• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The great divide...

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    There is a rift, a divide among Christians, one party says it is impossible to be sinlessly perfect and not ever sin at all, ect, ect, and seriously doubt anyone else who thinks otherwise, especially those who say or may claim to have achieved it themselves, these ones this party hates...

    The other party worries about this making, even people like them, "give up" on a battle and struggle against sins and wonder what the point or even trying is, why not just give into every single impulse to sin and completely give up on the struggle against sin... They hate others that they perceive as sinners who sin way more than they do, and they hate them because they can seem to get away with more, ect, and accuse them of using Grace as a license to sin, but are really upset with them because they don't think they put up any kind of fight or struggle against sin...

    The former party (above) are known as Grace, and faith people, I guess you could say, while the latter party is considered like Law, and works people...

    I think this is a great divide, so, can we solve or at least resolve it...?

    About the latter's concerns, In a favorite Star Trek TNG episode of mine, called "The Offspring" Data creates a child android, her name is Lal... She is upset about something and ask her Father, Data, why do you still try to be human or like humans if it's impossible...?" Cause for a mechanical man, or android, to become like a, especially flesh and blood human, is considered impossible even in the age of Star Trek... So, she says/asks, "why"...? Data says that, "It does not matter if we ever fully meet our eventual goal (100% sinless perfection), (or to be like God) the "effort" (trying, struggling, fighting) (against sin) (trying to be like God) yields it own rewards (from God, or the way God has designed it) (to work)...

    "The effort always yields it's own rewards"

    Then he said, "We must strive (or struggle) to more (or better) than what we are" (or were yesterday)...

    And we should not let that go...

    Just because it is nigh impossible, does not mean we should not try or fight or struggle or put up a fight, or whatever (for it) (the goal) (of 100% sinless perfection) (and not even fight or struggle with sin anymore)...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    These two sides should not be at war with each other, or be hating one another in any way, and, beyond that, they should each be open to even considering changing their views based upon and being also open to each sides views and opinions...

    How do we do that...?

    God Bless!
     
  3. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

    477
    +199
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    The doctrine of sinless perfectionism is a heresy.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  4. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

    +1,017
    Christian
    I think we should stick with was is true rather than base truth on slippery slope scenarios.
     
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    How so...?

    Do you mean the idea that one can be sinlessly perfect...? or sinless, or perfect...? Or what...?

    Or only declared perfect somehow in the Lord in spite of sin or sinning sometimes...? or what...? And if that, how does that work, or what does that look like...?

    God Bless!
     
  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    What do you mean...? If it's a true scenario...?

    God Bless!
     
  7. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

    477
    +199
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    We can’t be sinless. That’s why it’s a heresy.
     
  8. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

    477
    +199
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    1 John 1:8
    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  9. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    I think I stated that was one view, but what about the questions that follow that...? (Not being able to be sinless, I mean)...

    God Bless!
     
  10. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Yes, Yes, Yes, guys, I've heard this all before, and I tend to lean heavily toward you guy's views, but, what about the questions, and especially "concerns that follow"...? since sin, destroy's, nations, or a people, and/or individual people, and/or societies, and/or worlds...?

    God Bless!
     
  11. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

    477
    +199
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    It’s not a view. It’s correct doctrine.

    The doctrine of sinless perfectionism is a heresy.

    The Apostle Paul called himself the chief of sinners.
     
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    What kind of fruit, or seed or root, produces the true kind of obedience God is looking for...? And is that different from (being completely obedient to) the (letter of the) Law...? If so, how, or what does that look like...?
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Look you guys can argue doctrine/false doctrine all you want, and till your blue in the face, K...

    But, are you gonna help me, and perhaps others also, address the concerns that follow us never being able to be sinlessly perfect...? or not...?

    Much thanks if you wish to participate,

    God Bless!
     
  14. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

    477
    +199
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    Luke 18:9-14
    9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

    10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

    11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

    12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

    14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
     
  15. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

    477
    +199
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    It’s ridiculous ok.....we are sinners, we can’t be perfect.
     
  16. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    What does it look like, if, after a person is humbled, when he is exalted...?

    God Bless!
     
  17. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    And, in this world, or on this side of reality, I agree with that, but... can we think "beyond" or "after that" maybe...? To what follows...?

    Much thanks if you wish to participate...

    God Bless!
     
  18. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

    477
    +199
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    Ultimately glorification in heaven.
     
  19. Solomon Smith

    Solomon Smith Active Member

    477
    +199
    United States
    Lutheran
    Single
    I don’t understand the question.
     
  20. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +2,786
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    So we are never exalted in this world, but only when we get to heaven...?

    Does meek mean weak...? Or always downcast or what, never holding your head up high, ever...? Sometimes some humility can be false humility, or some might say, "one in the process of humbling themselves"... But, what about that process when that process is complete...? What does that look like...? And does it/that ever happen while were still in this world, or on this side of the fence of reality...?

    Or is the real trick knowing exactly when to instantly lower yourself, (and to a proper level) based upon when you interact with others, or people/places/things, or just knowing and being able to correctly discern when exactly you should, or maybe, "shouldn't" (lower yourself) as well, IDK...?

    God Bless!
     
Loading...