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The Gospel of the Kingdom

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Ligurian, Jul 31, 2021.

  1. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    We have no way of knowing if what you believe aligns with the Bible and/or with the Nicene Creed Ligurian, because you've never explained what you actually believe (or answered any of our questions).

    So far, the only thing you've done is.....

    1. post some terminology (e.g. the New Covenant, the Gospel of the Kingdom) without defining what those terms mean (to you) and,
    2. used some Scripture verses in defense of your beliefs ... without ever explaining what the "beliefs" that you are defending actually are :preach:

    So there's no way to know what you believe (except by conjecture), and what's the point in that :scratch:

    My 'guess' is that you believe in "works righteousness", and that you have redefined the Biblical phrase, the Gospel of the Kingdom, as a means justifying that belief .. to yourself anyway (because the rest of us don't know what you actually believe, and we never will, as long as you continue to refuse to tell us).

    --David
     
  2. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Well, you are, if nothing else, consistent (though that hardly seems like a positive character trait in this case :(). I'd love to reply in a positive way, but this is (unfortunately) as close as I can get, thanks (again) for nothing.

    Bye-bye :wave:
     
  3. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that he is answering your questions in the highlighted parts of scripture posted. No?
     
  4. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the Gospel preached to them. Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the Gospel is preached unto you. And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
     
  5. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    Matthew 11:16-19 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, And saying, "We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented." For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, "He hath a devil." The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, "Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners." But wisdom is justified of her children.
     
  6. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    No, he is not. I've asked him for clarity, to "state" what his beliefs are because I am not sure what they are (because all I can do at this point is read between the lines and take a guess at what he means :().

    I have no idea why he is refusing to tell us what he believes (clearly/plainly/without horns), but he clearly has no intention of doing so, so I'm done :wave:
     
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  7. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    Matthew 13:16 But blessed your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous have desired to see which ye see, and have not seen; and to hear which ye hear, and have not heard. 18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19 When any one heareth the word of the Kingdom, and understandeth not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

    Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide the gate, and broad the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait the gate, and narrow the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
     
  8. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    Matthew 27:12 And when He was accused of the chief priests and elders, He answered nothing.
     
  9. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    Deuteronomy 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

    Jeremias 14:15 Therefore thus saith the Lord concerning the prophets that prophesy lies in My name, and I sent them not, who say, Sword and famine shall not be upon this land: they shall die by a grievous death, and the prophets shall be consumed by famine. 16 And the people to whom they prophesy, they also shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem, because of the sword and famine; and there shall be none to bury them: their wives also, and their sons, and their daughters shall die thus; and I will pour out their wickedness upon them.LXX
     
  10. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing; the words that I speak unto you are spirit and are life.

    John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

    Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 7:24-25) (Matthew 7:13-14)
    19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. (John 14:15-17)
    And whatsoever thou shalt bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven.

    John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent Me, even so send I you. 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

    Matthew 10:6-14 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
     
  11. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven.

    The foundation (rock) of Jesus' church, not the gentile's.
     
  12. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    The Mystery of God, Revelation 10:7, is defined in the next chapter:

    Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The Kingdoms of this world are become of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

    Declared by prophets:

    Psalms 2:6-9, Psalms 45:6-8, Psalms 145:13, Isaiah 9:6-7, etc. ad inifinitum.

    And here: as The Kingdom Of Heaven:

    Matthew 3:2 Matthew 4:17 Matthew 5:3 Matthew 5:10 Matthew 5:19 Matthew 5:20 Matthew 7:21 Matthew 8:11 Matthew 10:7 Matthew 11:11 Matthew 11:12 Matthew 13:11 Matthew 13:24 Matthew 13:31 Matthew 13:33 Matthew 13:44 Matthew 13:45 Matthew 13:47 Matthew 13:52 Matthew 16:19 Matthew 18:1 Matthew 18:3 Matthew 18:4 Matthew 18:23 Matthew 19:12 Matthew 19:14 Matthew 19:23 Matthew 20:1 Matthew 22:2 Matthew 23:13 Matthew 25:1 Matthew 25:14

    The Kingdom of God is the same thing:
    Matthew 6:33 Matthew 12:28 Matthew 19:24 Matthew 21:31 Matthew 21:43 John 3:3 John 3:5

    The Gospel of the Kingdom is the same thing:
    Matthew 4:23 Matthew 9:35 Matthew 11:5 Matthew 24:14 Matthew 26:13

    1 Peter 4:17-18 calls it The Gospel of God, which it is, John 12:48-50.
    And because Jesus spoke the words of the Father to the Discipled-Apostles, according to John 12:44-47... we literally believe in the Father through the witness of His Son:

    Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

    John 18:37 To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world: that I should bear witness unto the truth; every one that is of the truth heareth My voice. John 17:17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.

