Discussion The great Contradiction of the apostate church .

Alithis

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The great Contradiction of the apostate church

"I'm just a sinner saved ! ???

you are either saved .. and a willful sinner
or you are a prisoner to sin and, as yet, unsaved .

you don't get to have it both ways .

Make up your mind,
choose this day whom you will serve .
 

Alithis

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What does the scripture state ...
Do the scriptures written under the inspiration of the holy spirit ever call the born again..."sinners" ..no .
Its calls them the saints ,the redeemed,children of god,sons.etc

We are saved and ever being saved
If one calls them selves a deciple of the lord jesus ,yet continues to sin..they do so knowing it is sin .thats part of what makes it sin .the truth that they know it is not loving God to do that action,but they do it any way ,they willfully sin .
Then they say oh well..im just a sinner..as if that excuses them.
It does not Jesus said repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached.
Repentance is not a one off act ..it is a life long stance of maintained renewing of the mind .
 
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Jason Sanders

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Or it's a lifelong process of repenting of one's sins unlike the unsaved who feel no such compulsion.
Or, and this is just a theory here, maybe it's a lifelong process of learning how to be like Christ and coming to accept that ALL out sins have already been forgiven.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Or, and this is just a theory here, maybe it's a lifelong process of learning how to be like Christ and coming to accept that ALL out sins have already been forgiven.
John 15 speaks of the ongoing need to abide in the vine. Even though salvation is not really in view, but fruitbearing and fellowship.
 
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Alithis

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Or it's a lifelong process of repenting of one's sins unlike the unsaved who feel no such compulsion.
if one is constantly repenting of ones sins that one repeatedly keeps doing ,then one is not repenting at all, but rebelliously continuing in them .
But that is will full sin and there is no more any sacrifice for that .so quit it .
But if you meant ,one is repenting of ones sin, as one becomes aware of it (convicted ) and then ceases to practice it . then i agree .

those born of god do not "continue to practice sin.. "they cannot .

don't get sidetracked though .- ..it does not say they cannot sin ..it says they cannot continue to practice the sin .
i know i cannot go back and do the sins i used to do now that i have been set free . that would be to spit in the face of God and i love him far to much to ever do so because he loved me and set me free .
 
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Alithis

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Or, and this is just a theory here, maybe it's a lifelong process of learning how to be like Christ and coming to accept that ALL out sins have already been forgiven.
do you know you are quoting the koran ? not the bible ... amazing how these things Sneak into the church when people are looking to excuse sin ..

your not forgiven for sins you have not yet committed because you have not yet committed them and thus do not need to be forgiven of them .
and you wont do them if you know they are sin, unless you choose to do so .no ones going to make you . just as it is written .".you cant be tempted above your ability to resist . so if you sin.. who is it your resisting ..it is God .that is why it is a constant battle for some people.. not because the sin has some uncontrollable force that even god ant break.. but because GOD is an immovable power that sin cant break away from no matter how much it rebels it cannot ever overcome god /so when a person surrenders to god and obeys him they find rest . the ONLY reason we do not have rest is when we are striving .. not for god . but against him .
 
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Jason Sanders

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do you know you are quoting the koran ? not the bible ... amazing how these things Sneak into the church when people are looking to excuse sin ..

your not forgiven for sins you have not yet committed because you have not yet committed them and thus do not need to be forgiven of them .
and you wont do them if you know they are sin, unless you choose to do so .no ones going to make you . just as it is written .".you cant be tempted above your ability to resist . so if you sin.. who is it your resisting ..it is God .that is why it is a constant battle for some people.. not because the sin has some uncontrollable force that even god ant break.. but because GOD is an immovable power that sin cant break away from no matter how much it rebels it cannot ever overcome god /so when a person surrenders to god and obeys him they find rest . the ONLY reason we do not have rest is when we are striving .. not for god . but against him .
Would you mind to terribly citing the specific part of the Qoran I seem to be quoting? I like actual proof to be presented to me when I'm called out on a possible false belief, you see.
 
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Alithis

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Would you mind to terribly citing the specific part of the Qoran I seem to be quoting? I like actual proof to be presented to me when I'm called out on a possible false belief, you see.
Nope..you can research it.im not here to promote that.and neither are you.
you have heard that teaching from a man made organisation self-called church and did not study the scripture to see if it is so..
when we di ,we find those words are not in there.
you see Jesus came to save us from our sin... like you save a man out of the sea he drowns in..you don't save him to leave-him drowning in it.
Jesus came to save us from our sin..not leave us as slaves to it.
He makes it so we need not continue in sin .

to be fair i did not mean you were actually quoting the koran word for word ..of course . but ,that the concept of what your saying is out of the koran and not the bible .
god is not unjust , he does not impute sin a man has not committed simply because the man has the ability to commit it .. that would not reflect the perfect justice of god at all.
 
