The German elite

[mindlight]

Living in Germany I have asked the question who rules the place. It seems to me that a combination of publically elected officials and rich businessmen have the real power. They share a broad ideology of :

1) Make business not war
2) Germanys national interest is an outward focus on supporting the European project.
3) Social Democracy - balance capitalism with a concern for the weak, sick, old and poor. ( Welfare state)
4) Green policies
5) Until recently the transatlantic alliance was the fifth pillar of its ideology

So membership of the elite usually also means signing up for the above. Also the elite selects its useful talent based on the above ideology as well as loyalty and respect for its members.

But can this elite:
1) Defend Germany from military invasion without the USA 5)?
2) Is the emphasis on an increasingly closed group of professional politicians and billionaire leaders of corporate giants healthy for Germany?
3) Are they dealing effectively with Germanys long term structural and demographic issues?

 

[redleghunter]

Living in Germany I have asked the question who rules the place. It seems to me that a combination of publically elected officials and rich businessmen have the real power. They share a broad ideology of :

1) Make business not war
2) Germanys national interest is an outward focus on supporting the European project.
3) Social Democracy - balance capitalism with a concern for the weak, sick, old and poor. ( Welfare state)
4) Green policies
5) Until recently the transatlantic alliance was the fifth pillar of its ideology

So membership of the elite usually also means signing up for the above. Also the elite selects its useful talent based on the above ideology as well as loyalty and respect for its members.

But can this elite:
1) Defend Germany from military invasion without the USA 5)?
2) Is the emphasis on an increasingly closed group of professional politicians and billionaire leaders of corporate giants healthy for Germany?
3) Are they dealing effectively with Germanys long term structural and demographic issues?

Very interesting data and information.

Frankly the German elite are not having babies so in a generation the nation will be something different and not German.

 

[helmut]

I'm German, as you might see from my "avatar"-picture.

Living in Germany I have asked the question who rules the place. It seems to me that a combination of publically elected officials and rich businessmen have the real power. They share a broad ideology of :

1) Make business not war
2) Germanys national interest is an outward focus on supporting the European project.
3) Social Democracy - balance capitalism with a concern for the weak, sick, old and poor. ( Welfare state)
4) Green policies
5) Until recently the transatlantic alliance was the fifth pillar of its ideology

This is an oversimplification. The "elite" has no defined ideology, and to every point (except the first) you can see exceptions.

As to party policy, the AfD is against EU in general, so against point 2, the FDP against point 3 (and in a way the LINKE against it from a leftist position, i.e. no capitalism), the CDU against point 4 (not in rhetorics, but in practical politics), and as to last point: it has been shaken by Trump, and the LINKE has always taken another stance. This is simplified, of course ...

But can this elite:
1) Defend Germany from military invasion without the USA 5)?

No. It is looking for a new strategy (e.g. more European defense, less US), but most will be glad if the USA will be lead by a president that does not act as the head of a rogue state and outlines a policy that can be trusted. But even if Trump loses in 2020, you will not know what is four years later, so the feeling "we must stand on our own feet" will not go, it will only be somewhat not so urgent.

EU (or WEU, or whatsoever) will increase in importance, NATO decrease.

2) Is the emphasis on an increasingly closed group of professional politicians and billionaire leaders of corporate giants healthy for Germany?

No. It supports protest groups like AfD (but in the past every protest group either failed or became part of the elite, as the green party or even to some degree, the leftist LINKE).

3) Are they dealing effectively with Germanys long term structural and demographic issues?

No. Any attempt to address these problems creates a debate, usually between "old" and "young", but depending on the issue it may be between those who want a controlled immigration of young educated workers, xenophobics and those that see immigration as a question of human right (refugees welcome). Or other front lines ... There is no general strategy visible to me, but rather short-term tactics.

 

[mindlight]

I'm German, as you might see from my "avatar"-picture.

I am not German but I live in your country with a wife and children that are all Germans by passport and sense of belonging.

This is an oversimplification. The "elite" has no defined ideology, and to every point (except the first) you can see exceptions.

As to party policy, the AfD is against EU in general, so against point 2, the FDP against point 3 (and in a way the LINKE against it from a leftist position, i.e. no capitalism), the CDU against point 4 (not in rhetorics, but in practical politics), and as to last point: it has been shaken by Trump, and the LINKE has always taken another stance. This is simplified, of course …

AFD politicians and indeed Die Linke politicians are not in the German Elite. They are mainly marginalised from power in Germany. The FDP are a difficult case cause they are close to the business elite. But their lack of political power and influence over the last decade means what they think is not so influential as it once was. To be in the ruling elite right now in Germany you would have to be CDU or SPD.

Trump has definitely shaken things up but maybe the German elite were also already looking for an excuse for cooler relations with the US.

