The Great Tribulation: 66-70 AD, or

[shilohsfoal]

I still have reservations about Daniel 11 applying to end of this age but I'll grant that maybe I'll be enjoying my roasted hat when/if the time for that comes.

You believe the great tribulation was in 70 AD?

 

[BABerean2]

the entirety of the great tribulation is still future and the abomination of desolation is going to happen in the temple with exactly 42 months to go.

What is the probability of the same common elements in the two passages below, without them being related?
Most Bible scholars agree that the first part of Luke 21:24 is about what happened during 70 AD.


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations...


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[BABerean2]

Good post. Excellent post.

Although I am aware that many Rabbis and Jewish leaders have such a desire, I have no info about globalists planning to make earthly Jerusalem the capital of the One World Govt. Maybe you have some sources for me?

This may take several posts.
However, the following would be a good place to start.

Globalist banker Jacob Rothschild is one of the wealthiest, and most powerful men in the world.
In the video below he explains how his family created the modern State of Israel.

Rothschild does not mention God during the presentation.

.

 

[Zao is life]

The temple mount.

My reasoning is that the image of the beast (the abomination of desolation) comes to life and people must worship it. A statue image in the likeness of the beast person.

Which to worship it, it must be seen. Which would put it out in the open on the temple mount grounds. And because of the time constraints involved, the sanctuary building will likely be a minimum size in order to get the temple ordinances going as quickly as possible, so not enough room inside, for the statue image. The beast person though will be going in and out of the temple sanctuary building.

The other reason for it being out in the open on the temple mount, where people stroll today (under armed guards) is that the false prophet, the one who requires everyone worship the image will apparently gather or force people to gather to worship that image - with guillotines not far away for those who refuse. So there is going to have to a lot of room, open space, available.

Which Jesus gave the warning for them in Judea, to flee to the mountains, when they see abominations standing in the holy place.

To know what makes the image comes to life, it is necessary to go to
Ezekiel 28:16-19. The judgement and exposure of Satan. End of Satan as a terror. Which he will be having great wrath for that time, times, half time - to the inhabiters of the earth in Revelation 12:12.

Satan will be cast down to earth - which will happen in Revelation 12:7-9.

Satan will be exposed for everyone to see... at the end of the time, times, half time.

God will bring a fire up in Satan's midst. And brings him to ashes. Ezekiel 28:18. Exposing him - to everyone that has known him in some way - who will be shocked when they see him. Ezekiel 28:19.

That some way - is that Satan will be incarnating the great statue image. And is how people will worship Satan (perhaps unknowingly) in Revelation 13:4.

Satan has to be present visible to everyone at Jesus's return of Revelation 20:1-3. Jesus's place of return is on the Mt. of Olives directly across from the temple mount.

The false prophet and the beast person will be on the temple mount as well.

So putting it all together, the false prophet has the statue image made, and placed on the temple mount grounds, out in the open, not in the sanctuary building.

in-animate, until Satan is cast down to earth. Which Satan incarnates the image, lying miracle by the false prophet, making it come to life and speak.

People will be required to bow to the image. Either they do, or don't and be killed for not doing so.

When Jesus returns, the brightness of his coming causes the image to go up in flames, and brought to ashes, exposing Satan for everyone to see. And after the casting of the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire. And the armies gathered to fight Jesus fall dead, after witnessing those things. Satan then will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit.

Thanks. Interesting p.o.v.

There is also the fact that there are only two men called "the son of perdition" in the New Testament: Judas Iscariot, and the man of sin - and we are told that Satan entered the first son of perdition.

Would this "image" that "speaks" perhaps not be a man who exalts himself above all that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sits as God in God's temple, claiming to be God? If that temple were a Christian Church built in the outer court of a "third temple", would it also be a structure/building on the temple Mount?

The Rabbis speak of their "Third Temple" as a place of worship for all nations, citing Isaiah chapter 2.

I don't have "the answer" to this. But there is going to be an apostasy from the faith and this will give rise to the revelation of the second and last son of perdition.

 

[Victor in Christ]

This may take several posts.
However, the following would be a good place to start.

Globalist banker Jacob Rothschild is one of the wealthiest, and most powerful men in the world.
In the video below he explains how his family created the modern State of Israel.

