The gradual erosion of personal liberties

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MOTHY

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Can I just put this out there? For some time, I've had the sneaking and uncomfortable feeling that things are not being quite right on a universal scale. Could it be that this creeping imposition on one's personal liberties is making itself felt? Some time ago, a movie, book, whatever, it doesn't matter, came out with the title. "Keep off the grass". That, to me, epitomises, where we are now. Don't do this, don't do that. No fishing, no smoking, no drinking, no bathing without sunscreen, no riding a pushbike without a helmet, don't camp in undesignated places, build houses how council's say, what style, colour, garden style, etc. And now BMI index passes to be accepted as a worker in the mining industry????? BAH!!! I'm going to paint an ORANGE SPLOT on my house (against regulations) PARK an ugly sub standard vehicle in public view, and moon the next person who drives past. HMMMPH!!!
 

misfitforfaith

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Can I just put this out there? For some time, I've had the sneaking and uncomfortable feeling that things are not being quite right on a universal scale. Could it be that this creeping imposition on one's personal liberties is making itself felt? Some time ago, a movie, book, whatever, it doesn't matter, came out with the title. "Keep off the grass". That, to me, epitomises, where we are now. Don't do this, don't do that. No fishing, no smoking, no drinking, no bathing without sunscreen, no riding a pushbike without a helmet, don't camp in undesignated places, build houses how council's say, what style, colour, garden style, etc. And now BMI index passes to be accepted as a worker in the mining industry????? BAH!!! I'm going to paint an ORANGE SPLOT on my house (against regulations) PARK an ugly sub standard vehicle in public view, and moon the next person who drives past. HMMMPH!!!
Not surprising really what happened on 9/11.01?.
What were its consequences globally both politically and bureaucratically for the world, think about it then reply!. ho hum:cool:
 
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TheDag

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while I think the terroist attacks are often used as an excuse to do away with personal liberties numerous things you mention are not in the same category. For example the law requiring people to wear a helmet while riding a pushbike (or motorbike) is good. Why? At the end of the day why should we the taxpayer fork out hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars on health care for a person who came off their bike and suffered major head injuries as a result of not having a helmet. No bathing without sunscreen is not a law (and many don't) but once again how much should we pay because people couldn't be bothered doing something small to protect themselves. No drinking? Are you serious? It is allowed but what is wrong with the message of drinking responsibly. I don't know how many fights you've seen started by drunken idiots but I've seen way too many. Often people who were served drinks despite being drunk and therefore should have legally been refused service. Once again the huge monetry cost of drunkeness not just in fights or accidents (especially in drink driving) but in vandalism as well. When it comes to smoking there is clearly a link to health issues and smoking (of course you get the odd exception of the smoking drinking 100 year old who did very different work to us) is a massive cost. Also why should I have o put up with smeely fould smoke? In all honesty I have no problem if people want to smoke but there is a saying when your freedom impinges on my freedom then it is no longer a right. Or in other words if you could guarentee thatI didn't have to put up with smelly smoke or picking up cig butts or risk getting blown up because some idiot wants to smoke while puting petrol in their car then fine. However every smoker says they always put their buts in the bin but why do I see so many on the ground and in gardens? Obviously alot (the majority?) aren't.
While you raise a valid point to be considered the examples leave alot to be desired imho.
 
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Neenie1

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Yes I hear what you are all saying.

However I think helmets on bicycles are a must. Also sunscreen, well I think that's common sense. While it's not law it's a good idea. But then who is to know if you are wearing it or not lol.



One thing that I find ANNOYING. Is all the leaflets on healthy eating etc. that get sent home by the school.

My son has a healthy lunch 99% of the time, but if I want to pack a chocolate biscuit it is my right to do so ROFL.
 
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lmnop9876

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You think those are bad? Imagine what it is like to be an Indigenous Australian in many communities. You are not free to purchase or consume alcohol when and where you will. You are not free to watch what you want at home or on the Internet. You are not free to spend your money how you please. &c. &c.
 
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tigercub

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You think those are bad? Imagine what it is like to be an Indigenous Australian in many communities. You are not free to purchase or consume alcohol when and where you will. You are not free to watch what you want at home or on the Internet. You are not free to spend your money how you please. &c. &c.
Who says?

Mothy; Please don't try and tell me that it's a basic human right to blow smoke into the face of whomever you like....I mean COME ON! It's revolting and dangerous for both the person who chooses to smoke cancer sticks and the innocent passive smoker who has no say in whether or not their risk of lung cancer etc is increased because they might happen to work in a place where patrons smoke, or be trying to eat their lunch at a cafe and be forced to inhale the vile smoke from the inconsiderate person sitting next to them...thankfully new legislation has put a stop to most of that.