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Blade

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Hmm I was going to say more but.. seems you are just telling what you personally believe the word is saying. This is not HIS words its yours, mine so for so on. When we read the word we then just have to go tell others what its really saying.. we know right? How can everyone not see this? hehe

What is written.. Chrsit died for the sins of the world. Behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. In the OT they offered up something that only covered the sin. So when this man this friend this savior this GOD dies on the cross what sin that was that is that will be did not get "taken away". Sin.. the wages of sin is death, in this life. Adam and Eve.. eat of this tree and you will die. That is the cost for sin. Sin demands punishment. IT IS FINISHED! This is the GOOD NEWS!

As you said we are no longer slaves to sin. But make not mistake no HUMAN on this earth saved or lost is spotless. Its written we all have sin. If we say we dont we deceive our selfs and the truth is not in us. It is not written Christ only died for past sins. People do get stuck in sin. This sin is no light switch we can just turn off. No one gets saved and then 100% pure grown up. Babes in Christ, drinking milk. Adam and Eve WALKED with GOD.. still sinned. God said what in the OT about forgiving sin and wiping it away for ever?

Truth is what is written not what I or you or anyone else believes its really saying as in.. come to Christ.. for Christ calls the sinner to repent. You are now a new creation old things passed off, all things become new. You are no longer a slave to sin. If you sin you come to Christ repent He is faithful to forgive and cleanse you from ALL unrighteousness. You do not have the right to walk in sin. For repent means to turn around turn over a new leaf so to speak. What so many forget is.. this FLESH LOVES To sin and it has NOT been changed. We are just no longer slaves to it. WE are righteous in the Fathers eyes..we are 100% spotless. He sess us through Christ. We are righteous in right standing with the Father because we believe in Jesus.

So lets not add burdens or bigger yokes to the weak in the faith and babes in Christ. Sometimes we bend we carry them.. we are the servants to all. They see CHRIST in us...we die daily. It is as the other person said.. we are all still growing in Christ..no on has arrived. Praise GOD no one writes in HIS books but Him. It is finished.

Do we really think the 12/120/3000 that did have the NT and many didnt have the OT.. do we really think they didnt sin miss it goof up get stuck? They never wrote about it. Peter sinned, Thomas sinned ..doubt? Its a sin.. yet Christ said nothing. Go for it ask CHRIST at any time about sin.. He will point to where He died and rose.. that BLOOD ..as John said.. took away the sins for the WORLD. All those people that didnt eve ask yet. He died for them anyway. The Catch is.. you have to ASK Him..repent and believe... and like you said.. we cant freely sin.. but this does not make ALL that do it..a sinner
 
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Alithis

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Hmm I was going to say more but.. seems you are just telling what you personally believe the word is saying. This is not HIS words its yours, mine so for so on. When we read the word we then just have to go tell others what its really saying.. we know right? How can everyone not see this? hehe

What is written.. Chrsit died for the sins of the world. Behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. In the OT they offered up something that only covered the sin. So when this man this friend this savior this GOD dies on the cross what sin that was that is that will be did not get "taken away". Sin.. the wages of sin is death, in this life. Adam and Eve.. eat of this tree and you will die. That is the cost for sin. Sin demands punishment. IT IS FINISHED! This is the GOOD NEWS!

As you said we are no longer slaves to sin. But make not mistake no HUMAN on this earth saved or lost is spotless. Its written we all have sin. If we say we dont we deceive our selfs and the truth is not in us. It is not written Christ only died for past sins. People do get stuck in sin. This sin is no light switch we can just turn off. No one gets saved and then 100% pure grown up. Babes in Christ, drinking milk. Adam and Eve WALKED with GOD.. still sinned. God said what in the OT about forgiving sin and wiping it away for ever?

Truth is what is written not what I or you or anyone else believes its really saying as in.. come to Christ.. for Christ calls the sinner to repent. You are now a new creation old things passed off, all things become new. You are no longer a slave to sin. If you sin you come to Christ repent He is faithful to forgive and cleanse you from ALL unrighteousness. You do not have the right to walk in sin. For repent means to turn around turn over a new leaf so to speak. What so many forget is.. this FLESH LOVES To sin and it has NOT been changed. We are just no longer slaves to it. WE are righteous in the Fathers eyes..we are 100% spotless. He sess us through Christ. We are righteous in right standing with the Father because we believe in Jesus.

So lets not add burdens or bigger yokes to the weak in the faith and babes in Christ. Sometimes we bend we carry them.. we are the servants to all. They see CHRIST in us...we die daily. It is as the other person said.. we are all still growing in Christ..no on has arrived. Praise GOD no one writes in HIS books but Him. It is finished.

