The Great Pants Debate

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Antigone

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I don't like this woman's attitude too much considering she gives very petty reasons why she should wear "pants" and then attacks and arrogantly jokes about the virtues of modesty, motherhood(calling it a blue collar job), and her husbands words in a flippant way. I have seen many women take care of their children easily wearing skirts. I mean look at Michelle Duggar, she has almost 20 kids and always wears modest apparel. I never understood rebellion for the sake of rebellion. Personally I'll go with the bible saying


"A woman shall not be clothed with man's apparel, neither shall a man use woman's apparel : for he that doeth these things is abominable before God."

Except, of course, that Jesus didn't wear pants, and that it's possible to look like both modest and feminine in pants, and that the Bible doesn't specify what women's apparel is or ought to be. So that really is pretty much your own interpretation.

And Michelle Duggar is pregnant all the time. If had the opportunity to farm out my babies to my older kids, I could wear a prom dress for the heck of it.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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Except, of course, that Jesus didn't wear pants, and that it's possible to look like both modest and feminine in pants, and that the Bible doesn't specify what women's apparel is or ought to be. So that really is pretty much your own interpretation.

And Michelle Duggar is pregnant all the time. If had the opportunity to farm out my babies to my older kids, I could wear a prom dress for the heck of it.


I'm surprised people cannot tell the difference between a robe and a woman's skirt.

The pants that many women wear today hug their curves and their bottom. Women's pants purposely accentuate these areas. Some are so low cut that they show part of their bottom. This creates a stumbling block for others and is contrary to modesty. Clothing should not accentuate and amplify the feminine curves of the body. Clothing that does is immodest and creates a stumbling block for others by inciting lust, unwanted attention, and distraction..

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Antigone

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I'm surprised people cannot tell the difference between a robe and a woman's skirt.

The pants that many women wear today hug their curves and their bottom. Women's pants purposely accentuate these areas. Some are so low cut that they show part of their bottom. This creates a stumbling block for others and is contrary to modesty. Clothing should not accentuate and amplify the feminine curves of the body. Clothing that does is immodest and creates a stumbling block for others by inciting lust, unwanted attention, and distraction..

...said the man who then posted pictures of women in corsets.

Thankfully I've stopped taking your opinion on women seriously a while ago.
 
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isabella1

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Personally I like wearing skirts because I am treated with more respect and dignity (by both sexes).And I like being treated like a lady. There is a major difference in how I am treated wearing skirts vs. pants. People are more willing to lend me a hand, I have doors opened for me, and elevators held, even asked "what floor", LOL. I even find that I am trusted my women more, which I found odd.


I took the challenge of wearing skirts all summer to work with a few days of pants in between. Boy did I have an eye opener. You should try it. :)


Keep in mind that I did not wear skirts above the knee, and my tops were never lower than three fingers held together below the adams apple


Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are an abomination unto the LORD thy God.


I got this from another site and blog that I was reading on the subject
So, why dresses? First of all, the scripture doesn't say for a woman to wear dresses and the man wear pants! Besides, back then, didn't both sexes wear similar clothing? Weren't robes like dresses? Jesus wore robes...so didn't Jesus wear a dress?"

The research I have done so far...

What did Jesus wear?
(or in other words...did Jesus wear a dress?)

In Jesus' time :
Men wore--
Tunic (short, usually stopped below the knee to mid-calf. No this was NOT a dress, although it was not pant either!)
Girdle (a belt)
Mantle (outer garment - like a robe)
Sandals *(Interesting fact... to "gird your loins" meant literally to take your Mantle and bring it up between your legs and tuck it into your girdle to keep it from getting in the way while you were working or running! Men often showed a LOT more leg than girls and when girded had a look that was similar to shorts... Women wouldn't have done this...it would have been very indecent!)

Women wore--
Tunic (very long -- or in other words a dress, definitely NOT pants or something that showed any leg!)
Girdle (belt-more ornamented that a males)
Mantle (ornamented and LONG)
Veil (Head covering)
Sandals

So- Jesus did NOT wear a dress. And, He did not wear pants either!

If we look at Deuteronomy, the point is that it is NOT appropriate for a woman to wear that which is considered mans clothing.

