• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

The God particle is a fabrication.

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by Zaius137, Oct 8, 2011.

  1. Nabobalis

    Nabobalis Guest

    +0
    Personally I think the Higgs will be purple.
     
  2. Shemjaza

    Shemjaza Regular Member Supporter

    +2,963
    Australia
    Atheist
    Single
    AU-Greens
    If Zaius isn't a Poe... it seems weird for a creationist to take name and image of a fictional character that is basically a straw-man of religious ignorance and hypocrisy.
     
  3. Wiccan_Child

    Wiccan_Child Contributor

    +602
    Atheist
    In Relationship
    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    Maybe he just liked the film.
     
  4. artybloke

    artybloke Well-Known Member

    +427
    Christian Seeker
    UK-Labour
    No, she usually wins...



    Ba dum cha...
     
  5. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

    +575
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    But it is not necessarily the same stuff that makes stars go around the galaxy. That's an assumption based on what we observe in our solar system, but it’s not necessarily the case in the galaxy. This assumption may be wrong regarding galaxy rotation, especially in light of the fact that there is not enough matter observed, or even detected, in the galaxy.
    This sense of gravity may not be replaced in our solar system, but it is not consistent with what we observe in the galaxy, and therefore an alternative cause may be necessary to consider.
    No -- but some internet scientists act as if it is.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  6. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

    +575
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    No they are not. Gravitational rules require matter. You do not detect any matter. That violates the gravitational rules. You are now trying to find matter so as to make sense of the rules.
    I’ve been told by internet scientists that evidence can support a false idea even after the idea is shown to be false. So what’s your point?
    That explains why scientists are often wrong and theories are falsified.
    You do not know that. You assume that.
    All the more reason not to take you seriously.
    Your faith is obviously stronger than mine.
     
  7. sfs

    sfs Senior Member

    +6,763
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    In that case we would be adding an additional force to gravity, unless gravity somehow stops working outside of the solar system -- and we'd probably still be calling the combination gravity.

    Who? Please be specific.
     
  8. roach

    roach Newbie

    180
    +9
    Atheist
     
  9. Aeneas

    Aeneas Well-Known Member

    +21
    Christian
    Private
    US-Democrat
    Its the term that Creationists use to try and ignore the fact that some people in this forum actually are scientists and know from personal experience that they have no idea what they are talking about.
     
  10. Zaius137

    Zaius137 Real science and faith are compatible.

    862
    +7
    Non-Denom
    Married
    To Frenchy Open your eyes….

    “To somehow think the bible congruous with current knowledge or supports science, is, well, laughable. It is only when one opens their mind are they able to see reality for what it really is, and that any attempt to rectify biblical descriptions and our current understanding of science is fatuous.”

    Your paradigm prevents you from seeing anything in nature clearly. Science actually supports the existence of God and God proclaims his word as truth. The valueless scientific ventures were all advanced by the poor foundation of materialism.


    Rom 1:20-27
    20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, (even) his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
    21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.
    22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
    24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:
    25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
     
  11. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

    +575
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Sure -- but the additional force would be orders of magnitude stronger than gravity if it is to drive a galaxy.
    It would still work, but its weak force would be insignificant when compared to the dominate additional force.
    When we combine a glass of water with instant coffee it is no longer called a glass of water?

    If the insignificantly weak force of gravity is combined with a dominant additional force, the combined name will most likely be that of the dominate force since the weak force of gravity is insignificant.
    I am referring specifically to those who merely read a science paper and then come on the internet acting like scientists. This does not include you, of course. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  12. sfs

    sfs Senior Member

    +6,763
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Why orders of magnitude? The amount of mass ascribed to dark matter in most galaxies is more like 50%. Any theory of a new force will of course also have to explain the consistency between galactic velocity curves and gravitational lensing results.

    In the end, yes, if a new force stronger than gravity turns out to be involved, then it won't be called gravity. I'd put the odds of that happening as very small, however.
     
  13. Zaius137

    Zaius137 Real science and faith are compatible.

    862
    +7
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Relationship of Matter to star velocity at a radius:

    m2 = (V^2) R /G
    “This says that for the tangential velocity, V, to remain constant as R increases - as it does in figure 1 (as we look at stars farther and farther out from the galaxy's center) the included mass, m2, must increase proportionally to that radius, R.”
    http://www.electric-cosmos.org/darkmatter.htm

    As you can see the Mass must increase proportional to Radius to satisfy Newton. Mass can be observed at the outer edges of the galaxy to be orders of magnitude larger.
     
  14. chris4243

    chris4243 Advocate of Truth

    +51
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I consider that an admission on your part that you haven't ever done any science.
     
  15. Zaius137

    Zaius137 Real science and faith are compatible.

    862
    +7
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I was wrong in my last statement sorry….

    “
    As you can see the Mass must increase proportional to Radius to satisfy Newton. Mass can be observed at the outer edges of the galaxy to be orders of magnitude larger.”

    And the conclusions therein.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

    +575
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Every wise scientist follow this rule:

    "Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths. (Prov 3:5-6).

    It is not unscientific for scientists to pray for guidance in doing their experiments.

    In fact, it should be a part of the scientific method. :)
     
  17. Nostromo

    Nostromo Brian Blessed can take a hike

    +48
    Atheist
    Private
    You're ignoring the m1 term in F = Gm1m2/r^2

    That term increases as you move away from the galactic centre, but you're treating it as constant.
     
  18. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

    +575
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I was thinking about a known force which some scientists consider to be an alternative to dark matter and gravitational force: The ElectroMagnetic force.
    If the new force is not gravity, chances are the ‘lensing’ is not gravitational either, but somehow related to the new force.
    Actually, there are some scientists who do not call it gravity. They call it Electricity.

    It is observed that ubiquitous EM fields are threaded throughout the cosmos and the universe is awash with EM radiation.

    The EM force is 39 orders of magnitude stronger than gravitational force and can explain galactic velocity curves without the need for invisible, unknown matter.

    IMO, it makes more sense to go in search of the known cause of EM force (electric currents) rather than searching for an unknown cause for gravitational force (dark matter).

    Big Bang proponents claim that the universe is made up of 96% invisible, unknown matter. But it is known that the visible universe is made up of more than 99% ionized plasma.

    To me, it is somewhat suspect that the amount of gravitational matter required to support the Big Bang model is about the same as the amount of ionized plasma observed in the universe which Big Bang proponents ignore.

    Those scientists who's careers involve electrical engineering and plasma physics do not ignore it because their empirical experiments are consistent with what we observe in the cosmos.

    Plasma and electricity is verified to exist right here on earth and can be experimented with. Dark matter and dark energy cannot.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  19. Zaius137

    Zaius137 Real science and faith are compatible.

    862
    +7
    Non-Denom
    Married
    From my simple understanding I believe that the m1 term was the mass of the individual star (that possessing the velocity) and m2 increased with radius because the radii enveloped more mass (stars). If that is the case m1 would be a relative constant…
     
  20. Nostromo

    Nostromo Brian Blessed can take a hike

    +48
    Atheist
    Private
    Yes, sorry, on that page m1 is the mass of the star. You already retracted what you said in post 93 anyway, so there's not much for me to say.
     
Loading...