Do we really think the 12/120/3000 that did have the NT and many didnt have the OT.. do we really think they didnt sin miss it goof up get stuck? They never wrote about it. Peter sinned, Thomas sinned ..doubt? Its a sin.. yet Christ said nothing. Go for it ask CHRIST at any time about sin.. He will point to where He died and rose.. that BLOOD ..as John said.. took away the sins for the WORLD. All those people that didnt eve ask yet. He died for them anyway. The Catch is.. you have to ASK Him..repent and believe... and like you said.. we cant freely sin.. but this does not make ALL that do it..a sinner
Its late,may adress this more fully later.but you have listed all the cliche excuses people use to justify continuing thier sin .
No,im not saying you are doing that.but that you have listed all the same same verses they use.
Jesus does indeed take away our sin.
And sets us free from it.
If free... What can compell us beyond our will to knowingly do that which we know is sinful?

As i said ,i may adress the rest later ,much of these verses are plucked out from thier context.
And lets be clear,im not talking about ambiguous matters of conscience.
Lie,steal,hate,sexual immorality...
Things we know without ambiguity ,are sin.
Take a christian man watching inappropriate content for example...
There is no ambiguity as to the question of sin.
Dont read 2verses from 1 john... Get a literal version with no chapters and verses deviding it ,and read the letter as he wrote it.one continuos statment and explanation.
Its one of the most partially quoted letters . so many pluck out the verses which make them feel good,as if the other parts are some form of lesser truth .they are not ..it is all truth.truth is,as you say,what is written..you will find most have not been reading all of what is written.they mentally shut down after they have read thier favored peices guided by chapter and verse.when you really read what the truth is that is written you will enter( so to speak)a kingdom of power ,victory and freedom ,one many are being told,in direct contradiction to God,is not possible.a kingdom where you are utterly free from the power of sin.
But before continuing..reading 1 john..all of it,is a must.

So for now ,i will leave the question underlined above.
 
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Alithis

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Or it's a lifelong process of repenting of one's sins unlike the unsaved who feel no such compulsion.
it is indeed and there is the catch many miss ..
one repents of their sin which God has revealed to them . and they do not continue to do it .
the life ling process is Not a process at all IF the person returns and keeps doing the "same ' sin over and over . that is not repentance that is refusal to repent

the process you speak of is when having repented of things you know to be sinful and thus walking before god with a clear consciousness . and no one can condemn you..
And then when GOD shows you something in your life that you must repent of.. we do not say to god "i have no sin", but we say .. "you are RIGHT lord" ..please forgive me, and he is 'faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from ALL Unrighteousness " .
so it is that we do not continue to practice that sin because we have repented and have been set free from it .

IF we go back and refuse to stop doing that sin (repenting and asking forgiveness and doing it again and again is self deception ..not freedom -it is rebellion) then the scriptures says that action shows we are not yet born of god .. it says it stronger, it says .. we are of the devil .
saying "this is how we know who is of God and who is of the devil " those who are of God .. DO righteousness .. those who are of the devil, continue to keep Doing Unrighteousness .
 
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ByTheSpirit

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The truth of the matter is that Paul very plainly lays out in Romans that you cannot follow Christ and be a willful sinner at the same time. Sure there will be sin, but sins committed willfully with the guise of, "oh well God will forgive me" are dangerous and completely contradictory to what scriptures state a Christian should be. We ought to be slaves to righteousness, not lawlessness. Yet, what is preached is anything but for the most part. Part of the itching ears that scriptures warn about. People want their nice toys, fancy homes, personal pleasures more than a true relationship with the Almighty. Alithis is on to something.
 
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Alithis

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The truth of the matter is that Paul very plainly lays out in Romans that you cannot follow Christ and be a willful sinner at the same time. Sure there will be sin, but sins committed willfully with the guise of, "oh well God will forgive me" are dangerous and completely contradictory to what scriptures state a Christian should be. We ought to be slaves to righteousness, not lawlessness. Yet, what is preached is anything but for the most part. Part of the itching ears that scriptures warn about. People want their nice toys, fancy homes, personal pleasures more than a true relationship with the Almighty. Alithis is on to something.
They also create for themselves a stae of being where they set themselves up for a rebellion.
Huh? Lol yup... They go all out to try and stop sinful action...,then carry on pew sitting with inaction.
This creates a vacume and you dont get to live in a vacume of neutrality .
If we are not obediently "doing" rightouness then we will (will to)do unrightousness .repentance is not "stopping and activity" it is changing the activity..changining our mind towards god to agree with god and so obey God and thereby display we do love him.
 
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jiminpa

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But there are some sins that are so deep seated that God has to work with us to complete the victory over them. If we are truly desirous of being free He will work with us.

I needed to forgive a literal murderer. It took time, but I wanted God to walk me through it, and He did.
 
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Alithis

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But there are some sins that are so deep seated that God has to work with us to complete the victory over them. If we are truly desirous of being free He will work with us.

I needed to forgive a literal murderer. It took time, but I wanted God to walk me through it, and He did.
so you see .. you needed to' realize' the victory .. you had no intent to refuse to forgive .. you were not willfully in sin .
 
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Job8

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"I'm just a sinner saved ! ???
You failed to complete the sentence. It is "I'm only a sinner SAVED BY GRACE". To be saved by grace means to be declared a saint, and to be set free from the power of sin, Hell, Hades, death, and Satan.
 
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