• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured The great and wonderous sign in heaven

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. GUANO

    GUANO Well-Known Member

    739
    +318
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    There is nothing in the Bible that says the above. I'm not opposed to the idea but astrology is literally a derivative of astrolatry which came first. The stars aren't shaped like a woman, or a ram, or a dragon, humans crafted those images in their imagination and assigned properties and myths to them. It's Idolatry at it's most basic form. Virgo, for instance, was never recognized until Greek Astrology came about... The constellation of Virgo had many names and forms but most of them had nothing to do with a virgin, or a female... Each empire would have assigned their own deific principles to various constellations and they wouldn't have been the same between religions.

    The Babylonian priests accordingly applied themselves to the task of perfecting a system of interpretation of the phenomena to be observed in the heavens, and it was natural that the system was extended from the moon, sun and five planets to the more prominent and recognizable fixed stars.

    The interpretations themselves were based (as in the case of divination through the liver) chiefly on two factors:

    • On the recollection or on written records of what in the past had taken place when the phenomenon or phenomena in question had been observed, and
    • Association of ideas—involving sometimes merely a play upon words—in connection with the phenomenon or phenomena observed.
    Thus, if on a certain occasion, the rise of the new moon in a cloudy sky was followed by victory over an enemy or by abundant rain, the sign in question was thus proved to be a favourable one and its recurrence would thenceforth be regarded as a good omen, though the prognostication would not necessarily be limited to the one or the other of those occurrences, but might be extended to apply to other circumstances.
     
  2. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,910
    Non-Denom
    "We learn more certainly from ecclesiastical historians, that at this is juncture all who believed in Christ left Jerusalem, and removed to Pella, and other places beyond the river Jordan: so that they all marvellously escaped the general shipwreck of their country, and we do not read any where that so much as one of them perished in the destruction of Jerusalem."

    Thomas Newton, Dissertations on the Prophecies



    DECEIVERS

    Matthew: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (24:4,5).

    Mark: "And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you; For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (13:5,6).

    Luke: "And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them" (21:8).

    Did such deceivers or false Christs arise and deceive many in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem? Yes.

    According to Josephus, the noted Jewish historian, twelve years after our Saviour's death, a certain impostor named Theudas persuaded a great multitude to follow him to the river Jordan which he claimed would divide for their passage. At the time of Felix (who is mentioned in the book of Acts), the country of the Jews was filled with impostors who Felix had put to death EVERY DAY—a statement which indicates that there were "many" of such in those days.

    An Egyptian who "pretended to be a prophet" gathered 30,000 men, claiming that he would show "how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down."

    Another deceiver was Simon, a sorcerer, who led people to believe he was the great power of God (See Acts 8). According to Irenaeus, Simon claimed to be the Son of God and creator of angels. Jerome says that he claimed to be the Word of God, the Almighty. Justin relates that he went to Rome and was acclaimed as a god by his magical powers.

    Origen mentions a certain wonder-worker, Dositheus, who claimed he was the Christ foretold by Moses. Another deceiver in those days was Barchochebas who, according to Jerome, claimed to vomit flames. Bar-jesus is mentioned in Acts 13:6 as a sorcerer and false prophet. These are examples of the deceivers of whom history says there were "a great number," and of whom Jesus had prophesied that there would be "many."

    WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS

    Matthew: "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom" (24:6,7).

    Mark: "And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled; for such things must needs be, but the end is not yet, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom" (13:7, 8).

    Luke: "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9,10).

    We are told that when Jesus gave this prophecy, the Roman Empire was experiencing a general peace within its borders. Jesus explained to his disciples that they would be hearing of wars, rumors of wars, and commotions. And did they? Yes. Within a short time the Empire was filled with strife, insurrection, and wars.

    Before the fall of Jerusalem, four Emperors came to violent deaths within the space of 18 months. According to the historian Suetonius (who lived during the latter part of the first century and the beginning of the second), Nero "drove a dagger into his throat.'' Galba was run down by horsemen. A soldier cut off his head and "thrusting his thumb into the mouth," carried the horrid trophy about. Otho "stabbed himself" in the breast. Vitellius was killed by slow torture and then "dragged by a hook into the Tiber." We can understand that such fate falling on the Emperors would naturally spread distress and insecurity through the Empire.