Think about an image of the restroom sign. She should wear that, which is womans clothing... (which, back then and up until the sexual revolution was modest dresses -regardless of what the man wore!).

There are many, points that could be argued here...

Yes, there are obviously pants that are womens pants that could not really be worn by a man...the question is, is it truly appropriate for a woman to wear pants at all? I've been malling over this issue for a while now and, I'm not sure.

What about this...is it appropriate for a man to wear a womans dress? We raise our eyebrows at that because, really...it isn't. A dress is womens clothing. At least here in the U.S. and in many European culturesis. Of course, there are some individuals who cross dress...but, that is not the point.

As for what constitutes "mens clothing" that all depends on the culture in which a person is living. In the middle east for example both men and women wear robes but colors vary. Women also wear the hijab of course covering their hair, neck, throat. In the Pacific islands we find again that both sexes wear what we'd call a dress/skirt. It both of the above cultures it's vitally important to wear these items as it helps the body maintain a healthy body temp & prevents overheating. In colder climates among Innuit peoples in Siberia/Alaska/Canada we find that the dressing standards among the sexs is identical. Again it's a matter of keeping the body temperature regulated in a harsh environment.

Also in the Asian cultures we find that both sexes wear similar clothing tradtionally with color & pattern being the only real difference.

As of today those are the only true variations between the sexes within Western culture. People of both sexes tend to dress comfortably in whatever way best suits their individual needs. As we saw the need for women to crossover into jobs that were traditionally held by men we found that they began to adapt their dressing style to suit their workplace environs. For instance women can't work wearing dresses inside a factory setting as the loose garment could easily become entangled in fast moving equipment resulting in catastrophic injury and even death. The same goes for women who began to operate farm equipment once it became mechanized. It's too dangerous to work around thrashers/hay bailers/etc... in a skirt so they changed their attire.

Historically, a lot of things changed during WWII when it became necessary for a woman to wear her husbands trousers while she worked on heavy & dangerous machinery... but interestingly enough, most women did not wear pants during social activities. It was still 'not done.' I wasn't until the late 60s (the sexual revolution man! peace! love! etc...) that everything changed.

It has only been in the last 50 years or so that wearing pants became 'OK.' My mom has told me that, for her, even up until late elementary school, it was required that girls wear skirts to school....because...well, girls wear skirts. Boys wore pants."

I'll also be reviewing an interesting book I read by Colleen Hammond called "Dressing With Dignity." Just to give you a taste, Colleen says, "Do parents realize that 'ladies of the night' wouldn't wear on the street corners in the 1950's what some girls wear to the mall these days?" Yipes! I know I've seen this! Have you?

Also... What do you think a mans eyes are drawn to when a woman wears pants? What about when she wears a nice, modest skirt? I'm still looking for facts and figures on this one... Women who advocate skirts insist that mens eyes are drawn directly to your crotch in front...your booty in back. I'm still researching this and will see if I can get more on this before the 7 Day Challenge is over.

So, I did wear a skirt today. It went really well. I've actually been pretty comfortable and I don't think anybody thought anything of it. I ran a couple of errands and now just hanging out at home while the girls enjoy "quiet time."

As a quick Afterward:
NO! I am not trying to convince you to wear skirts. =) But I do feel something working in my own mind and I cannot help but study this out to see where it will go. I have had a couple of people ask me, "Do you feel the Holy Ghost is prompting you to wear dresses?" It is NOT culturally necessary in the LDS Church and I would be the cheese standing alone if I decided that this was the case. Honestly, I don't know. I did ask my husband (bless his heart-he supports me in these wild ideas I get) what he thought. I wondered if I were truly being prompted to wear skirts and dresses...then why am I the only one? His response was, "because you asked." Hmmm... good point. I can't imagine too many of my friends asking a similar question. LOL! When I mentioned it to a few friends many of them thought I was crazy...and usually ended up saying something like..."I'm afraid to ask because I don't want to find out the answer!" I did get a few comments about how, if it was truly an issue the President Monson would say something about it... but, would he? I mean, do we need to be commanded in all things? He is awfully busy combating bigger issues right now like inappropriate contentography and Provident Living. I believe there are some things we just have to decide for ourselves... And NO WAY! I did NOT throw out my pants... This is a 7 Day Challenge... Which is not only challenging me to dress femininely for a week...but challenging me to think about my wardrobe and decide what is modest and feminine and what makes me look like a bag lady and to thoughtfully consider new scriptures."
 