Rothschild does not mention God during the presentation.

.

its my belief they are more interested in Hiram abiff than Jesus Christ. By-passing Christ thinking their God's in their own right like Pope Pius X (who was a mason). More into man-made mysticism than salvation through Christ.

Were the Rothschild's in contact with Theodor Herzl, Pope Pius X, Nahum Sokolow, world leaders, Kings, princes, principalities to 'bind on Earth' physically what will supposedly be bound in heaven?

 

[renniks]

Question:

The Great Tribulation AD66-70 (Roman war against Judah)? or 42-month reign of the beast at the end of the Age?

OR.. ?

View attachment 280829​

AD 66-70.

 

[Zao is life]

You believe the great tribulation was in 70 AD?

No. I believe AD 70 is a probably Biblical type of what is to come. I don't have what is to come linked to Daniel 11, although Daniel 12 suggests you may very well be correct, because the language of the first verse of Daniel 12 links it to what was spoken before in chapter 11, or at least the closing verses of chapter 11. But I still think that chapter 11 is speaking of Antiochus - but like AD70, that could also be a type of what is to come.

 

[Douggg]

Would this "image" that "speaks" perhaps not be a man who exalts himself above all that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sits as God in God's temple, claiming to be God? If that temple were a Christian Church built in the outer court of a "third temple", would it also be a structure/building on the temple Mount?

A man is not the image (the "abomination" of desolation), because the False Prophet has the people of the world make the image. Revelation 13:14.

But the son of perdition, the revealed man of sin, in 2Thessalonians2:3-4, is man who will claim to have achieved God hood, and will go into the temple sanctuary building, sit, as his declaration of being God. Probably is gong to take a film crew inside for everyone around the world to see it.

That act is called the "transgression" of desolation. Because he transgresses, in the worst way, the Mt. Sinai covenant he will have confirmed (via big speech from the temple mount) as the Jews' perceived messiah about three years earlier. Daniel 9:27.

The transgression of desolation in the text is found in Daniel 8:12-13.
_________________________________________________

Speaking of images, there have been hundreds of idol images made. But none of those images, made from wood and stone, ever came to life and speak.

There has been only one image made and come to life, and speak. Guess who that is?

Man. God made man from the dust of the earth, in God's image, and breathed life into him.

The false prophet does miracles in the presence of the beast person, who will claim to be God. So, it appears, that bringing the inanimate object to life, breathing and speaking - will be a claimed similar act.

 

[Randy777]

Question:

The Great Tribulation AD66-70 (Roman war against Judah)? or 42-month reign of the beast at the end of the Age?

OR.. ?

View attachment 280829​

There is but one great tribulation and it comes on the whole world. It is still to come.
The beast in Daniel, the gospels in 2thess and revelation is conquering everything for those 42 months. Even the saints. In all those cases when the time runs out, which was shortened for the sake of the elect, Jesus or noted God or the Lord appears and destroys the beast and the armies following the beast and pronounces judgment in favor of the saints of the most high. That didn't happen in the 1st century. In Zach 14 the mount of olives is split in two to make a way of escape from the surrounding armies. Those armies are destroyed from above NOT mankind. That didn't happen in the 1st century. Go and see if the mount of olives is whole.

The bowl judgments are the last of Gods judgments for with them His wrath has been completed. They are the judgments that plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness. The beast that kills the two witnesses in "Jerusalem" after their testimony has been completed which the "whole world" looked on. That beast was noted to reign for 42 months. Jesus destroys that beast at His coming for the great battle of God almighty. Rev 16:15

 

[Zao is life]

A man is not the image (the "abomination" of desolation), because the False Prophet has the people of the world make the image. Revelation 13:14.

But the son of perdition, the revealed man of sin, in 2Thessalonians2:3-4, is man who will claim to have achieved God hood, and will go into the temple sanctuary building, sit, as his declaration of being God. Probably is gong to take a film crew inside for everyone around the world to see it.

That act is called the "transgression" of desolation. Because he transgresses, in the worst way, the Mt. Sinai covenant he will have confirmed (via big speech from the temple mount) as the Jews' perceived messiah about three years earlier. Daniel 9:27.

