The Gay X-Men

[Kreikkalainen]

Can't read all these huge posts that you made, but I noticed this.

Humility isn't avoiding recognition of the gifts man has been given by the Lord, nor is it continually demaning that by saying to the Lord that what He has called "great" or "beautiful" is to be ashamed of.....

No Orthodox Christian in their right mind will tell you otherwise.

There's this anecdote about a monk who was struggling coming and going between pride and self-loathing. His elder told him to go to his cell, write on one wall all his vices and sins he could remember, and on the opposite wall all the virtues and good works he could remember. When he felt prideful, he would look left and realise his wretched weak state. When he felt depressed and lost courage, he would look right and thank and glorify the Lord for what He has made him worthy to accomplish. And the cycle goes on for ever to keep him (and us) on the right track.

Compare to the modern message. First of, redefine vice and virtue. Secondly, write on your wall whatever you think is a virtue and a good work, so long as it fits within the modern redefinition (in reality, it could be a vice, a virtue or neither). Look at nothing else and keep going blindly like that, for ever glorifying yourself. If somehow you feel uncomfortable, that means you haven't been glorifying yourself enough and your therapist will tell you the solution is to discover / define some more virtues so you can glorify yourself more.

See the difference?

 

[MrJim]

I watched "X-Men First Class" last night

I was reading these comics back the early 80/s ~ movie seemed pretty consistent with the Homo Sapiens/Homo Superior fight that has been the theme since the beginning.

The "not ashamed of being different" can apply to about anything, even religious issues.

'Course I wasn't going to confess my X-geekness till others did first, I thought I was alone

 

[rusmeister]

I watched "X-Men First Class" last night

I was reading these comics back the early 80/s ~ movie seemed pretty consistent with the Homo Sapiens/Homo Superior fight that has been the theme since the beginning.

The "not ashamed of being different" can apply to about anything, even religious issues.

'Course I wasn't going to confess my X-geekness till others did first, I thought I was alone

I think that's very true. Honestly, I enjoyed the movie myself.

This entire thread is only about the slogans and expressions, including expression of ideas, that are precisely those used by the gay lobby. It's already been noted multiple times that many general themes can be about race or anything and this thread is not about that.

There are two things I'd like to know:

A) show of hands- how many people get what I'm saying and see this as well land recognize that it can be done to us much more broadly than in the X-men?

B) does anyone disagree and think that the expressions and ideas in the film do not/will not be applied to the gay movement?

I hope people won't take me as snarky or stodgy, but as the OP, I do have a definite idea of what I wanted to discuss.
I'm willing to discuss/debate with that, but not with discussions of other interpretations of X-Men or other entertainment not related to that.

I hope no one takes my comments personally. I'd just rather have slow or dead threads on topic (when they're "my" threads) than have discussions going all over the place bouncing far away from my topic.
If you want to have such a discussion, the new thread button is at the bottom of the page.

 

[Bryne]

There are two things I'd like to know:

A) show of hands- how many people get what I'm saying and see this as well land recognize that it can be done to us much more broadly than in the X-men?

Yes, I do get what you are saying...though I am not sure that I agree with your conclusions in regards to the X-men. Certainly, it can and is being done in various TV shows and Movies.

B) does anyone disagree and think that the expressions and ideas in the film do not/will not be applied to the gay movement?

The ideas in the film could be applied to the gay movement. They also apply nicely to the civil rights movement, as has been pointed out. Historically, it is the civil rights movement that has been reflected in the X-men.

However, the gay movement has modeled itself in some ways after the civil rights movement. They consider their issues to be civil rights issues. So, it would make sense that something that is reflecting the civil rights movement would also appear as if it were reflecting the gay rights movement.

It is very possible that the film makers had the gay rights movement in mind when making the movie. It is also very possible that they did not, and were only staying true to the civil rights themes that the X-men have always had.

 

[MrJim]

I think that's very true. Honestly, I enjoyed the movie myself.

This entire thread is only about the slogans and expressions, including expression of ideas, that are precisely those used by the gay lobby. It's already been noted multiple times that many general themes can be about race or anything and this thread is not about that.

There are two things I'd like to know:

A) show of hands- how many people get what I'm saying and see this as well land recognize that it can be done to us much more broadly than in the X-men?

B) does anyone disagree and think that the expressions and ideas in the film do not/will not be applied to the gay movement?

I hope people won't take me as snarky or stodgy, but as the OP, I do have a definite idea of what I wanted to discuss.
I'm willing to discuss/debate with that, but not with discussions of other interpretations of X-Men or other entertainment not related to that.

I hope no one takes my comments personally. I'd just rather have slow or dead threads on topic (when they're "my" threads) than have discussions going all over the place bouncing far away from my topic.
If you want to have such a discussion, the new thread button is at the bottom of the page.

I understand what you are saying~I've often said about tv/movies in general that while often they can present positive elements very often it is without any sort of spiritual grounding...there are all sorts of "safe" tv programs or movies with decent value presented yet they are done in a vacuum where God is not central, where church is not central, where prayer is not central--the underlying foundation is that they are not needed, that man is able on his own to create his own truths. So a storyline can be turned toward any direction the director chooses and and sort of people ground can view a program through their own particular lenses. (this was all probably said already; haven't read through the entire thread)

...though Nightcrawler is a good Catholic ~~in the comics he and Logan had many conversations about faith..