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Victrixa

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CreedIsChrist said:
The pants that many women wear today hug their curves and their bottom. Women's pants purposely accentuate these areas. Some are so low cut that they show part of their bottom. This creates a stumbling block for others and is contrary to modesty. Clothing should not accentuate and amplify the feminine curves of the body. Clothing that does is immodest and creates a stumbling block for others by inciting lust, unwanted attention, and distraction..


And men in pants don't arouse women and are modest??? Do you wear a robe or skirts to keep women from looking where they shouldn't look? :doh:
 
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isabella1

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I'm surprised people cannot tell the difference between a robe and a woman's skirt.

The pants that many women wear today hug their curves and their bottom. Women's pants purposely accentuate these areas. Some are so low cut that they show part of their bottom. This creates a stumbling block for others and is contrary to modesty. Clothing should not accentuate and amplify the feminine curves of the body. Clothing that does is immodest and creates a stumbling block for others by inciting lust, unwanted attention, and distraction..
I couldn't agree more with you!
 
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_Shannon_

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I think the idea that women's trousers are somehow men's clothing is ridiculous. WHat about t-shirts? Are t-shirts men's clothing, too? I mean they started as undershirts for men...

I wear skirts or dresses almost all the time, because they just fit better on my body. I do occasionally wear pants....but almost never ever dress "down". I hate jeans, and find them one of the most absolutely uncomfortable garments ever created. I notice no difference whatsoever in how people treat me. People are always very friendly and outgoing towards me, and ready and willing to offer help and courtesy. Perhaps there's a difference because women project themselves differently depending on their attitude about what they're wearing. A woman wearing a dress or a skirt is more likely to feel "dressed up" and therefore project herself differently.

Most men I know say (if they have a preference), they are more aroused by women wearing skirts or dresses (even modest ones--if the clothing is not frumpy or outdated). Men need to step up a little and quit blaming women for their inability to maintain purity of thought.

Women wear what you want. If you want people to treat you with respect based on your clothing--than wear respectable, non-frumpy clothing. Don't dress like harlots. Don't dress like you're perpetually 18. Wear clothing appropriate to the activity you are pursuing. NOTHING modest about rock climbing in a skirt, where someone is below you belaying. Guys...don't be such idiots. Take responsibility for you thoughts, and learn to turn your eyes away from something which might cause you to stumble. And quit telling women what they ought to wear, unless it is "Wear something in which you feel fantastic!!"

It's pretty lame that people are still such babies about all of this. Don't blame other people for your shortcomings. And on the other hand accept that what you choose to do affects others around you. Problem solved. And now I'm off to go put on some shorts and sneakers and a t shirt and exercise so I can fit in my dress I want to wear this evening.
 
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isabella1

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Shanon, do you think that St. John Chrysostom is lame for the statement he made on womens dress? Would be interested in hearing your take on it. In my opinion, vanity and pride get us hung all the time. The do what makes you "feel good" attitude, is part of that vanity and pride. Like I said, my opinion.

"You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment and much more effectively than you could by your voice. When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges in the court punish? Those who drink the poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal portion? You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury but out of foolish vanity and pride." St. John Chrysostom
 
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Lady Bug

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one of the most damaging ways to kill a woman's self esteem is to make her feel like her curves or any of her beauty shouldn't be seen at all. surely there must be legitimate ways to show the shape of a body without trying to look like a piece of meat.
 
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_Shannon_

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St. John Chrysostom lived one thousand seven hundred years ago. You know--when women were owned....as property...and had no rights. Hopefully we've evolved a bit.

I'm sorry but this crap is the same crap that blames women for being raped, because they were asking for it. What a load of dung.

If men take responsibility for themselves, and women take responsibility for themselves AND we recognise that we don't live in isolation, but that our actions affect others...I fail to see how that's vain, proud or damaging.
 