The transgression of desolation in the text is found in Daniel 8:12-13.
_________________________________________________

Speaking of images, there have been hundreds of idol images made. But none of those images, made from wood and stone, ever came to life and speak.

There has been only one image made and come to life, and speak. Guess who that is?

Man. God made man from the dust of the earth, in God's image, and breathed life into him.

The false prophet does miracles in the presence of the beast person, who will claim to be God. So, it appears, that bringing the inanimate object to life, breathing and speaking - will be a claimed similar act.

OK. I think the possibility exists that at the very least the man of sin, like Judas who betrayed the Lord even though he was known as one of the Lord's disciples and one of the inner circle of 12, will be a Judas-icer who leads Christians to worship and offer sacrifices at the "temple". But I'm filling in the gaps with my own imagination, so I only keep these things in mind without turning them into doctrine.

 

[Zao is life]

There is but one great tribulation and it comes on the whole world. It is still to come.
The beast in Daniel, the gospels in 2thess and revelation is conquering everything for those 42 months. Even the saints. In all those cases when the time runs out, which was shortened for the sake of the elect, Jesus or noted God or the Lord appears and destroys the beast and the armies following the beast and pronounces judgment in favor of the saints of the most high. That didn't happen in the 1st century. In Zach 14 the mount of olives is split in two to make a way of escape from the surrounding armies. Those armies are destroyed from above NOT mankind. That didn't happen in the 1st century. Go and see if the mount of olives is whole.

The bowl judgments are the last of Gods judgments for with them His wrath has been completed. They are the judgments that plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness. The beast that kills the two witnesses in "Jerusalem" after their testimony has been completed which the "whole world" looked on. That beast was noted to reign for 42 months. Jesus destroys that beast at His coming for the great battle of God almighty. Rev 16:15

Yes. That's exactly the way I see it:

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was on the waters of the river, when he held up his right and his left hand to Heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half. And when they have made an end of scattering the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Rev 10:5- And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the earth lifted his hand to the heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created the heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there should no longer be time. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets.

So there will be a time, times and a half a time during which the power of the holy people will be scattered (also in Revelation 13:7) and when this time is up, the seventh trumpet sounds, and the beast is defeated by the return of Christ and then destroyed in the LOF.

 

[shilohsfoal]

No. I believe AD 70 is a probably Biblical type of what is to come. I don't have what is to come linked to Daniel 11, although Daniel 12 suggests you may very well be correct, because the language of the first verse of Daniel 12 links it to what was spoken before in chapter 11, or at least the closing verses of chapter 11. But I still think that chapter 11 is speaking of Antiochus - but like AD70, that could also be a type of what is to come.

Read the following verses carefully keeping them in context and then answer this question.
How can you have great tribulation without the abomination if desolation?

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),
Matthew 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Matthew 24:17 Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house.
Matthew 24:18 And let no one in the field return for his cloak.
Matthew 24:19 How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers!
Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath.
Matthew 24:21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.

What do you believe causes the great tribulation in the above verse?
Remember to keep it in context.

 

[BABerean2]

Were the Rothschild's in contact with Theodor Herzl, Pope Pius X, Nahum Sokolow, world leaders, Kings, princes, principalities to 'bind on Earth' physically what will supposedly be bound in heaven?

The Israeli Parliament Building found in the video below was designed and financed by the Rothschild family.

The all-seeing eye and pyramid is a prominent feature of the building.
It is the same masonic symbol found on the back of the One Dollar bill.

Embedded within the architecture of the building are numerous symbols which reveal who the building is dedicated to.

.

 

[grafted branch]

So I was about to edit it to add "not unbelieving Jews" but then I thought, "No one will be childish enough to call that up because everyone understands that saints are believing Jews and believing Gentiles.

But then again.. no doubt, someone might decide to call that up - so I will edit it now.

Saints <40> sacred (phys. pure, mor. blameless or religious, cer. consecrated):-(most) holy (one, thing), saint.

Based on verses such as Deuteronomy 14:2, the saints can be considered as national Israel. The saints can also certainly be believers; however the beast in Revelation 13:7 is given to make war and overcome them.

Overcome <3528> to subdue (lit. or fig.):-conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory.