    In the Annals of Tacitus, a Roman who wrote a history which covers the period prior to 70 A. D., we find such expressions as these: "Disturbances in Germany," "commotions in Africa," "commotions in Thrace," "insurrections in Gaul," "intrigues among the Parthians," "the war in Britain," "war in Armenia."

    Among the Jews, the times became turbulent. In Seleucia, 50,000 Jews were killed. There was an uprising against them in Alexandria. In a battle between the Jews and Syrians in Caesarea, 20,000 were killed. During these times, Caligula ordered his statue placed in the temple at Jerusalem. The Jews refused to do this and lived in constant fear that the Emperor's armies would be sent into Palestine. This fear became so real that some of them did not even bother to till their fields.

    But though there would be wars, rumours of wars, and commotions, Jesus told his disciples: "See that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet." The word "end" that is used here is not the same Greek word as in the expression "end of the world." (See footnote). As Barnes says, the end here referred to is "the end of the Jewish economy; the destruction of Jerusalem."

    Wars, rumors of wars, and commotions were of a general nature. These things were not signs of the end; to the contrary, they were given to show that the end was NOT yet. None of these things would be the sign which would cause the disciples to flee into the mountains.

    FAMINES, PESTILENCES, EARTHQUAKES

    Matthew. "And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows (24:7,8).

    Mark: "And there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles. These are the beginning of sorrows" (13:8).

    Luke: "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights" (21:11).

    The Bible records that there was famine "throughout all the world...in the days of Claudius Caesar (Acts 11:28). Judea was especially hard hit by famine. "The disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea" (verse 29). Paul's instructions concerning this "collection [of fruit] for the saints" is recorded in First Corinthians 16:1-5; Rom. 15:25-28.

    Historians such as Suetonius and others mention famine during those years. Tacitus speaks of a "failure in the crops, and a famine consequent thereupon." Eusebius also mentions famines during this time in Rome, Judea, and Greece. Yes, there were famines in those years before the fall of Jerusalem.

    Along with famines, Jesus mentioned pestilence; that is, plagues, the spread of disease, epidemics. Famine and pestilence, of course, go hand in hand. When people do not have proper food or insufficient food, pestilence results. Suetonius wrote of "pestilence" at Rome in the days of Nero which was so severe that "within the space of one autumn there died no less than 30,000 persons." Josephus records that pestilences raged in Babylonia in A. D. 40. Tacitus tells of pestilences in Italy in A. D. 65. Yes, there were pestilences in those years before the destruction of Jerusalem.

    During this period, Jesus said there would also be earthquakes in many places. Tacitus mentions earthquakes at Rome. He wrote that "Frequent earthquakes occurred, by which many houses were thrown down" and that "twelve populous cities of Asia fell in ruins from an earthquake."

    Seneca, writing in the year 58 A. D., said: "How often have cities of Asia and Achaea fallen with one fatal shock! how many cities have been swallowed up in Syria! how many in Macedonia! how often has Cyprus been wasted by this calamity ! how often has Paphos become a ruin! News has often been brought us of the demolition of whole cities at once." He mentions the earthquake at Campania during the reign of Nero. In 60 A.D., Hierapous, Colosse, and Laodicea were overthrown—Laodicea being so self-sufficient that it recovered without the Imperial aid furnished other cities. In 63 A.D,, the city of Pompeii was greatly damaged by earthquake. There were earthquakes in Crete, Apamea, Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, Samos, and Judea. Earthquakes in divers places.

    PERSECUTION AGAINST THE DISCIPLES

    Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).

    Mark: "They shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten; and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony.., whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak but the Holy Ghost... And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (13:9-13).

    Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

    The book of Acts gives a complete account of how the disciples were persecuted in the very ways Jesus had predicted. Let us take, for example, Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). They were brought before "rulers" (verses 5-7). And it turned into an opportunity to testify. Peter explained that "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (verse 12). They were given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay, for the men of the council "marveled" (verse 13). They were then commanded "not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" (verse 18). As Jesus had said, they were hated for his name's sake.

    The same things are seen in Acts 5. Certain authorities "laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison" (verse 18). Later they were brought "before the council" (verse 27) and told to answer for continuing to teach in the name of Jesus (verse 28). Again they had opportunity to testify (verses 29-32). They were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41).

