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Featured The great and wonderous sign in heaven

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    So, you don't know what the mark is? Then what you said earlier is empty, meaningless words!
     
  2. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Were they killed because they refused to take a mark ...yes or no ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  3. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    What is the mark? Do you know?
     
  4. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Actually nobody knows what the mark will look like.
     
  5. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    So, how can you ask the question you did?
     
  6. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    You said that the killing of those thousands of Christians by the Romans after 70 AD fulfilled Revelation 13.
     
  7. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    You quoted that. I didn't.
     
  8. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    You said that the plagues mentioned in the Book of Revelation have been fulfilled in 70 AD and shortly after.
     
  9. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Yes. But you quoted that passage, not me
     
  10. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    I have quoted the passage about the 42 months Reign of the Beast and the beheading of the Christians who will refuse to take the mark and worship the Beast mentioned in Revelation 13 ... to show you that this have not happened in 70 AD.
     
  11. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    A lot died afterwards. Nero has 666 in his name! He slaughtered many Christians!
     
  12. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    But no one forced to take a mark on his right hand or on the forehead....
     
  13. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Oh, so it literally means that? One has to accept a mark on the said body parts?
     
  14. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    That is what Revelation 13 tell us ...
    Revelation 13
    7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and there was given to him authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.

    8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, [every one] whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.
    ....
    15 And it was given [unto him] to give breath to it, [even] to the image to the breast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    16 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; 17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, [even] the name of the beast or the number of his name.

    The mark mean OWNED BY THE BEAST.
     
  15. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Those who worshipped the emperor Nero received a certificate or mark of approval –charagma, the same word used in Revelation 13:16.
     
  16. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    But none have received a mark on their right hand or upon their forehead.
    Revelation 13
    16 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond,that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead;
     
  17. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Again, it's knowing what that mark is or what it is meant to mean! Nobody knows!
     
  18. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That's right.

    For there will be 3 woes during the future Tribulation (Revelation 8:13, Revelation 9:12, Revelation 11:14).

    The 1st woe will be the 5th trumpet, the time of the weird, locust-like beings (Revelation 8:13 to 9:12).

    In Revelation 9:12 the 2nd woe will be the 6th trumpet (Revelation 9:13), which Revelation 11:14a shows will include both the weird, horse-like beings of Revelation 9:17-19 and the human Two Witnesses of Revelation 11:3-13.

    But Revelation 9:13-19 will occur right before, and then Revelation 11:2b-13 will occur during, the literal 3.5 years of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14).

    Also, in Revelation 9:12 and Revelation 11:14, the 3rd woe will be the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:14-15), which will announce the legal end of the future Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). And then out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the future Tribulation's final stage, which will be poured out on the Antichrist's worshippers (Revelation 16).

    That's right.

    For Revelation 12:7-9 hasn't happened yet, but is part of the things which must be hereafter (Revelation 4:1b).

    And just as what the apostle John saw in Revelation 4:2-11 are literal things in heaven, so what he saw in Revelation 12:7-9 is a literal, future, mid-tribulation war in heaven, between the archangel Michael and his angels on the one hand, and Satan and his angels on the other, resulting in Satan and his angels being defeated and cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:8-9,12-13).

    Revelation 12:7-9 shows Michael and his angels are more powerful than Satan and his angels. But this doesn't mean Satan won't be able to deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into thinking he and his angels (with the help of a united mankind) will be able to defeat YHWH and His army (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19).

    Actually, that's part of the 2nd woe, as was discussed earlier.
     
  19. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Satan cast out of heaven with his fallen Angels is part of the events of the 7 TH Trumpet ... thus the Third Woe.

    The killing of the 2 witnesses by the Beast who ascendeth out of the bottomless pit and their resurrection and ascension to Heaven happen at the end of the 2nd Woe.At that point 1/3 of humanity will have been killed by the strange horses like creatures.
    Revelation 11:7-14
    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that cometh up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them.

    ....
    11 And after the three days and a half the breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them that beheld them.

    12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they went up into heaven in the cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

    13 And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell; and there were killed in the earthquake seven thousand persons: and the rest were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    14 The second Woe is past: behold, the third Woe cometh quickly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  20. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that it will be part of the 6th trumpet, and thus the 2nd woe. For Revelation chapters 11 to 14 show from 4 different angles the same, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 14:9-13) of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), which will occur after Revelation chapters 6 to 10 and before Revelation chapters 15 to 21, and which reign will legally end at the future Tribulation's 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15).

    Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Note that "the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit" is simply describing who will kill the Two Witnesses. It's not saying he won't ascend until immediately before he kills them. For he will ascend some 3.5 years before he kills them.

    That is, one aspect of Revelation's beast is it's a powerful fallen angel (referred to with a Greek masculine-pronoun "he" in Revelation 17:11) who's now literally in the bottomless pit and will ascend from it during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 to spiritually empower the empire of the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 17:8-11), empire being 3rd aspect of the beast, represented by the animal symbols of Revelation 13:1-2. The fallen-angel aspect of the beast could be the angelic prince whom Satan assigned to spiritually empower the ancient empire of Babylon, just as Satan assigned other fallen angelic princes to spiritually empower the subsequent ancient empires of Persia and Greece (Daniel 10:13,20). When the ancient empire of Babylon was defeated, the fallen angelic prince empowering it could have been cast into the bottomless pit. This same fallen angel could be released to empower a revival of the empire of Babylon during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (of Revelation 13:5-18).

    The release of the powerful fallen angelic prince of Babylon from the bottomless pit could occur at the same time as the unbinding of 4 other powerful fallen angels now bound in the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14b), who could have been bound there at the fall of the ancient empire of Babylon. The binding of a stone to a scroll (written down by the prophet Jeremiah) about the fall of the ancient empire of Babylon, and the casting of the scroll into the Euphrates to sink down to the bottom (Jeremiah 51:63-64) could have been a symbolic act which included a representation of the binding of the 4 powerful fallen angels and their being cast into the Euphrates to sink down to the bottom.

    When these 4 fallen angels are released at one point during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, they will cause an army of 200 million strange horse-like beings to kill 1/3 of mankind (Revelation 9:15-19). This could be done to make mankind completely desperate before its takeover by Satan and the Antichrist mid-tribulation, when Satan and his fallen angels will be cast down from heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7 to 13:18).
     
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