I never heard of any law which prevented the parking of ugly vehicles in front of houses, unless the area is a clearway or some other location which prevents the parking of ALL vehicles. If your car happens to be unregistered, unroadworthy or otherwise ILLEGAL to be driven or parked on public roads, then it will and should be removed.

While you may see the current climate (in regards to personal freedoms etc) as an erosion of human rights, I would call most of them important to the protection of human rights.

I mentioned the smoking thing above (we all have the right to fresh air)

You can't fish in certain areas or catch certain breeds and sizes of fish ? Don't future generation have the right to see as many speies of fish as possible? It's really our over-fishing without repopulating certain areas that has called for the neccessary strict fishing legislation.

You have to build houses to current council regulations? Er yeh...we all have the right to LIFE. That is about safety! How would you feel if your child was killed due to electrocution from shoddy electical wiring? A bit guilty I'd think...or maybe not. To avoid the problem, we have building codes and regulations.

The wearing of helmets, BMI regulations et all....well the general public should be happy with those laws! As TheDag said, we would end up paying or all their medical costs in the long run. Plus with mining they need to be of a certain fittness level etc, to avoud er DEATH.
 
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lmnop9876

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Who says?

Mothy; Please don't try and tell me that it's a basic human right to blow smoke into the face of whomever you like....I mean COME ON! It's revolting and dangerous for both the person who chooses to smoke cancer sticks and the innocent passive smoker who has no say in whether or not their risk of lung cancer etc is increased because they might happen to work in a place where patrons smoke, or be trying to eat their lunch at a cafe and be forced to inhale the vile smoke from the inconsiderate person sitting next to them...thankfully new legislation has put a stop to most of that.

I never heard of any law which prevented the parking of ugly vehicles in front of houses, unless the area is a clearway or some other location which prevents the parking of ALL vehicles. If your car happens to be unregistered, unroadworthy or otherwise ILLEGAL to be driven or parked on public roads, then it will and should be removed.

While you may see the current climte (in regards to person freedoms etc) as an erosion of human rights, I would call most of them important to the protection of human rights.

I mentioned the smoking thing above (we all have the right to fresh air)

You can't fish in certain areas or catch certain breeds and sizes of fish ? Don't future generation have the right to see as many speies of fish as possible? It's really our over-fishing without repopulating certain areas that has called for the neccessary strict fishing legislation.

You have to build houses to current council regulations? Er yeh...we all have the right to LIFE. That is about safety! How would you feel if your child was killed due to electrocution from shoddy electical wiring? A bit guilty I'd think...or maybe not. To avoid the problem, we have building codes and regulations.

The wearing of helmets, BMI regulations et all....well the general public should be happy with those laws! As TheDag said, we would end up paying or all their medical costs in the long run. Plus with mining they need to be of a certain fittness level etc, to avoud er DEATH.
Don't forget about the policies of the Family First party with regard to banning alcohol advertising, controlling alcohol consumption, restricting what we can watch on television and see on the Internet, &c. &c. We complain on the one hand about left-wing parties letting people make their own choices, and then praise and uphold right-wing parties like Family First as the glorious ideal for the political future of this country? :doh: :scratch:
 
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SemperFidelis

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Can I just put this out there? For some time, I've had the sneaking and uncomfortable feeling that things are not being quite right on a universal scale. Could it be that this creeping imposition on one's personal liberties is making itself felt? Some time ago, a movie, book, whatever, it doesn't matter, came out with the title. "Keep off the grass". That, to me, epitomises, where we are now. Don't do this, don't do that. No fishing, no smoking, no drinking, no bathing without sunscreen, no riding a pushbike without a helmet, don't camp in undesignated places, build houses how council's say, what style, colour, garden style, etc. And now BMI index passes to be accepted as a worker in the mining industry????? BAH!!! I'm going to paint an ORANGE SPLOT on my house (against regulations) PARK an ugly sub standard vehicle in public view, and moon the next person who drives past. HMMMPH!!!

Sadly I feel that attitudes like this come from the belief that it is our right to do whatever we want. In a society, we have to consider others as well as ourselves.

I'll admit that at times some council regulations can seem a little over the top, but really, I have no issues with anything you have just complained about. I think rules relating to personal safety, aside from potentially saving tax payer dollars as someone else pointed out, are just plain common sense.