    Or take Acts 6. There arose certain ones of the "synagogue" that disputed with Steven. "And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spoke" (verses 9,10). Persecution resulted and he was brought into the "council " and questioned (verse 12). Again there was the opportunity to testify, the words of that testimony being given in Acts 7. Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). Jesus had said that some of them would be killed.

    Notice Acts 8. "There was a great persecution against the church." Christians were put in "prison", but the result was that the word was preached (verses 1-4).

    In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into "prison." But it turned into an opportunity to testify and the Philippian jailor and his family were converted as a result (verses 22-34). In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Christians were "imprisoned and beat in every Synagogue."

    In Acts 24, Paul was brought before Felix, the governor, and testified. He was given a mouth of wisdom which his adversaries could not gainsay—though they obtained an orator to speak against him. Paul's words even made Felix to "tremble." In Acts 25 and 26, Paul was brought before king Agrippa, the chief captains, and the principal men of the city. He was given a mouth of wisdom, for Agrippa said to Paul, "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian" (verse 28).

    Jesus said the disciples would be afflicted, beaten, imprisoned; they would be hated for his name's sake and some would be killed; they would be brought before councils, rulers, and kings, for a testimony; they would be given a mouth of wisdom which their adversaries could not gainsay. Surely these things came to pass in those years—unmistakably fulfilled in every detail.

    "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many ...but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:11,13). Peter, who was present when Jesus gave this prophecy (Mk. 13:3), later wrote about "false prophets" that had risen and of "many" that followed their pernicious ways (2 Peter 2). John, who also heard Jesus give this prophecy, recorded the fulfillment: "Many false prophets are gone out into the world" (l John 4:1). "Many deceivers are entered into the world" (2 John 7).

    Paul also spoke of "false apostles, deceitful workers" (2 Cor. 11:13). He mentioned Hymenaeus and Philetus who taught false doctrines and overthrew the faith of some (2 Tim. 2:17, 18). By the time of his epistle to Titus, there were "many...deceivers ...who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not" (Titus 1:10, 11).

    The waters of truth were muddied by betrayals, false prophets, iniquity, and the love of many waxing cold. "But he that shall endure [such things] until the end, the same shall be saved" (Mt. 24:13)—both now and hereafter. We understand "end" here in a general sense, for unlike the use of this word in verses 6 and 14, this reference does not have the definite article in the Greek text.

    GOSPEL TO BE PREACHED TO THE NATIONS

    "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [not until then] shall the end come" (Mt. 24:14). Unless we take this verse clear out of its setting, "the end" in view here is the end or destruction which was to come upon Jerusalem and the temple. (See footnote.) This was the question that Jesus was answering in the verses before, and the verses that follow are still speaking about Jerusalem and Judea. Jerusalem would be destroyed, but "first" the gospel would be preached unto all nations (Mk. 13:10).

    It was a tremendous prophecy. Picture the scene. Here on the mount of Olives, Jesus was speaking these words to seemingly insignificant men. Who would have supposed that the names of these humble men would become known around the world and that even in our day—almost 2,000 years later—the seeds of truth that they planted would still be producing fruit? Who would have supposed that this unpopular gospel that Christ committed to these men would ever spread beyond that immediate area? Such a vast preaching program unto all nations seemed almost impossible of fulfillment. But it was fulfilled, and in a very real sense the gospel did go to all nations before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D..

    On the day of Pentecost when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit, there were present in Jerusalem "devout men, out of every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). They heard the gospel preached by Peter and 3,000 were converted that day. Many of these, no doubt, returned to their various countries and preached the gospel.

    Later when persecution came against the church, the believers at Jerusalem were scattered and "went every where preaching the word", throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria (Acts 8:1,4). Philip took the message to the city of Samaria with great results (verses 5-8). Later he was directed to a high ranking government official from Ethiopia who was gloriously converted (verses 26-40). It is believed that this man took the message to the continent of Africa and many were converted because of his influential testimony.

    Peter took the message to the Gentiles at the house of Cornelius, an event that was a turning point in the missionary activities of the church (Acts 10, 11). The book of Acts gives a sketch of the mighty missionary work that advanced rapidly.

