The God particle is a fabrication.

[sfs]

“Wait, we've all become massless? How did I not notice that I was floating off into space? There is still mass, and there is still gravity, since "gravity" is just the name we give to a tendency of pieces of matter to attract one another, and mass is just the name we give to invariant length of the momentum-energy vector”


You disregard Einstein’s General Relativity field equation… Gravity is the property of warped space not of mass. These days Einstein is the only safe ground in physics as the Bible is the only safe ground in life (I hold the Bible as the greater authority).

I disregarded it because the subject of the thread is the Higgs, and the mass that the Higgs is supposed to confer is as I said. Since I was responding to a meaningless statement about mass, the utility of elaborating further is not obvious.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Maybe the thread's a part of an experiment to see how people respond to critiques of science if religion is posed as an alternative. To be honest though I don't know if the OPs opinions are scientifically grounded or just sound informed.

 

[Zaius137]

If Jesus is the foundation does one need to choose his beliefs over science or is science just the discovery of his handiwork? The existence of the Higgs is irrelevant. God could have created the Higgs. It would not bother me for a second if the Higgs was announced to be reality (albeit surprising because of the evidence against it). If I am wrong about that my foundation in Christ is unshaken. God created us to know him and to come and sup at his table, to know him is liberating.

 

[chris4243]

or is science just the discovery of his handiwork?

Science is the search for knowledge that will help predict things about the real world. "The Truth" will help predict things about the real world but so will approximations that are very far from "The Truth" at the fundamental level yet close at the level of predictions.

 

[Zaius137]

A sweet poem to cosmology.

to chronicle the departure from reality.

What the science once proclaimed.
Truth of nature that explained.
But Dark Matter ascertained… leads to science now insane.

Friedmann’s model must be wrong.
Light time travel far too long.
While Hawking sings the same old song…
Please…
No more science from a Bong.

Zaius

 

[chris4243]

lol, funny poem. Could you do one about cosmology?

 

[Zaius137]

Chris…

So I see a faith fish eating a truth fish with legs. Where do you stand on evolution? If I can presume to ask that question. Is science part of your world view? As a Christian into apologetics I talk a lot to theistic evolutionists and I always have to ask why they need evolution at all. I am just curious where your at.

Thought I would take the liberty to ask you one on one since we are the only ones in this thread.

 

[chris4243]

Chris…

So I see a faith fish eating a truth fish with legs. Where do you stand on evolution?

Yes, I think that for many people their faith in themselves and their presuppositions blind them to the truth.

If I can presume to ask that question. Is science part of your world view?

Science is the area of knowledge that helps us to predict things about our world. I always keep God out of my science, because I don't presume to tell God what He must do. While useful, science is not the same as truth but rather it is approximations to it and only inasmuch as it helps to predict things.

As a Christian into apologetics I talk a lot to theistic evolutionists and I always have to ask why they need evolution at all. I am just curious where your at.

Because we believe that God is not deceptive and also prefer not to live in deceit ourselves.

 

[blarg the 2nd]

If Jesus is the foundation does one need to choose his beliefs over science or is science just the discovery of his handiwork? The existence of the Higgs is irrelevant. God could have created the Higgs. It would not bother me for a second if the Higgs was announced to be reality (albeit surprising because of the evidence against it). If I am wrong about that my foundation in Christ is unshaken. God created us to know him and to come and sup at his table, to know him is liberating.

um i don't know if there is a god

 

[variant]

So we go from well can't find the Higgs to magic?

It's always impressive how the slightest hole in our understanding will be met with overwhelming skeptical cynicism and thus lead to a conclusion that magical inviable intelligences we have no evidence for must exist.

That kind of intellectual duopoly must be extremely hard to maintain.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Yes, I think that for many people their faith in themselves and their presuppositions blind them to the truth.

The irony is staggering.

Science is the area of knowledge that helps us to predict things about our world. I always keep God out of my science, because I don't presume to tell God what He must do. While useful, science is not the same as truth but rather it is approximations to it and only inasmuch as it helps to predict things.

So you don't consider atomic theory to be true?

 

[Doveaman]

Wait, we've all become massless? How did I not notice that I was floating off into space? There is still mass, and there is still gravity, since "gravity" is just the name we give to a tendency of pieces of matter to attract one another, and mass is just the name we give to invariant length of the momentum-energy vector.

What I mean is that scientists claim that gravity is holding galaxies together, but there is not enough visible matter present to account for the gravity. So why conclude it is gravity that is holding the galaxies together? Why not look for an alternative to gravity that does not require you to invent new forms of matter that no one can even detect?

Of course not -- evidence is still evidence. If a theory has been falsified, then it has to be replaced by a theory that explains both the old evidence and the new, falsifying evidence. But since no theories under discussion here have been falsified, it's not clear why you're asking.

If evidence can support an idea that is false, there is no reason to take science seriously when it claims an idea to be true because it is supported by evidence. It seems as if scientific evidence is not a reliable way to prove an idea to be true because scientific ideas supported by evidence are often false.

 

[Doveaman]

I always keep God out of my science, because I don't presume to tell God what He must do.

I always keep God in my science, because I presume for God to tell me what I must do.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths. (Prov 3:5-6).

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I always keep God in my science, because I presume for God to tell me what I must do.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths. (Prov 3:5-6).

Splendid! He'll be telling you how to cure HIV/AIDS, cancer, and the common cold, right?

 

[Doveaman]

Splendid! He'll be telling you how to cure HIV/AIDS, cancer, and the common cold, right?

Yes.

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain". (Rev 21:4).

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Yes.

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain". (Rev 21:4).

So, go on then, what's the cure? What do we need to roll out to Africa to eliminate HIV?

 

[Nabobalis]

So, go on then, what's the cure? What do we need to roll out to Africa to eliminate HIV?

Bibles!

 

[pgp_protector]

Yes.

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain". (Rev 21:4).

Isn't this after God wipes out most of humanity and other life on this planet?

 

[Nabobalis]

Isn't this after God wipes out most of humanity and other life on this planet?

That is another way to rid the world of HIV and all other disease.

 

[Loudmouth]

What I mean is that scientists claim that gravity is holding galaxies together, but there is not enough visible matter present to account for the gravity. So why conclude it is gravity that is holding the galaxies together? Why not look for an alternative to gravity that does not require you to invent new forms of matter that no one can even detect?

Dark matter is detectable:

August 21, 2006 - Dark Matter Observed: Most Direct Measurement of Dark Matter Allows Study of its Nature - Press Release

These observations also support the lack of non-gravitational interaction between dark matter and luminous matter.

If evidence can support an idea that is false, there is no reason to take science seriously when it claims an idea to be true because it is supported by evidence. It seems as if scientific evidence is not a reliable way to prove an idea to be true because scientific ideas supported by evidence are often false.

So you reject all scientific theories? Do you not accept Germ Theory? Atomic theory?