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LDS The Gospel

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Yodas_Prodigy1, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. Old Lady

    Old Lady ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    The Holy Ghost per Mormonism is a spirit made of matter that looks like his future physical body.

    "The spirit body looks like the physical body (1 Ne. 11:11; Ether 3:15–16; D&C 77:2; 129)."

    Stop dodging the question.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  2. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Oscarr I am surprised that after over 12,000 posts you are unaware that Joseph Smith did not translate the Kinder Hook plates which were made as a prank. The golden plates (original plates) were not copied, Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummin to translate the book of Lehi into English and a seer stone to translate most if not all of the Book of Mormon.
     
  3. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Yes they can. Neutrinos are made of matter yet they can pass right through the earth.
    Neutrino - Wikipedia
     
  4. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    The Bible does not say God no longer dwells in temples. Jesus has a spiritual resurrected body, He can go anywhere He wants to go:
    (New Testament | John 10:16)

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
    (New Testament | Luke 17:22 - 25)

    22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
    23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
    24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
    25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

    Jesus went to the Americas after His death.
     
  5. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The Biblical view was that in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came upon selected people in order to achieve the will of God. But after the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit came to dwell with our spirit. We know that man is made up of spirit, soul and body. We will never find the spirit and soul by taking the physical body apart. These are invisible and they make up the real "person". So we live in our physical body. For example, our mind, which is part of our soul, controls the physical brain. When the brain stops function, the mind lives on. This is how we can continue in a state of consciousness after death.

    So, the invisible person of the Holy Spirit is able to live with our spirit within us. Our spirit and the Holy Spirit are not limited by our physical body. This is a mystery and cannot be perceived by empirical means. But it is Biblical.
     
  6. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The KJV was my first Bible and I used it from 1966 to 1981, then bought myself a New American Standard Bible and an Amplified Bible, and used all three.
     
  7. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    If the indwelling Holy Spirit in a person makes a believer a temple of the Holy Spirit, replacing the presence of God in the holy of holies in the Jewish Temple, then the Mormon temples don't have the presence of God in them at all? Therefore the presence of God should then be within each believer and so when they go into the temple, they take the presence of God with them, instead of going into the presence of God which is resident in the temple.
     
  8. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    In AD 33? If Jesus went to the Americas at that time - because He was seated at the right hand of God before AD 34 - then if He preached, then there must have been conversions to Christ at that time. But the reality is that there was no evidence of Christianity before the Spanish arrived much later and brought Roman Catholic Christianity to the Americas.

    But the date of the golden plates was well before AD 33! Christ must have visited the Americas before the gold plates were inscribed with the story of the Nephites who migrated to North America before the birth of Christ in Israel. There is a timing issue here that cannot be resolved.
     
  9. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I stand corrected. Although the Kinder Hook plates were initially viewed as authentic. I agree that JS used the Urim and Thummin to translate the book. But I think you have shot yourself in the foot when you mentioned the seer stone, because that is an occult device. This means that JS did not translate the book through the Holy Spirit, but through the occult which is demonic in nature.

    JS's own mother testified that he was heavily into the occult, became a Freemason and was deeply involved in the Luciferian rituals of Freemasonry. It has been proved that at the higher secret levels of that movement, there are named demons that are worshiped. If JS was that heavily involved in the occult and Freemasonry, then it would be quite feasible that he would have adapted Freemason rituals into the secret temple rituals and ceremonies that only a very select group of very senior leaders would have access. And these senior leaders would have to keep the rituals secret on pain of death and to make a vow to that effect.

    I think that most of the rank of file church members would have no knowledge of these things. The original records are stored deep in the archives at the Salt Lake City Temple, not accessible to anyone except the highest level of leadership.
     
  10. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Jesus can go anywhere He desires to go at any time. He does not stay seated all of the time. The golden plates were written on for many years by many generations from about 600 BC to 420 AD. Not all of it was written before Christ was born.
     
  11. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Okay. That's informative. Therefore, if the Nephites existed as soon as 420 AD, we should be seeing the ruins of cities in North America where they would have lived. The problem is that archaeologists, including the Mormon ones, even though they have searched many years for evidence, they have never found it.
     
  12. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Not only did he use an occult seer stone throughout his "translation" of the BOM, but the stone actually belonged to someone else and when the person asked for it back--refused to give it back! In other words, he translated with stolen property!!
     
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  13. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Prophets were called seers:
    (Old Testament | 1 Samuel 9:9)

    9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)

    David had a seer:
    (Old Testament | 2 Samuel 24:11 - 12)

    11 For when David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came unto the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying,
    12 Go and say unto David, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.

    Do you believe that David was of the occult?

    "
    Is there no Masonic theology, then?
    An examination of the the degrees will reveal that there is a basic theology of Masonry, as follows:


    • There is a Supreme Being
      Who created the Universe,
      Who has established and revealed a moral law,
      And to Whom we must give account
      in a life after this.
    These five points are supported by material in the lectures and related contents of the degrees, such as the discourses on the Working Tools. But there is nothing in these points that is in conflict with any major religion of the Western world. (To be sure, there are branches of Buddhism that are non-theistic, and there are those who do not believe in an afterlife, but they need not become Freemasons, nor does Masonry seek to dissuade them from their beliefs.)

    What about allegations that Freemasonry is Satanic or pagan?
    Most of these are complete fabrications; the rest are misunderstandings of the institution and its rituals. A number of forgeries and alleged exposes of Masonry were created during the last century. Most of the claims of "Satanism" in Masonry can be traced to one or two of these fraudulent sources. Other such allegations are simply made-up claims about what various Masonic emblems and symbols stand for. From: A Page About Masonry: Questions: Difficult Questions About Freemasonry
     
  14. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they were called seers. And they did not use stones in a hat. The only stones used were by the High Priest -- the T+ U, and the stones on the Ephod. Both were engraved with the names of the tribes of Israel.
     
  15. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Here is a good description of Freemasonry:
    Why is Freemasonry Wrong? - Righteous Acts Ministries (RAM)
     
  16. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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  17. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    There were different methods of communicating with God in the Bible. A seer stone would be a more practical way to bring a book like the Book of Mormon to the world.
     
  18. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    There is no record of such a thing. The T+U were not seer stones. One stone would light up for yes, the other for no. God had a much more practical way to get His message to people. His prophet was told directly by Him what to tell them! He talked to them in their own language---no translations were ever needed---except for the writing on the wall--Daniel was told directly what it meant.
    God never needed anythi8ng translated when dealing with one of His prophets!---much more practical than stones in a hat---hard on the neck!
     
  19. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Daniel was not dictating a book that was over 500 pages either. There were a lot of people who did not believe Jesus because He did things differently. I recognize the Book of Mormon as the word of God which it is.
     
  20. Old Lady

    Old Lady ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    TWO personages of matter aren't going to fit in one body. Your "Holy Ghost" is not a neutrino. Or is that what they taught you in Primary?
     
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