    The message spread to Rome. By the time of Nero, the Christians had grown so numerous that they aroused the jealousy of the government. The story of the great fire in Rome in 64 A. D. —for which the Christians were falsely blamed—is well known. In writing to the Christians at Rome, Paul opens his epistle by saying, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Rom. 1:8), and his closing words talk about the gospel as having been "made known to all nations for the obedience of faith" (16:26).

    Concerning even far away England, Newton says: "There is absolute certainty that Christianity was planted in this country in the days of the apostles, before the destruction of Jerusalem." Eusebius and also Theodoret inform us that the apostles preached the gospel in all the world and some of them "passed beyond the ocean to the Britannic isles."

    By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, he could say: 'The gospel...is come unto you, as it is in all the world" (Col. 1:6). Likewise, in verse 23, he mentions '"the gospel which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven."

    By 70 A. D., the gospel had gone forth to the world for a witness. No longer was God's message to man confined to one nation or race.


    (FOOTNOTE When the disciples spoke of "the END of the world" (Mt.24:3), the word is SUNTELEIA (number 4930 in Strong's Concordance). But in verses 6 and 14, the word translated "end" is a different word altogether, TELOS (number 5056 in Strong's Concordance). Not realizing this, some read about "the end of the world in verse 3, and think that the word "end" in verses 6 and 14 refers to the end of the world also. But such is not the case. In verses 6 and 14 the primary end in view is the destruction of Jerusalem. Later in the passage, when Jesus answered the question about his coming and the end of the world, he used the term "that day"—when "heaven and earth shall pass away"—the end of the age.


    Source: "Great Prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow
     
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Note that Jesus Christ spoke specifically of His "church" (Matthew 16:18, Matthew 18:17) before He spoke Matthew 24. And Matthew 24 refers to the future Tribulation, by which time the Church will have existed for some 2,000 years. The saints who will be in the Tribulation will be the Church, for they will be believers in Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 7:9,14, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and there are no believers in Jesus Christ outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6). Those in the Church who will be in the Tribulation could include most of the Christians alive today, whether Jews or Gentiles, for there will be no pre-tribulation rapture (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Matthew 24:29-31).

    Also, Matthew 24 was addressed privately only to Christians (Matthew 24:3-4,9), and in Jesus' mind all Christians of all times are one (John 17:20-21, Ephesians 4:4-6). The entire book of Revelation was likewise addressed only to Christians (Revelation 1:1-4, Revelation 22:16). Just as the mistaken pre-tribulation rapture view admits, for example, that John 14, Matthew 24's parallel chapter of Luke 21, and Matthew 28 can apply to the Church today (e.g. Luke 21:36, John 14:3, Matthew 28:18-19), so the pre-tribulation rapture view should be able to admit Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 can apply to the Church today.

    Matthew 24:9-13 refers to the future killing of Biblical Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, those (not in hiding) who will be hated and killed for the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9) in every nation during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Matthew 24:9-13 shows not all Christians will continue to love Jesus during that time, but some Christians' love for Him will grow cold because of their unrepentant sin (Matthew 24:12; 1 Timothy 4:1-2; 2 Timothy 4:3-4) and/or because they will become offended (Matthew 24:10) that He's letting them and their little ones suffer in the Tribulation (Matthew 13:21, Isaiah 8:21-22; 1 Peter 4:12-13). Only those Christians who continue to love Jesus to the end will be ultimately saved (Matthew 24:13, Matthew 10:37-39).

    Note that just as all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, are individual branches in the vine which is Jesus Christ (John 15:5), the only way to salvation (John 14:6, Acts 4:12), so all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, are individual branches in the good olive tree of Israel, the Jews' own tree (Romans 11:17,24, Jeremiah 11:16-17). For all Jewish Christians remain part of Israel (Romans 11:1) as the natural branches in the tree of Israel (Romans 11:24). And all Gentile Christians have been grafted as branches from a wild olive tree into the tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29) so they can partake of the salvation of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). This doesn't mean a wild branch becomes a natural branch, that a Gentile Christian becomes a genetic Jew, but that Gentile Christians, even while remaining branches from a wild olive tree, even while remaining genetic Gentiles, are still grafted in to become part of the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24).