In Revelation 12:11 the dragon can be overcome by the blood of the Lamb. The dragon gives his power, seat, and authority to the beast in Revelation 13. If the dragon can be overcome by the blood of the Lamb, then what ever power he has given to the beast, he can also be overcome by the blood of the Lamb. It doesn’t seem likely that believers will be able to overcome the beast while simultaneously the beast overcomes believers.

Nothing can separate a true believer from the love of God (Romans 8:38-39) and even in death we still magnify Christ as the last part of Philippians 1:20 states “so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death”. Since believers want the scriptures to be fulfilled exactly as described, they can’t be overcome regardless of when Revelation 13 takes place. The only choice left for who “the saints” are is national Israel.

The only way I see believers being overcome is if someone holds the doctrine that they can lose their salvation. I believe in O.S.A.S (once saved always saved).

 

[Dave L]

What or where is "the holy place"? Is it the church/temple? Or something that God does not consider His temple?

Why are those dwelling in Judea told to flee? Why is Judea, specifically, mentioned?

I'm asking, not because I'm offering answers that I don't have, but because I'd like to know what you believe.

Study Josephus on the destruction of Jerusalem. It will answer many of your questions and make things more clear.

 

[Douggg]

OK. I think the possibility exists that at the very least the man of sin, like Judas who betrayed the Lord even though he was known as one of the Lord's disciples and one of the inner circle of 12, will be a Judas-icer who leads Christians to worship and offer sacrifices at the "temple". But I'm filling in the gaps with my own imagination, so I only keep these things in mind without turning them into doctrine.

"Judas-icer" ? I think the term you are thinking of is Judaizer, i.e people who want to Christians to strictly follow the laws as the Jews do. Anyway that is not why the person is called the son of perdition like Judas was.

The person is called the son of perdition like Judas was is because Satan will influence the person to betray Israel; similar to Judas who was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus.

The great falling away in Christianity will be because many in Christianity will depart Jesus, and believe the Antichrist person is the messiah; before the person reveals himself to be the man of sin - and not the messiah after all.

 

[Victor in Christ]

The Israeli Parliament Building found in the video below was designed and financed by the Rothschild family.

The all-seeing eye and pyramid is a prominent feature of the building.
It is the same masonic symbol found on the back of the One Dollar bill.

Embedded within the architecture of the building are numerous symbols which reveal who the building is dedicated to.

.

Its all God's will. I pray for Jew and Gentile alike, that the holy spirit will prick their heart and show them the light to salvation through Jesus Christ. We as Christians are no better than the people we are studying, we need to be like Isaiah and say "woe is me", take the beam out of our own eye, so we can see the Lord clearly and instruct others unto the way of salvation.

Amen

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

All those who claim that the Great Tribulation already happened couldn't be more wrong. The Great Tribulation is said to be worse than the Flood and Sodom and Gomorah. Do you feel like this already happened? No way. First comes the rapture, only then the Great Tribulation starts. The Great Tribulation is the reign of antichrist. Just in the beginning of the Great Tribulation the book of revelation states that one third of the earth's population will be killed. And old testament talks about it in a way only very few will be here on Earth, the whole world will be destroyed. Do you feel like this happened? Of course not. The bible does not support that the Great Tribulation has happened in 70 ad. The Great Tribulation will end with Christ returning on the Mount of Olives.

 

[DavidPT]

Plus Revelation 1 mentions 'Must soon take place' and 'For the time is near'

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.

So you think Revelation 20:7-15 already came to pass 2000 years ago as well?



Is not Revelation 20:7-15 something that has to come to pass? That means you have to include it with this part---things which must shortly come to pass---don't you think?

 

[nolidad]

Question:

The Great Tribulation AD66-70 (Roman war against Judah)? or 42-month reign of the beast at the end of the Age?

OR.. ?

View attachment 280829​

What we refer to as the great tribulation is still to happen in the future. The Matthew 24 portion of the Olivet discourse describes the 7 year great tribulation while the Luke 21 portion focuses more on teh judgment against Israel in 70 Ad for teh unpardonable sin the nation committed in Matt. 12 via the Pharisees.

Only through spiritualizing or mysticizing the Book of REvelation (preterism) do we see a fulffilment of the great tribulation in 66-70 AD. It takes an "allegorical re-writing" to make the book of REvelation and most of Matthew 24 fit into the siege of Rime by Titus.