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Featured The Great Tribulation: 66-70 AD, or

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Fullness of the Gentiles, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    Question:

    The Great Tribulation AD66-70 (Roman war against Judah)? or 42-month reign of the beast at the end of the Age?

    OR.. ?

    Great Tribulation.png
     
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The GT was for the Jews and happened in 70 AD. Christians have a separate ongoing great tribulation as part of their calling.
     
  3. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    That could only be true if the bottomless pit was opened at the beginning of the gospel Age:

    Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    And it was given to it to war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given to it over every tribe and tongue and nation. Revelation 13:7
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You have it backward. Read Jesus first and then interpret Revelation according to what he says.
     
  5. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    It is what Jesus said. It's part of His Revelation to His churches. You don't offer any proof that the beast does not need to first ascend out of the abyss before it can make war against the saints and overcome them.

    Revelation 17:8
    The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    Revelation 13:3
    And I saw one of its heads as having been slain to death, and its deadly wound was healed. And all the earth marveled after the beast.

    Revelation 13:7
    And it was given to it to war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given to it over every tribe and tongue and nation.

    Revelation 11:7
    And when they complete their testimony, the beast coming up out of the abyss will make war against them and will overcome them and kill them.

    Matthew 24:9
    Then they will deliver you up to be afflicted and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake.

    Remember that the above verses are talking about a Great Tribulation that results in the Lord's return when He returns "immediately after" the tribulation of those days (Matthew 24:29) - not the tribulation to be suffered by all Christians at various times throughout the gospel Age.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You have it backward. Take what Jesus says first...it happened to the Jews only in 70 AD. And then interpret Revelation symbolically as John intended, and not literally as you've been taught.
     
  7. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    OK I see you can't answer. Possibly because you are ignoring the fact that Jesus stated that His return will come "immediately after" the tribulation of those days (Matthew 24:29). Possibly because you only want half the picture Jesus gave us. The other half you prefer to ignore - otherwise you would not be ignoring the fact that Jesus stated that His return will come immediately after that great tribulation.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As I said, the Jewish tribulation of AD 70 was for them only. You are confusing Christian tribulation with that.
     
  9. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    I'm not. You just won't accept that the saints whom the beast that is to ascend from the abyss is going to make war against, are not unbelieving Jews, they are Christians.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How many times have you read the bible cover to cover? Just curious....
     
  11. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    Probably once more than you have.

    Pretending you are more qualified than me when you cannot answer does not help your case.

    Who are the saints in Revelation 13:7? Jews? Or Christians? Who is that beast? One that will rise from the bottomless pit as the Revelation states, or Nero?

    Please tell me, since you seem to know, what Jesus "actually" meant when He spoke about His coming in the clouds immediately after the tribulation He had just been telling His disciples about?
     
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  12. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There are two different "Tribulations". They are not the same.
     
  13. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    I agree. The one was the tribulation faced by the inhabitants of Judea in 70 AD.

    As I have already shown you, the only way the other Great Tribulation can refer to the tribulation faced by Christians across time, is if:

    (1) The beast has already ascended out of the abyss (Revelation 17:8 and Revelation 13:7); and
    (b) The Lord has returned in the clouds and gathered His elect (Matthew 24:29-31).

    So, please answer my questions:

    1. Has the beast already ascended out of the abyss?
    2. Has Jesus already appeared in the clouds and sent His angels to gather His elect?
     
  14. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    was it the Jesuits who came up with the idea of full-preterism (AD70) to counter the doctrine of justification through faith in Christ alone, the only mediator between God and man?
     
  15. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    The beast makes war with Christians in Israel.
    That is where the beast attacks. So if your anywhere else in the world you don't have much to worry about.

    Revelation 11:7 When the two witnesses have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will wage war with them, and will overpower and kill them.
    Revelation 11:8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city--figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where their Lord was also crucified.


    I think it safe to say there will be both Christians and jews dieing in Jerusalem that day.
    I would say there will be plenty of angry people here in the states after the beast overpowers our armed forces. Plenty of angry people wanting blood.
    It will be time to bring out the nukes and use them.
    Time for some GREAT TRIBULATION.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Why are you showing an overlap for the Great Tribulation?
     
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Jews can be Christians. It would be more correct to say what is actually in the text..."with the saints"
     
  18. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    That makes a lot more sense than the theory believed by many (which was expressed again in this thread by another poster).

    Have you noticed that we are not told that the beast rising from the sea causes all who will not worship the image to be killed - it's the beast rising from the earth which has "two horns like a lamb" which causes all dwelling on the earth to erect this image, and those to be killed who do not fall down and worship it.

    So the Revelation is making a clear distinction between the one beast and the other. The second beast, we are also told, exercises all the authority of the first in its presence.

    Joseph exercised all the authority of Pharaoh in his presence, but was not Pharaoh. The second beast exercises all the authority of the first, but it's not the first beast.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  19. Fullness of the Gentiles

    Fullness of the Gentiles One nation in Christ Supporter

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    Because there are two periods of Great Tribulation - one which is immediately followed by Christ appearing in the clouds to gather His elect - which beggars the question: Does one prophecy cover both? The one refers to the experience of those in Jerusalem in AD 70 (maybe).
     
  20. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    Yes I've noticed the first beast does not give them the mark of the beast. I've also noticed the second beast will excise all the power of the first beast on his behalf.
    Israel will be given a host.
    Daniel 11:31 KJV: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
    Daniel 11:32 KJV: And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
    Daniel 11:33 KJV: And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

    This is when Israel's cashless society is implemented.
     
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