    The book of Revelation is almost entirely literal, for it's unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning it shouldn't be difficult for Christians of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it which are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

    Just as Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the just-preceding Tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the Millennium in Revelation 20:4-6 will be literal, and will begin right after Jesus' Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when He will reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.
     
  4. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    Are you suggesting that any believer that will go in hiding in the wilderness will be under God protection, like the woman who will flee in the wilderness mentioned in Revelation 12:6 ?

    The Woman protected and nourished by God during 3 1/2 years , seem to concern exclusively a group of people in Jerusalem [Revelation 11:13-14] that will became [the Woman that will flee in the wilderness [Petra ]...Just before the THIRD WOE.

    Revelation 11:13-14
    13 And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell; and there were killed in the earthquake seven thousand persons: and the rest were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    14 The second Woe is past: behold, the third Woe cometh quickly.

    The killing of the two witnesses by the Beast who ascendeth out of the bottomless pit
    [Revelation 11:7]
    and
    The resurrection of the two witnesses and their ascension to Heaven will be a marking moment in Jerusalem,,,
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  5. ken777

    ken777 "to live is Christ, and to die is gain"

    +632
    Christian
    Married
    I agree with you about the zodiac (mazzaroth). It is not essential that a person sees this but the role of the virgin and the lion (Revelation 5:5) are so pivotal to the story of Jesus Christ I wonder how people miss it.
     
  6. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

    +683
    United States
    Word of Faith
    Married
    Of course they were not wrong! They were wise. But their leaving has nothing to do with Rev. 12:6 which is FUTURE to us.
     
  7. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Not necessarily, for they must go to a "place prepared" beforehand (Revelation 12:6).

    Compare Isaiah 26:20, which is addressing those in the Church who will still be alive on the earth at the time of the seven vials of God's wrath (Revelation 16), the final stage of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. These Christians will still be waiting for Jesus Christ's Second Coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). And they won't be appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9). So Isaiah 26:20 refers to them going into protective chambers they will have prepared on the earth, just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark they'd prepared on the earth (Genesis 7:7).

    Also, Christians can prepare their Isaiah 26:20 chambers now, and hide in them out in the wilderness at some point in our future (Revelation 12:6a), not only during the time of the seven vials, but also during the just-preceding, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6b) of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18). For his reign will involve the wrath of Satan coming against those in the Church (not in hiding) who will still be alive on the earth (Revelation 12:17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    Note that Revelation 11:13-14 will occur about 3.5 years after the woman flees into the wilderness in Revelation 12:6.

    For the Two Witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b-3,6) of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That's why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the Two Witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the Tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). The Two Witnesses will be taken up to heaven before the Tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).
     
  8. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    But they will be appointed to Satan's wrath [Revelation 12:17 Revelation 13]...who will happen BEFORE God's wrath [Revelation 16].

    Revelation 12:12
    12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having GREAT WRATH, knowing that he hath but a short time.
    Revelation 12:17
    17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:


    ... so no protection against Satan and the Beast ...except for the woman [a group in Israel] that will flee in the wilderness [Petra].

    Then, after that mostly all the Christians will have taken the mark... and that the few who will refuse will have mostly all been beheaded
    [Revelation 6:9-11]
    9 And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of them that had been slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 and they cried with a great voice, saying, How long, O Master, the holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

    11 And there was given them to each one a white robe; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little time, until their fellow-servants also and their brethren, who should be killed even as they were, should have fulfilled [their course].

    ....God will begin to pour out his wrath at the time of the 7 VIALS Revelation 16 ...then at that moment those who will have built a underground shelter and have pile stocked foods and water will be under God protection Isaiah 26:20 .
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  9. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Note that just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents different people in the Church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents different, protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the Church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15), they should flee to places in the wilderness east of Judaea, the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the Church who will be living in places other than Judaea should flee to other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

    And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all the emergency supplies of canned food, bottled water, warm clothing and bedding, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (cf. 1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus Christ returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they shouldn't carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    It's sometimes thought that Revelation 13:16 means everyone will either accept the mark, or refuse and be beheaded.

