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LDS The Gospel

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Yodas_Prodigy1, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    (New Testament | Hebrews 6:4 - 6)

    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

    People who write manuals can make mistakes.
     
  2. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Oh yes. I know that the translation that Mormons use is their own revised one and not the KJV, the NAB, or the NIV. Certain parts of the Mormon revised Bible have bits changed to fit in with Mormon doctrine. That's pretty common knowledge.
     
  3. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    This one's false, and even a token amount of effort would have shown it.

    The central text is, indeed, the standard KJV; the JST material is in the footnotes and a section in the back so that people can compare the renderings.

    Also, there's nothing stopping anyone from using another translation of the Bible if they so wish. I myself have a "parallel" Bible that shows the text of four translations right next to each other for comparison purposes.
     
  4. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    That right. Joseph Smith did that, and his Book of Mormon was so full of errors that 300 revisions had to be made over the last 150 years to cover them up so that ordinary members would not realise that the Book was and still is a complete fraud written by someone who was a crystal ball gazer, occult practicer and an adulterer.
     
  5. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Most translations including the KJV uses with Him.
     
  6. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Most of the errors were spelling and punctuation errors. You make those errors yourself.
     
  7. Old Lady

    Old Lady ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    The LDS church published that. They can afford proofreaders.

    Why are you quoting Hebrews 6:4-6? That doesn't apply.
     
  8. Old Lady

    Old Lady ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    I'm not sure what you are saying. The KJV is like ours; it's the footnotes that are theirs. I don't know how often they use the Inspired Version (Joseph Smith Translation). When I was a Mormon no one told me that I should buy one.
     
  9. Old Lady

    Old Lady ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    Mormons ignore parts of the Bible, such as: 2 Corinthians 6:16, Romans 8:9-11.
     
  10. Old Lady

    Old Lady ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    The spirit body looks like the physical body (1 Ne. 11:11; Ether 3:15–16; D&C 77:2; 129). Spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure than mortal element or matter (D&C 131:7).
    Spirit

    Matter exists in space.

     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  11. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    But the record states that the Book also contained grammatical errors and was copied word for word from the plates, and used KJV language which was not known when the Nephite compiled them. How can that be?

    Oh, something for you to explain. A set of brass plates were discovered with a type of Egyptian Hieroglyphic language on them. These were translated by JS and presented as authentic. They were taken and examined by qualified Egyptologists who found that the language was nothing like Egyptian, and that they could not have been translated. A little later a person confessed that the plates were fake and were made up as a prank. The whole thing was a hoax, but JS and Brigham Young were convinced at the time that they were authentic.

    If JS was a prophet, shouldn't God have revealed that these brass plates were a fake?
     
  12. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    I guess they missed that one.

    When you said: How is an adult personage of spirit going to dwell in everyone who already has a personage of spirit in them? We all have our own spirit plus the Holy Spirit to guide us. Hebrews 6: 4-6 is about the Holy Ghost.
     
  13. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    We use the KJV with LDS footnotes, I quoted the KJV as I usually do. Do you not like the KJV?
     
  14. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Yes. The Inspired Version was the one I was talking about. From the other responses it does seem that the KJV is used most of the time.
     
  15. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    (New Testament | 2 Corinthians 6:16)

    16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    We believe our bodies are the temple of the living God (spirit of God).

    (New Testament | Romans 8:9 - 14)

    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
    12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
    13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    Christ's body is not in us. The spirit is the Holy Ghost.
     
  16. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The Holy Spirit does not have a physical body. He is a spirit, and as a spirit is quite able to indwell a believer's spirit. This is what Jesus meant when He said that the kingdom of God is within you. This is also what Paul said when he said, don't be drunk with wine, but be filled with the Spirit, singing psalms and spiritual songs.
     
  17. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I see. It would be very much like the NIV Study Bible with notes and explanatory material.
     
  18. Old Lady

    Old Lady ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    That doesn't mean that Holy Ghost dwells in people. You're ignoring the questions I ask.
    TWO personages of matter aren't going to fit in one body.
     
  19. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I agree that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, because at the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit came and indwelt the believers present, and the record goes on to say that the filling of the Holy Spirit was passed on by the laying on of hands of the Apostles. Then there are other places where the gospel was preached and the Holy Spirit fell upon those who heard it. So, the New Testament is fairly clear that the Holy Spirit is a person and a spirit who indwells believers. This means that the Jewish Temple was no longer the habitation of the presence of God, and that is why the big heavy curtain that separated the holy of holies was ripped from top to bottom. To emphasise that the Jewish Temple was no longer associated with God, it was totally destroyed in AD70.

    This mean that God no longer dwells in temples made with man's hands, but dwells in the person of the Holy Spirit in every believer. I make a distinction in your use of "personage" which implies (I think) a physical person with a body, to "person" who has intellect and emotion, but not necessarily a body. The Father is a Spirit, because Jesus says that "no man has seen the Father at any time", which clearly shows that the Father does not have a physical body. The Jehovah of the Old Testament was actually the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Divine Son of God who did appear in bodily form at times to different people.

    Another point I want to make is that it would have been impossible for the resurrected Jesus to have gone and preached to the Nephites, because He was resurrected in 33AD, spent 40 days with the disciples, and then was raised to glory to be seated at the right hand of the Father. Then the Holy Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost to represent Jesus in the disciples and consequently in each genuinely converted believer. Once Jesus took His seat at the right hand of the Father, He stayed there.

    Therefore there is no way that Jesus would have travelled to North America to preach to the Nephites. But if the Nephites were living in North America before 33AD, then how come the resurrected Jesus went to preach to them before He was even on earth, crucified and resurrected? It just doesn't make sense.

    If the Nephites existed in North America around 33AD, then the ruins of their cities would be evident and many artifacts from their culture would be discovered, just like all the cultures that existed during that time.
     
  20. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    By the way, I am not anti-Mormon. I know that there are many Mormon believers who have sincere faith in Christ and choose to stay with the church and put some of its questionable beliefs "on the back burner" in order not to invite conflict, and alienation of friends and family.

    But I am opposed to demon worship, ritual, fraud and deceit in any religious environment, including the environments that I have associated with.

    You need to know that everything I am saying is said in an attitude of respect and understanding and in terms of amicable discussion and debate in order to instill a reasonable doubt about beliefs and practices that may cause a person to end up in hell instead of heaven.

    I am not saying that every member of a Mormon church is going to miss out on heaven, because the qualifications of salvation in Christ is that one believes that Jesus Christ is Lord and that He has risen from the dead. If a person's heart is right with God and his or her faith in Christ is genuine, then there is no reason why that person is not saved in Christ, even though some notions in their heads may be different from what some would term "sound doctrine". I would rather take a gracious approach to people and allow the Lord to be the final judge. If I point the finger at others, then the Lord may point the finger at me!

    But this is not to say that I shouldn't debate and discuss doctrines which I believe are non-Biblical, and to compare the personal lives of "prophets" and teachers with what they are teaching. The terms "Your Holiness", and "Prophet of God", or "Man of Faith and Power", would be meaningless if the person involved is an adulterer, practices the occult, fornicator with prostitutes, or engages in homosexual acts in his personal life. (You will observe that I have implied three distinct religious movements when using the titles in quotes).
     
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