As for the other things, try seeing things from a different point of view. Would youstill feel the same if your neigbour built a bright purple montrosity of a house, had an overgrown garden littered with old cars and garbage and played loud music all night, depriving YOU of sleep? How would you feel if a group of people set up camp in your local park, meaning your enjoyment of it was diminished? How will you feel when there are no fish left to catch because of illegal, uncontrolled fishing?

Not that drinking is illegal, but how would you feel if a group of drunken men come into a movie you were watching and set about loudly drinking a slab of beer? How would you feel if everyone in the train carriage you were in lit up their cigarettes for the whole tip?

See, rules are sometime a pain, but nowhere near as much so as living in a society where people just get to do whatever they want.

Blessings
:crossrc:
Steve
 
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tigercub

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I meant to say in my first post, Semper's post just reminded me;

While many people are born with the common sense not to do stupid things like ride a bike without a helmet or smoke in a hospital, many are not. Therefore we have to have laws and rules in place to prevent such things.

Its a bit sad really, that we aren't all aware and considerate of the people around us. Seems to becoming more of a problem with time (a lack of common-sense/courtesy) :(
 
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tgg

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That, to me, epitomises, where we are now. Don't do this, don't do that. No fishing, no smoking, no drinking, no bathing without sunscreen, no riding a pushbike without a helmet, don't camp in undesignated places, build houses how council's say, what style, colour, garden style, etc.

OK. Let's take these things and put them in a better perspective:

Smoking: I smoked for a number of years when I was in my 20's and early 30's but gave it up about 5 years ago. Like all ex-smokers, I hate it now and wished that I'd never started in the first place. I now suffer from respiratory problems, and I don't think that non-smokers and children should have to be exposed to cigarette smoke. It does more harm than good.

Drinking: There isn't anything wrong with alcohol in moderation. Red wine is good for the heart, and it's even endorsed in the New Testament. Drunkenness is another matter altogether. But I respect other people's choices not to drink so long as they do not try enforcing it on me.

Sunbaking without sunscreen: Unless you want to suffer from sunburn or skin cancer in which I think the person who has it was foolish enough to go out in the sun without any protection in the first place.

Riding a bike without a helmet: Some people complain that bike helmets are dorky, but they'd look a whole lot more stupid lying in a hospital bed with their head split open. Kudos to the police for fining kids who don't comply with this law.

Camping in undesignated places: If it's on private property, the person responsible is guilty of trespassing.
There are plenty of places where people can go and rough it out under the stars.

Building houses according to council regulations: Everyone should have the right to good, safe and sensible housing. Where I live, some residencies in the inner-city area are shockingly run down and look like they have not been upgraded or decorated since the 1960s. If I was the Premier, I would introduce a work programme whereby anyone who was unemployed would be trained as a builder or plumber and go and upgrade all run-down houses wherever they are. Unfortunately, I don't think that the unions would allow me to do that.

That's me done for now!
 
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TheDag

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Don't forget about the policies of the Family First party with regard to banning alcohol advertising, controlling alcohol consumption, restricting what we can watch on television and see on the Internet, &c. &c. We complain on the one hand about left-wing parties letting people make their own choices, and then praise and uphold right-wing parties like Family First as the glorious ideal for the political future of this country? :doh: :scratch:
I haven't forgotten about Family Firsts policies. Thats why as a christian I did not vote for them last time and I won't be this time. I'm actually against censoring what we watch on tv and the internet simply because I am concerned what they might censor next like my faith.
 
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M

MOTHY

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Honestly, I despair!!! I no longer smoke, I don't drink, and I haven't been on a pushbike in years. I'm not condoning irresponsible behaviour, but I object to being dictated to by minority groups with their own agenda. Even when I smoked, I did not blow smoke in other people's faces, even when they blew their car exhausts in mine!!! Why can't we all just live and let live, without sticking our nose into other people's business, telling everyone else how to live, what to eat, how to behave, etc, etc. Anti social behaviour? Tell me how these restrictions have lessened it. Indeed, it seems to be more prevalent of late. Perhaps, subconsciously people are rebelling, just like they did in the days of prohibition. Some of you seem to agree that if an individual makes certain choices, that the consequences that follow shouldn't come out of your pocket. It shouldn't, agreed, but I dare any one of you to tell me that you have lived a blameless life, costing society nothing. I haven't and I don't expect anyone else to. I'm prepared to pay tax to support ordinary people with ordinary problems. It's bizarre to suggest otherwise when billions of dollars are spent on all sorts of initiatives, regardless of moral and ethical considerations.
 
