t mean they think they are alien space craft.

    LOL, my points of disagreement were that we shouldn’t believe Horn’s claims without documentation, and that your views on the Vatican don’t line up with what the Catholic Church teaches or believes...those points stand regardless of how much information I provide. How about while I'm waiting to hear back from Consolmagno you do your part and ask the Catholics if the opinion of a group of high-up Vatican officials is considered the position of the Vatican.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
  17. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

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    Hi 1.7!

    Marantha never does 'his part', which he sees to be more of an advisory role. Advising you to 'just believe' his videos, which he still seems to relish doing even after the March debacle! Oh you scoffer you! ;)
     
  18. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

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    Hi, this is a response to Bible 2 that tried to make AD70 irrelevant by playing semantic games over 'building' verses temple, so please excuse any 'accusations' here because they are not addressed to you but Bible2.

    Bible2… 3 reasons Aod Was in AD70!

    Modern Jews are lost without their temple. The sacrificial system, which was the WHOLE POINT of Jesus quoting the AoD in Matt and Mark, has been desolate for 2000 years. The Abomination that caused the Desolation of the sacrificial system by DESTROYING THE ACTUAL TEMPLE has completely fulfilled the 3 main parts of the prophecy:
    1. It was a thorough and complete AoD, exponentially longer than the Jewish Exile into Babylon and Persia. For 2000 years the sacrificial system has been desolate: broken, not working, defunct. For 2000 years Christians have trusted in Christ's perfect death instead as God's kingdom grows out of one nationally defined border into a worldwide kingdom. For 2000 years the AoD has been fulfilled spiritually in God's utter abandonment of that old covenant system.
    2. The BUILDINGS were destroyed. I really don't care what you say about the word 'structures' or 'edifice' because you're just playing childish semantic games to avoid the point. The TEMPLE BUILDINGS WERE destroyed. Luke confirms that they were looking at the TEMPLE when they said all this, throwing light on Matthew and Mark's use of the word 'buildings'. You just cannot wriggle out of that because of some Jewish sentimental wailing at the retaining wall. That simply wasn't the focus of the discussion. The TEMPLE was the focus because THAT is where the sacrifice is held, THAT is where the abomination occurred that ended that sacrifice, and THAT is what the Romans pulled down stone from stone because when the temple burned all the temple gold leaked down into the drains.
    3. The horrors of the destruction of Jerusalem and the loss of life were immense and unequalled, as far as I know, in Jerusalem's history. The Crusades possibly wiped out somewhere between 1 to 3 million people over nearly 300 years.
    List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    But Josephus reports Titus killed over 1.1 million Jews in that one event!

    Face it: the abomination that caused the desolation of the daily sacrifice, the destruction of the temple buildings so that not ONE building has one stone upon another, and that wiped out 1.1 million Jews occurred in AD70. However we are to read the Olivet discourse, we know that the AoD was predicted and accurately fulfilled. And the retaining wall has nothing to do with anything! It simply wasn't on Jesus radar or something the Christians flocked to to protect them when Titus destroyed the Jewish faith, identity, and nation by trashing their city, their temple, and dispersing their people across the ancient world!

    What about Luke 19's 'every stone in Jerusalem'?
    Decent historians and theologians look at the events of Titus conquest of Israel with loathing and amazement, and even a little dread at the thoroughness of God's judgement against the old covenant. You never seem to recognise literary forms, and so protesting against the Luke 19 like this is more like a kid sulking that their pet theory was proved wrong than any kind of forceful argument. The 3 reasons I gave above are more than enough to convince most bible scholars I read that the AoD happened in AD70. Jerusalem, her faith, and her people were TRASHED! The 'not one stone upon another' does not have to literally apply to every single stone on every building across the entirety of Jerusalem, as Jesus OFTEN uses Hyperbole. Look it up, you don't seem to be very informed of literary forms. (If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. etc).

    43 For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side 44 and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
     
  19. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

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    Well, I just sent the email and we'll have to see if he responds. Here's a copy of what I asked...

    Br. Consolmagno,

    Hello, my name is (Number0neSon) and I’m from the US. I’m sorry to bother you, but I’m sending you this email because I’m on a fact-checking mission of sorts. There are two Protestants named Tom Horn and Cris Putnum who appeared on a television program in 2012 and claimed to have conducted five interviews with you over the phone, and they are using what was said in those interviews to buttress a new book they have written entitled, Petrus Romanus . It’s basically a book using the infamous prophecies of St. Malachi to state that Pope Francis will be the pope to usher in the antichrist.

    Anyway, Tom Horn quoted you as saying that the nations will soon look to aliens for mankind’s salvation, and that you gave him access toVatican documents showing that the “highest level” Vatican theologians and astronomers believe that Jesus might have been the son of a star child, and that the virgin birth was comparable to an alien abduction.

    Needless to say, I am extremely skeptical of all of this, so I was wondering if you remember being interviewed by Horn and if any of the claims are an accurate representation of whatever the two of you talked about over the phone.

    If you’re interested in seeing what I’m talking about, you can watch the interview with Horn and Putnum at the link below. The claims they made about you can be found between the 14:54-16:30 minute marks.
    FINAL POPE UPDATE!! + The Coming Alien Savior Deception with Sid Roth, Tom Horn & Cris Putnam - YouTube

    Again, I apologize for the non-astronomical nature of this inquiry (I’m sure you’re doing an amazing job), but I’m extremely curious to know if they are telling the truth about the nature of your interviews or are making things up to sell their book.

    Thank you for your time,

    (Number0neSon)
     
  20. eclipsenow

    eclipsenow God cares about his creation as well as us.

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    Thanks for all your work on this one NumberOne!
     
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