The Gospel in Hebrews

LoveGodsWord

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I am not sure where you are pulling this question from, nor do I see its relevance to the question of whether Scripture you provided meets the two criteria I listed. From the beginning I have asked where does Scripture teach that there is a division of ceremonial and moral within the law, which requires both the expression of the idea(this part of the law is moral, this part ceremonial) as well as the intent(the purpose of the verse is for teaching the idea). What you have provided does neither.
The questions are very relevant to the discussion as they show purpose and difference between the laws. I see you did not answer the questions to you so I gather you got the point that God's law being the standard of sin and righteousness is different to the Mosaic laws for remission of sins for breaking God's moral standard of righteousness. Now why would one be a "shadow" written in a book and one eternal written on stone when we are talking about the new covenant?
 
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Fervent

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The questions are very relevant to the discussion as they show purpose between the laws. I see you did not answer the questions to you so I gather you got the point.
You are asking me to supply purpose, I am asking where this distinction is made in the Bible.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You are asking me to supply purpose, I am asking where this distinction is made in the Bible.

The whole bible. If you do not want to answer the questions asked of you just say so you do not have to if you do not want to. Perhaps you can pray about it.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Then it should be fairly easy to identify a passage. Where is it?
My prayer is that you will receive the scriptures shared with you and they might be a blessing to you. It is clear your not interested in a discussion of the scriptures and your refusal to answer questions asked of you is only evidence of this as well as your denial of the scriptures that have been provided to you that answer your questions that disagree with you. Thanks for the discussion. Let's talk more when you want to discuss the scriptures. Ignoring God's Word does not make it go away. I will leave you with the last word as you seem to need it more than I do. Take care. :wave:
 
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Fervent

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The whole bible. If you do not want to answer the questions asked of you just say so you do not have to if you do not want to. Perhaps you can pray about it.
Why should I answer questions when you continue to not provide what has been asked? If the whole Bible teaches what you claim it should be fairly easy to find it directly stated with the intent being to teach it. Yet no verse is forthcoming, and when you understood what was expected you attempted to paint the expectation as illegitimate(which in effect is an admission that what you have provided does not in fact meet the criteria).
 
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HIM

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Ordinances of divine service, the meat and drink and divers washings, the carnal ordinances, the gifts, sacrifices and worldly sanctuary were a figure imposed UNTIL the time of the reformation. THESE ARE MENTIONED. No mention of the Ten and any moral law, only those of the Sanctuary service and those imposed in respect to sanctifying, purifying of the flesh. None of which purged the conscience (the inner man, who we are) of dead works , works that cause death, sin to serve the living God as in reformation, the reforming that is in Christ Jesus. For this cause He is the mediator of the new. In His cleansing blood, Redemption, and a purge the conscience, our transgressions cleansed. That we that are called might receive the eternal promise, the Law in our hearts and minds, to serve the living God. As the first and all the vessels was dedicated, consecrated with blood so are we through blood of Christ. Vessels made fit for Holy use to serve the Living God. Not Every Precept, injunction of the Law being read. But the Law being in the heart and mind. No longer a we will do, but He has done. For God has said He will put His Laws in our hearts and into our minds.


Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Yes, I understand what you are trying to claim.
I am not trying to claim anything and No you don't. Once again chapter 9 Shows without fail what in the Covenant has been changed in respect to the Law. The Laws pertaining to the Sacrificial system, and those pertaining to the ceremonial in respect to the Temple and it's service are only mentioned. No where are the Ten or any other of the moral laws implied.

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

But again, where in the Bible is the law categorized and taught to be separated in such a way?
What is it you think the Royal Law, the Law of Liberty is in James?
And 9:18-20, which identifies what is meant by "the first" that is being replaced with "the new," is a reference to Exodus 24:7-8:
No. you are inserting what is not. If the Law is to be in the heart and mind it is not changed in respect to what it is. It has went from being separate on stone and parchment to being being made part of us, who we are that we may do it from the heart through God's Spirit through Christ.
 
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HIM

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Eisegeting by slapping a bunch of unrelated verses together doesn't do anything, again where is any of this explicitly taught in the Bible?
No, you had nothing to counter so you posted the above rather than recant.
 
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HIM

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Why should I answer questions when you continue to not provide what has been asked? If the whole Bible teaches what you claim it should be fairly easy to find it directly stated with the intent being to teach it. Yet no verse is forthcoming, and when you understood what was expected you attempted to paint the expectation as illegitimate(which in effect is an admission that what you have provided does not in fact meet the criteria).
Here hear.
James explicitly states what laws are in those whom hear God.

Let us not be tempted, drawn away by our own Lust, bringing forth sin unto death. For every good gift and perfect gift cometh down from the Father of lights, us. We are Begotten by the word of truth, receive with meekness the engrafted word, the PERFECT gift.

Being Begotten of the word Be doers of the engrafted word not hearers only deceiving ourselves. For we are Begotten so don't forget who we are when Looking into a mirror at the perfect law of Liberty who we now are, the engrafted word and continue therein when we goeth our way.

Be a doer of the work and we will be blessed in the deeds. Being Begotten with the engrafted Word, The Royal Law, the Whole Law, the Law of Liberty in which we will be judged.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
 
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Fervent

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I am not trying to claim anything and No you don't. Once again chapter 9 Shows without fail what in the Covenant has been changed in respect to the Law. The Laws pertaining to the Sacrificial system, and those pertaining to the ceremonial in respect to the Temple and it's service are only mentioned. No where are the Ten or any other of the moral laws implied
Simply denying that you are claiming something doesn't make it not a claim. In order to take seriously, the idea that the law is not a single unit but is in fact divided into ceremonial and moral requires proof. You've made it perfectly clear that this is what you believe, but it is not what the Bible teaches. The categories are something you are imposing on the text and nothing more.
 
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HIM

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Simply denying that you are claiming something doesn't make it not a claim. In order to take seriously, the idea that the law is not a single unit but is in fact divided into ceremonial and moral requires proof. You've made it perfectly clear that this is what you believe, but it is not what the Bible teaches. The categories are something you are imposing on the text and nothing more.
And yet not one moral law is mention in Hebrews as being done away with through Christ's Ministry. However Hebrews does state The Law is in the heart and mind through God.

What Law some ask and bicker over.

Well we know that it is not the laws pertaining to the Sanctuary and sacrifices pertaining to sin. Hebrews is clear on that.
Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

So what Law? The Word, The Royal, the Law of Liberty, the whole Law, in which we will be judged by.

James explicitly states what laws are in those whom hear God.

Let us not be tempted, drawn away by our own Lust, bringing forth sin unto death. For every good gift and perfect gift cometh down from the Father of lights, us. We are Begotten by the word of truth, receive with meekness the engrafted word, the PERFECT gift.

Being Begotten of the word Be doers of the engrafted word not hearers only deceiving ourselves. For we are Begotten so don't forget who we are when Looking into a mirror at the perfect law of Liberty who we now are, the engrafted word and continue therein when we goeth our way.

Be a doer of the work and we will be blessed in the deeds. Being Begotten with the engrafted Word, The Royal Law, the Whole Law, the Law of Liberty in which we will be judged.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
Jas 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.[/QUOTE]
 
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