The Great Tribulation: 66-70 AD, or

[Lost4words]

As i have said numerous times, Revelation is the most misinterpreted and misunderstood book in the Bible.

 

[DavidPT]

Study Josephus on the destruction of Jerusalem. It will answer many of your questions and make things more clear.

Are the writings of Josephus holy writ? Did any of his writings make it into the Bible?

 

[DavidPT]

What we refer to as the great tribulation is still to happen in the future. The Matthew 24 portion of the Olivet discourse describes the 7 year great tribulation while the Luke 21 portion focuses more on teh judgment against Israel in 70 Ad for teh unpardonable sin the nation committed in Matt. 12 via the Pharisees.

Only through spiritualizing or mysticizing the Book of REvelation (preterism) do we see a fulffilment of the great tribulation in 66-70 AD. It takes an "allegorical re-writing" to make the book of REvelation and most of Matthew 24 fit into the siege of Rime by Titus.

There is no 7 year tribulation. The GT is only 3.5 years. It's meaning the 42 month reign of the beast. That reign is not 7 years, it's only 3.5 years. The GT begins mid 70th week. It's right there in Matthew 24. It's connected with the AOD.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

When? 3.5 years prior to verse 15? No. As of verse 15, the middle of the 70th week, therefore making the GT 3.5 years, not 7 years. There is no 7 year GT recorded in the Bible.

 

[nolidad]

There is no 7 year tribulation. The GT is only 3.5 years. It's meaning the 42 month reign of the beast. That reign is not 7 years, it's only 3.5 years. The GT begins mid 70th week. It's right there in Matthew 24. It's connected with the AOD.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

When? 3.5 years prior to verse 15? No. As of verse 15, the middle of the 70th week, therefore making the GT 3.5 years, not 7 years. There is no 7 year GT recorded in the Bible.

Technically speaking you are correct. I am using it in the colloquial recognized sense. There is a 7 year period, Daniels 70 th week, that is spoken of much in the OT, but a strict view is that the "great tribulation" is only the last 3 1/2 of the 70th week of Daniel.

 

[DavidPT]

As i have said numerous times, Revelation is the most misinterpreted and misunderstood book in the Bible.

Not only do a lot of futurists, so not all futurists then, prove that point, but so do pretty much every Preterist, as in pretty much every single one, do as well.

 

[nolidad]

Not only do a lot of futurists, so not all futurists then, prove that point, but so do pretty much every Preterist, as in pretty much every single one, do as well.

The biggest problem that dispensational writers have in dealing with eschatology is trying to set dates and define events that as of yet cannot be known with certainty.

I have taught Eschatology on a college level for over 25 years now and I am very careful from committing the grave error many make-- "newspaper exegesis". Trying to make scripture fit current events instead of seeing oif current events match what SCripture says.

I even did a radio show when Desert Storm 1 took place in the 1990's. I told the audience that that war as not any fulfillment of any biblical prophecy! I did say that it COULD (and I emphasized only could) lay down things for prophecy to be fulfilled later! Same with Desert Shield and the present trouble in the ME. The only prohecy it does fulfill is what Jesus said in Mat.. 24:

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Right now things that have fulfilled prophecy either directly or implicitly are:

1. May 14, 1948 when Israel became a nation again after almost a 1900 year diaspora.
2. June of 1967 when Israel regained all of Jerusalem.
3. The preparations for a rebuilt temple ( I have been to Israel and seen the blueprints and the instruments of temple service)

Still to come before the Tribulation ( I prefer to call it the 70th week of Daniel) in no specific order

1. Russia and her allies invading Israel (Ez. 38-39)
2. a 1 world govt. (the next phase of the fourth beast gentile kingdom)
3. the ten rulers ruling the world after the failure of the 1 world govt. (the ten horns)
4. The rise of the antichrist
5. The rapture of the church
6. Antichrist signing a 7 year covenant with Israel which begins the 70th week of Daniel!

Then all hell breaks loose on earth as God begins to prepare Israel to receive Her Messiah and punish the World for rejecting Him.

 

[parousia70]

It is what Jesus said. It's part of His Revelation to His churches. You don't offer any proof that the beast does not need to first ascend out of the abyss before it can make war against the saints and overcome them.
......Remember that the above verses are talking about a Great Tribulation that results in the Lord's return when He returns "immediately after" the tribulation of those days (Matthew 24:29) - not the tribulation to be suffered by all Christians at various times throughout the gospel Age.

Why are you removing the original recipients of the Letters, to whom Jesus directly addressed them to, from ANY application? Where does scripture teach you to claim that When Jesus said He was coming as a thief to 1st century Sardis Church, for example - (Revelation 3:3), that He didn't mean it for THEM specifically, and in fact didn't mean it for THEM at all? How were those people supposed to know He didn't mean it for them?

 

[nolidad]

Why are you removing the original recipients of the Letters, to whom Jesus directly addressed them to, from ANY application? Where does scripture teach you to claim that When Jesus said He was coming as a thief to 1st century Sardis Church, for example - (Revelation 3:3), that He didn't mean it for THEM specifically, and in fact didn't mean it for THEM at all? How were those people supposed to know He didn't mean it for them?

He did come as a thief to those not looking and removed their light! Just as He does for all who do not get truly saved but only make some king of emotional religious action!

It was for them and for all ages of teh church as well! God was smart enough when He inspired these writers to write, to insure what would be recorded was for posterity as well as the present in cases like this.