    Revelation 12:10-11 And I heard a loud voice saying in Heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the Kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their Testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Matthew 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's Kingdom.
     
  13. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    So... what do you think the rock is, exactly?
    The words God spoke about Jesus?
    Jesus Himself?
    The Father Himself?

    Matthew 16:15-19 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    petros = a (piece of) rock (larger than lithos)
    petra = a (mass of) rock

    If Jesus is cut out of a mountain... is the mountain the Father?
    Is Heavenly Sion the mountain? what am I missing?

    Daniel 2:34-35 Thou sawest until a stone was cut out of a mountain without hands, and it smote the image upon its feet of iron and earthenware, and utterly reduced them to powder. 35 Then once for all the earthenware, the iron, the brass, the silver, the gold, were ground to powder, and became as chaff from the summer threshingfloor; and the violence of the wind carried them away, and no place was found for them: and the stone which had smitten the image became a great mountain, and filled all the earth.

    Matthew 21:42-45 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? ... 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

    lithos = apparently a primary word; a stone (literally or figuratively):--(mill-, stumbling-)stone.

    ____________
    Edited to add:

    Psalms 118:18 The Lord has chastened me sore: but He has not given me up to death. 19 Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and give praise to the Lord. 20 This is the gate of the Lord: the righteous shall enter by it. 21 I will give thanks to thee; because thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner. 23 This has been done of the Lord; and it is wonderful in our eyes. 24 This is the day which the Lord has made: let us exult and rejoice in it.

    Isaiah 28:14 Therefore hear ye the word of the Lord, ye afflicted men, and ye princes of this people that is in Jerusalem. 15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with Hades, and agreements with death; if the rushing storm should pass, it shall not come upon us: we have made falsehood our hope, and by falsehood shall we be protected: 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord, even the Lord, Behold, I lay for the foundations of Sion a costly stone, a choice, a corner-stone, a precious stone, for its foundations; and he that believes on Him shall by no means be ashamed. 17 And I will cause judgment to be for hope, and My compassion shall be for just measures, and ye that trust vainly in falsehood shall fall: for the storm shall by no means pass by you, 18 except it also take away your covenant of death, and your trust in Hades shall by no means stand: if the rushing storm should come upon you, ye shall be beaten down by it.

    The stone must be Jesus. Is petra also Jesus? hmmm...
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  14. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Truth comes from the Father and not the minds and mouths of man
     
  15. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    wow... wise answer...

    Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon the rock:

    phronimos = from phren (understanding); thoughtful, i.e. sagacious or discreet (implying a cautious character; while sophos denotes practical skill or acumen; and sunetos indicates rather intelligence or mental acquirement)

    petra = a (mass of) rock
     
  16. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven.
     
  17. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    Definitely not the gentiles.

    Revelation decodes Matthew... and there ya have it:

    Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

    Daniel 2:44 And in the days of those kings the God of Heaven shall set up a Kingdom which shall never be destroyed: and His Kingdom shall not be left to another people, but it shall beat to pieces and grind to powder all other kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
     
  18. Ligurian

    Ligurian Matthew 24:14 Disciple

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    The words the Father revealed about Jesus is a piece of rock.

    Matthew 16:15-19 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    petros = a (piece of) rock (larger than lithos)
    petra = a (mass of) rock

    John 12:44-50 is the mass of rock.

    Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon the rock:

    phronimos = from phren (understanding); thoughtful, i.e. sagacious or discreet (implying a cautious character; while sophos denotes practical skill or acumen; and sunetos indicates rather intelligence or mental acquirement)

    The church of Jesus are His Disciples.
     
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