No. It is looking for a new strategy (e.g. more European defense, less US), but most will be glad if the USA will be lead by a president that does not act as the head of a rogue state and outlines a policy that can be trusted. But even if Trump loses in 2020, you will not know what is four years later, so the feeling "we must stand on our own feet" will not go, it will only be somewhat not so urgent.

EU (or WEU, or whatsoever) will increase in importance, NATO decrease.

There has been talk of a European army for many years of course and this is in line with the EU vision of itself as an independent actor on a global stage. But in practice there has been this helpless dependence on NATO and the USA which Trump and indeed BREXIT has now challenged. Europe is quite weak without the USA and indeed Britain. It needs to move beyond the rhetoric and to real spending decisions and cultural changes in attitudes towards the military but there is a resistance in the German public and indeed the German elite to this.

No. It supports protest groups like AfD (but in the past every protest group either failed or became part of the elite, as the green party or even to some degree, the leftist LINKE).

The Green agenda has been absorbed, the CDU has tightened up its views on immigration due to the rise of the AFD but has this really changed the composition of the German elite to any extent. It just demonstrates the core flexibility of these people when they see their control is threatened.

No. Any attempt to address these problems creates a debate, usually between "old" and "young", but depending on the issue it may be between those who want a controlled immigration of young educated workers, xenophobics and those that see immigration as a question of human right (refugees welcome). Or other front lines ... There is no general strategy visible to me, but rather short-term tactics.

The background issue here is the German demographics, Germany needs foreigners to make up your baby deficit but does not like the idea of too many foreigners actually being here. Attempts to change the taxes to encourage Germans to have babies have mainly failed and the deeper problem of a selfish and individualistic generation has not really been addressed. But in the long run this problem will probably resolve itself as Muslim and Christian families have more babies and the more individualistic and nihilistic atheists die out.

 

[helmut]

AFD politicians and indeed Die Linke politicians are not in the German Elite. They are mainly marginalised from power in Germany.

It is a matter of definition, but I can agree to that.

The FDP are a difficult case cause they are close to the business elite. But their lack of political power and influence over the last decade means what they think is not so influential as it once was. To be in the ruling elite right now in Germany you would have to be CDU or SPD.

The FDP once was the decisive link between CDU and SPD, often it was the decision of the FDP which coalition to join that decided which party came into power. This changed with the emergence of the Grünen, and with the strong Linke and AfD making such coalition usually impossible, the FDP lost influence. But it is definitely part of the elite. in the biggest Land, NRW, and in RPF and SLH, the FDP is part of the government.

Trump has definitely shaken things up but maybe the German elite were also already looking for an excuse for cooler relations with the US.

I don't think so.

Not even the unveilings by Snowden changed the attitude of Merkel and the government in general.

There has been talk of a European army for many years of course and this is in line with the EU vision of itself as an independent actor on a global stage.

This talk did not bring any result because the Europeans didn't get a common line what exactly to do. Due of national egoism on almost every side.

Europe is quite weak without the USA and indeed Britain. It needs to move beyond the rhetoric and to real spending decisions and cultural changes in attitudes towards the military but there is a resistance in the German public and indeed the German elite to this.

This resistance is a long term result of the "reeducation" of Germans after 1945. Some who were engaged in it were also theoreticians influential to the 68s movement, with a more or less pacifistic attitude, amplified the resistance to use miltary power.

the CDU has tightened up its views on immigration due to the rise of the AFD but has this really changed the composition of the German elite to any extent. It just demonstrates the core flexibility of these people when they see their control is threatened.

Maybe I used the wrong words. What I wanted to say was: Since the Elite increasingly neglects the lower class, the marginalized groups more and more go to the protest parties, in the last time especially the AfD. The reaction to this is (I hope, only in part) just "flexibility" and no change in attitude.

The background issue here is the German demographics, Germany needs foreigners to make up your baby deficit but does not like the idea of too many foreigners actually being here.

Not all Germans think the same. Though xenophobics are rather loud now, there still is a large group which has not much against foreigners. One problem is, that due to the lack of a coherent immigration policy, the majority of foreigners coming are not the people we need. On the other hand: do we have the moral right to invite people into our country which are urgently needed in their home country? it's a complicated theme.

Attempts to change the taxes to encourage Germans to have babies have mainly failed

They are half-hearted at best. an unmarried mother of two children pays more taxes than a married couple without children, so even on the financial level the incidents given are rather low.

and the deeper problem of a selfish and individualistic generation has not really been addressed.

The ones who address(ed) it are a conservative minority that has still some influence in the CSU, but lost its influence in the CDU.

But in the long run this problem will probably resolve itself as Muslim and Christian families have more babies and the more individualistic and nihilistic atheists die out.

There is much individualism in the two main churches, especially the EKD is rather secular in practice (though the service liturgy is usually very conservative). There are probably more Muslims than living Christians in Germany.