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tigercub

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I don't think anyone in this thread has claimed they live a blameless life, costing society nothing. Though it is possible to cost society less, such as with private health insurance (but that's another topic) I feel there is real difference between genuinely needing aid of some sort (just as medical costs) and deliberately (knowingly) participating in an activity that will in the end cost society more than those who did not [participate in said activity] That activity could be as simple as smoking cigarettes, or things like base-jumping, driving dangerous and un-roadworthy vehicles....the list goes on!

Of course most of us hope other people would be smart enough not to purposefully endanger their own life, or that of others...unfortunately many aren't [that smart] and in the end, we all pay for it...in one way or another. Whether financially through taxes and the rising cost of various services, or by losing even more 'personal liberties' because the Government can't trust us to do the right thing.
 
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tgg

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Hi Tigercub,

The problem is today that many young adults *are* risking their lives on stupid stunts that end up costing the community a fortune.

Have you ever seen or heard of the movie "Jackass" before? Recently on a current affairs show they showed a gang of young guys in their late teens and early 20's who have exploited this movie into doing crazy things on their own like playing chicken on busy roads, setting each other on fire, throwing themselves off the top of buildings. To top it all off they are filming their antics and putting them up on sites like Youtube, and another group in America has got a professional distributing deal with a DVD company.

These films are highly attractive to bored teenage kids who want a bit of daring doom in their lives and seek to emulate them, often with disastrous results.

But then again, it has been happening for years ever since little boys could believe that they had the ability to fly. The only difference was that video technology didn't exist back in those days.
 
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TheDag

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I'm not sure it that simple. Yes kids have always done silly or dangerous things. However I think it is worse than when I was a kid. I never played chicken on a busy road or set myself or friends on fire. I don't know anyone who has done this either. I went out alot and spent time with friends which in childcare type society like today isn't happening. We played cricket or soccer and rode pushbikes (admittedly without helmets). There were also parks we could go to to play. If our parents wearn't around we could still go out. These days you can't risk young kids going out by themselves in case they get abducted. Of course they have gotten rid of alot of parks and kids recreational areas. So we provide nowhere for kids to play and get surprised when they do crazy stunts!
 
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SemperFidelis

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Honestly, I despair!!! I no longer smoke, I don't drink, and I haven't been on a pushbike in years. I'm not condoning irresponsible behaviour, but I object to being dictated to by minority groups with their own agenda. Even when I smoked, I did not blow smoke in other people's faces, even when they blew their car exhausts in mine!!! Why can't we all just live and let live, without sticking our nose into other people's business, telling everyone else how to live, what to eat, how to behave, etc, etc. Anti social behaviour? Tell me how these restrictions have lessened it. Indeed, it seems to be more prevalent of late. Perhaps, subconsciously people are rebelling, just like they did in the days of prohibition. Some of you seem to agree that if an individual makes certain choices, that the consequences that follow shouldn't come out of your pocket. It shouldn't, agreed, but I dare any one of you to tell me that you have lived a blameless life, costing society nothing. I haven't and I don't expect anyone else to. I'm prepared to pay tax to support ordinary people with ordinary problems. It's bizarre to suggest otherwise when billions of dollars are spent on all sorts of initiatives, regardless of moral and ethical considerations.

Of course none of us are blameless, but this is really beside the point. I also have no issues with my tax money helping ordinary people with ordinary problems, the issue I have is when people whinge about how their personal freedom is being restricted then expect us, the taxpayers, to bail them out when they get into trouble by exercising thie personal "liberties".

For example, going back to the issue of having to wear a bike helmet, I have no problems eith my tax and rego money being used to help people who have been injured in car accidents through no fault of their own, however, I do begin to take issue when people refuse to wear a bike helmet then expect the public to help them out financially when they are hit by a car and suffer head injuries.

You also make the point of why can't we just live and let live? This is just ideoligocal nonsense for the most part (not meaning to be rude), but the fact is that we live in a society that requires rules, regulations and certain behavioural expectations to run smoothly. Like I mentioned in a previous post, are you willing to not stick your nose into other peoples business if their business happens to impact on your enjoyment of life? What if your neighbour decided to play loud music all night, depriving you of sleep? Would you then live by that same philosphy?

Anti-social behaviour is certainly a sign of rebellion, however I think in general it is either a cry for attention or a reaction from people who are too immature to deal with the fact that sometimes they can't just behave in any way they feel like.

Again, just my opinions

Blessings,
:crossrc:
Steve
 
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