He was also smart enough to insure that those who chose which letters and writings would become what we call the New Testament to add only those writings that were sufficient for teh church to grow and learn to love Him more!

 

[shilohsfoal]

All those who claim that the Great Tribulation already happened couldn't be more wrong. The Great Tribulation is said to be worse than the Flood and Sodom and Gomorah. Do you feel like this already happened? No way. First comes the rapture, only then the Great Tribulation starts. The Great Tribulation is the reign of antichrist. Just in the beginning of the Great Tribulation the book of revelation states that one third of the earth's population will be killed. And old testament talks about it in a way only very few will be here on Earth, the whole world will be destroyed. Do you feel like this happened? Of course not. The bible does not support that the Great Tribulation has happened in 70 ad. The Great Tribulation will end with Christ returning on the Mount of Olives.

The great tribulation is not the reign of an antichrist.
There is tribulation and there is great tribulation.
The saints in Israel suffer tribulation for 42 months under Israeli law.
There will be great tribulation at the end of the 42 months and it has to do with an object placed by the armed forces of the north.
Tribulation=persecution
Great tribulation=destruction

Daniel was told that at the time of great tribulation, his people would be delivered and many of those who sleep in the dust shall awake.

 

[jgr]

Are the writings of Josephus holy writ? Did any of his writings make it into the Bible?

Josephus was a direct eyewitness to much or most of what he recorded, giving historical confirmation of Jesus' predictions.

Modernist dispensational speculation can make no such claim.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Josephus was a direct eyewitness to much or most of what he recorded, giving historical confirmation of Jesus' predictions.

Modernist dispensational speculation can make no such claim.

99 percent of what Jesus said was not witnessed by Josephus.

 

[BABerean2]

The Matthew 24 portion of the Olivet discourse describes the 7 year great tribulation while the Luke 21 portion focuses more on teh judgment against Israel in 70 Ad for teh unpardonable sin the nation committed in Matt. 12 via the Pharisees.

See Post number 42 above...

The Great Tribulation: 66-70 AD, or
.

 

[shilohsfoal]

There is no 7 year tribulation. The GT is only 3.5 years. It's meaning the 42 month reign of the beast. That reign is not 7 years, it's only 3.5 years. The GT begins mid 70th week. It's right there in Matthew 24. It's connected with the AOD.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

When? 3.5 years prior to verse 15? No. As of verse 15, the middle of the 70th week, therefore making the GT 3.5 years, not 7 years. There is no 7 year GT recorded in the Bible.

I agree there is not 7 year tribulation. There is only 3.5 years the saints in Israel have tribulation.(are persecuted)
But the great tribulation is at the end of the 42 months.
Christ said that when the abomination of desolation is placed, there would be great tribulation. That is at the end of the 42 months.
Daniel was told that when the king of the north goes forth in great fury to destroy and utterly make away many in 11:44 that at that time there would be distress unlike there has ever been before and at that time his people would be delivered and many who sleep in the dust shall awake at that time.

Compare

Daniel 12:1 NIV: "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.

Compare

Matthew 24:21 NIV: For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.


The abomination of desolation happens the same day of the resurrection, as evidence of the cloud ascending from Jerusalem the same day the two witnesses come back to life.

 

[jgr]

99 percent of what Jesus said was not witnessed by Josephus.

100% of what Jesus said is incomprehensible to dispensational delusionism.

 

[DavidPT]

Josephus was a direct eyewitness to much or most of what he recorded, giving historical confirmation of Jesus' predictions.

Modernist dispensational speculation can make no such claim.

I'm not entirely certain what might make one a modernist dispensationalist? For instance, I believe the 70th week to be in the end of this age, yet I don't take it to be involving literal brick and mortar temples in Jerusalem, nor do I believe in a Pretrib rapture. Does this still make me a modernist dispensationalist, regardless? But I do tend to think the unbelieving Jews currently occupying the holy land in the middle east, they are there because God gathered them back there last century in order to fulfill the events recorded in Ezekiel 38-39, for one.

 

[klutedavid]

As i have said numerous times, Revelation is the most misinterpreted and misunderstood book in the Bible.

I would add the book of Daniel to that.

 

[shilohsfoal]

100% of what Jesus said is incomprehensible to dispensational delusionism.

You claim the unbeliever Josephus witnessed Jesus words. Why didn't anyone who believed in Jesus witness what Jesus said?

It seems a shame when the only person you have to trust is a blind Pharisees.

 

[keras]

Josephus was a direct eyewitness to much or most of what he recorded, giving historical confirmation of Jesus' predictions.

Modernist dispensational speculation can make no such claim.

This is an unwarranted assertion.
Because the things which are prophesied for the end times, still await fulfilment. Like the old saying: It not over until it's all over.

I suppose people who live in safe and prosperous countries, have difficulty in seeing how bad and how suddenly their lifestyle could be changed.
Bible prophecy clearly states that a sudden and dramatic change is coming to all the world. God has informed us of it, why should Christians not be aware and ready for it?

 

[jgr]

You claim the unbeliever Josephus witnessed Jesus words. Why didn't anyone who believed in Jesus witness what Jesus said?

It seems a shame when the only person you have to trust is a blind Pharisees.

Because, not being dispensational futurists, they all heeded Jesus' warning (Matthew 24:16; Luke 21:21; Mark 13:14), fled to the mountains, and did not perish.

There was no believer left to be a witness.

 

[parousia70]

He did come as a thief to those not looking and removed their light!

The main problem with this view is that Jesus never teaches that he would come as a thief multiple times.

So, What evidence do you have that He did this?