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isabella1

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Actually ladybug, to show off off ones body is just that. Showing if off, which is not of God. Yes a woman is built beautiful, in all shapes and sizes. And God doesn't create anything ugly, or shameful. But we don't live in a society where everyone has holy eyes or thoughts.

I for one have felt that my body is sacred enough to be kept for the viewing of my husband only.

You should tale a look at the book I posted. It is only $10.00. It might be helpful to you.

I personally feel there is nothing wrong with wearing pants. And yes people still treat me well when I wear pants. But like I said, I noticed a difference when I have a modest skirt on.

I will give you another example of how modest clothing and women in dresses are treated with more respect...At work there is a Mennonite family who has a baby in our unit, the women are treated like gold with anyone who comes in contact with them. It just blows my mind. They all have plane white bonnets on with their hair put up under it, black shoes and dark stockings, all have the same patterned dress, and the only body part that is showing on them is their hands, top of their neck and front of face. People watch their language, manners, and more in their presence. They have gotten more respect and red carpet than anyone else I have seen. And I know it is because of their extreme modesty.

Not that we have to go to that extreme, but the treatment they receive speaks volumes.
 
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isabella1

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St. John Chrysostom lived one thousand seven hundred years ago. You know--when women were owned....as property...and had no rights. Hopefully we've evolved a bit.

I'm sorry but this crap is the same crap that blames women for being raped, because they were asking for it. What a load of dung.

If men take responsibility for themselves, and women take responsibility for themselves AND we recognize that we don't live in isolation, but that our actions affect others...I fail to see how that's vain, proud or damaging.
Yes, men do certainly need to take responsibility for their eyes and what is in their hearts., as well as women.

You have to admit though, women have gone a lot over the edge with their dress.

Like you said, don't dress like a tramp, and wear something that makes you feel great, I am all for that when done in modesty. Today though, I see a lack of it.

I feel St. John C. has a point though, no matter how long ago it was written.

The vein and proud that can be damaging that I was talking about is the mind set of... do what you want, where what you want, no matter what it is, as long as if makes you feel good. That is what stuck in my mind when I read your one post, and I see what you are saying now though. I think I misunderstood that particular part of your post. :)
 
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Lady Bug

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I for one have felt that my body is sacred enough to be kept for the viewing of my husband only.
Look no offense, but it's easy for a contentedly married person to be saying this. Maybe you said the same thing when you weren't married?

My body is so strange in the sense that I've got fat rolls in odd places so it's going to be hard for me to wear clothes that help my look curvy anyway. It doesn't help my self esteem though:|
 
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_Shannon_

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Yes, men do certainly need to take responsibility for their eyes and what is in their hearts., as well as women.

You have to admit though, women have gone a lot over the edge with their dress.

Like you said, don't dress like a tramp, and wear something that makes you feel great, I am all for that when done in modesty. Today though, I see a lack of it.

I feel St. John C. has a point though, no matter how long ago it was written.

The vein and proud that can be damaging that I was talking about is the mind set of... do what you want, where what you want, no matter what it is, as long as if makes you feel good. That is what stuck in my mind when I read your one post, and I see what you are saying now though. I think I misunderstood that particular part of your post. :)
I dunno--I don't watch TV or read magazines...so maybe I'm missing most of these women. But then again, I don't pay much attention to what other people are doing any way.
 
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isabella1

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I thought this was interesting from Colleen Hammond's book...

Colleen says, "Do parents realize that 'ladies of the night' wouldn't wear on the street corners in the 1950's what some girls wear to the mall these days?"

I know I've seen this! Have you?
 
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isabella1

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I dunno--I don't watch TV or read magazines...so maybe I'm missing most of these women. But then again, I don't pay much attention to what other people are doing any way.
I can see that Shannon, I am sure with all you have going on in your house you hardly notice. I might notice more because of being out there in the work world. Also just shopping and in my daily dealings with people, weather it is at Mass or other.

LB, there is no reason for you to be ashamed and hide yourself. That is not what I am saying. And yes I felt this way when I was not married, as well as when I was a young teen.

I guess what some say about me is true... I might be a little prudish. Can't help who I am, I am and always have been modest. Although there was one short time period of my life when I let loose. I think I was 20 or 21 and it lasted about a year, then I couldn't live with myself that way any longer. :)
 
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