    But there's a 3rd option. For in Revelation 13:16 the original Greek word (pas: G3956) translated as "all" doesn't have to mean absolutely all, but can mean "all manner of" (Acts 10:12). Revelation 13:16 means all manner of people, "both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond", will receive the future Antichrist's mark. Revelation 13:16 doesn't mean absolutely all people will receive the mark. For there will be Biblical Christians who won't receive it, but will either be martyred (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Matthew 24:9-13) or (the 3rd option) will flee into God-protected wilderness places (Revelation 12:6,14-16) and will still be "alive and remain" on the earth at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the future Tribulation (Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). Also, there will be some non-Christian elect Jews who will refuse to receive the mark and yet they will survive (either in hiding, or under the protection of the future, Two Witnesses: Revelation 11:3,5), and so they will be able to be saved by Jesus when they see Him in person at His Second Coming (Romans 11:25-29, Zechariah 12:10-14). Anyone who receives the mark willingly can never be saved (Revelation 14:9-11).
     
  10. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    The two witnesses will prophecy [Revelation 11:3]and bring plagues during the FIRST Half of the future Tribulation of Revelation Chapters 8 to 18.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The killing of the two witnesses by the Beast who ascended out of the Bottomless pit [Revelation 11:7] and their resurrection and ascension to Heaven is part of the events of the SECOND WOE.
    Revelation 11:14
    14 The SECOND WOE is past: behold, the third Woe cometh quickly.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Second Half of the Tribulation will begin when Satan will be cast out of Heaven with his fallen angels...
    [Revelation 12:12]
    12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. WOE for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time.

    ...AND will give his power to the Beast to CONTINUE during 42 months which is the THIRD WOE.
    Revelation 13:3-5
    3 And [I saw] one of his heads as though it had been smitten unto death; and his death-stroke was healed: and the whole earth wondered after the beast; 4 and they worshipped the dragon, because he gave his authority unto the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? And who is able to war with him?

    5 and there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and there was given to him authority to continue forty and two months.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  11. ken777

    ken777 "to live is Christ, and to die is gain"

    +632
    Christian
    Married
    Very interesting comments, especially about the beheading of the martyrs. I agree that some will survive.

    I am not debating the point, just wondering really, how beheading becomes acceptable to the masses. I mean, it seems totally gross, and a bullet would be quicker and cleaner, so why beheading?

    The other thing I wonder about is the prepping aspect. Many people I know cannot afford to do that, and some preppers are talking about using guns to defend themselves. Nothing wrong with prepping if you can afford to do it and are willing to share, but for others I am sure God will look after them.
     
  12. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

    +3,561
    United Kingdom
    Catholic
    Divorced
    I believe that scripture has been interpreted incorrectly.

    Jesus said to His Apostles that these things would happen in their generation. Same with Revelation. I believe it has happened. I think people are reading it incorrectly.
     
  13. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    -The destruction Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD have happened during their generation.

    --The Book of Revelation concerns other things...because it was written AFTER .
     
  14. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

    +3,561
    United Kingdom
    Catholic
    Divorced
    Not necessarily as there are some that believe it was written around 65AD
     
  15. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    The beheading will begin after that 6 trumpets plagues [Revelation 8 ..Revelation 9] will have happened.The two witnesses and God will be blamed for all that....a final solution will be elaborated...

    The gruesome spectacle of torturing and beheading those who will refuse to take the mark and worship the Beast will be a very efficient way to force the mass to take the mark...
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  16. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    -No Christians have been killed during the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army in 70 AD...those that have been killed were ALL JEWS.

    While that:
    -Revelation 12 and Revelation 13 tell us that will be Christians who will be killed during the 42 months reign of the Beast

    Revelation 12:17
    17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:

    Revelation 13:5-8
    5 and there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and there was given to him authority to continue forty and two months.

    6 And he opened his mouth for blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, [even] them that dwell in the heaven.

    7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and there was given to him authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.

    8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, [every one] whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.
     
  17. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

    +3,561
    United Kingdom
    Catholic
    Divorced
    Thousands killed not long after!
     
  18. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    Were they killed because they refused to take the mark of the Beast ?
     
  19. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

    +3,561
    United Kingdom
    Catholic
    Divorced
    What is the mark of the beast then? Do you know?
     
  20. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    The mark of the Beast is still future to us...have you never read Revelation 13:13-18 ?
     
Loading...