 

[Kreikkalainen]

Rus :- I haven't even seen or read the X-Men, but I agree with A, in that such messages are found everywhere in the entertainment industry.

Easy :- You are right I took your point in isolation. That's because reading all of your postings and watching all the videos would make a full-time job and I don't work on Saturdays . But I didn't disagree with your quote, I actually expounded on it and said as an Orthodox Christian that's what I believe too. I don't see the source of your "sharp disagreement". I agree with your reply, although I don't see the need for all this and anyway we are getting waaaaay beyond the topic of this thread .

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Easy :- You are right I took your point in isolation. That's because reading all of your postings and watching all the videos would make a full-time job and I don't work on Saturdays .

Trying to keep it as short as possible, though some of it's there for simple reference. Would NEVER expect someone to read through everything

But I didn't disagree with your quote, I actually expounded on it and said as an Orthodox Christian that's what I believe too. I don't see the source of your "sharp disagreement".

My bad, as I went back and noted where you said "Orthodox Christian in their right mind will tell you otherwise."...and for some reason, it initially read to me as if you were saying Orthodox Christians HAVE been saying otherwise in regards to what I noted.

No I agree with your reply, although I don't see the need for all this and anyway we are getting waaaaay beyond the topic of this thread .

The topic, from what I understand, is how diversity/tolerance for gays has been something that the X-Men films were leveraged for wrongly...and in line with that, what I've also seen discussed is that those focusing on diversity/being proud of how they were made (As was discussed earlier with examples in the X-Men movie of the "mutant and proud" theme) are not be accepted. I think the issue can be sticky if there's not a proper definition given on what it means to value oneself while also looking directly unto the Lord for that worth---as opposed to what many see X-Men saying when it comes to celebrating differences for their own sake in a world that doesn't believe that the Messiah is the one whom all value must flow from.

 

[Dorothea]

*raising hand* Yes, I agree with A.

 

[Aloha Joe]

"Um, no offense, but you’re wrong. I helped write the movie and can tell you the gay rights/post-Holocaust Jewish identity/civil rights allegory stuff was all put in there on purpose.

Joss Whedon designed the whole ‘Cure’ storyline in the comic books specifically as a gay allegory, and Bryan Singer wove his own feelings of outsiderdom as a gay man into the movie series.

The whole ‘have you ever tried NOT being a mutant’ coming out scene in X2 isn’t even particularly subtle, while it is effective."

-X-Men: First Class screenwriter Zack Stentz, responding to an online commenter who insisted there was no gay subtext in X-men

...

It seems that "X-Men" and "X-Men 2" represent your identities as a Jew living in America and as a gay man respectively, because in this one there is a homosexuality/homophobia subtext...

Well, yeah. That is also a very relevant analogy because where certain races, even a Jewish boy or a Jewish girl, will be born into a Jewish family, or a Jewish community sometimes, or an African American or whatever minority in any given area, a gay kid doesn't discover he or she is gay until around puberty. And their parents aren't gay necessarily, and their classmates aren't, and they feel truly alone in the world and have to find, sometimes never find, a way to live.

So you're exploring your own situation in these films?

Absolutely. And what better way than in a giant, action, summer event movie! I could think of no better place to spill out one's own personal problems and foist them onto the world [laughs]. And for that, I apologise.

-BBC interview with X-Men and X2 Director Bryan Singer

 

[Dorothea]

Again, Dorothea said it best, about the "me" generation focusing on loving one self, on self- esteem, self-help, self-this, self-that, in a word, selfishness. Even the whole concept of rights, a good thing in their proper proportion, works toward that.

This country is all about what you just named. I don't think it necessarily started off that way, but to a certain extent, there was a thread of it from the beginning and has grown since then. I don't like to use quotes from Frank Schaeffer, but it was back in the mid 1990s when he did a talk of the State of the Union, and pretty much talked a lot of our country being this way. He said the US's national Anthem is more close to Frank Sinatra's "I Did It May Way." And that schools especially spend all this time on raising people's self-esteem for no good reason.

I think it is because of how we are portrayed in the media, movies, and how our government has been for the past several decades, etc. - this perception that we have given ourselves - this type of presence - that other countries see us as arrogant, power-hungry, and all about the all-mighty dollar and dominating other countries.

The meeker and generous folks (and there are lots) are left in the shadows.

JMO.

 

[rusmeister]

-X-Men: First Class screenwriter Zack Stentz, responding to an online commenter who insisted there was no gay subtext in X-men


-BBC interview with X-Men and X2 Director Bryan Singer

Thanks, AJ,
Nice to have good solid relevant post. I hadn't seen that stuff, but it sure makes my point!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Pride has mixed connotations. But as we can appreciate our crosses and count it all joy, we can appreciate our differences that bring us suffering and yet enhance our lives.

M.

I agree. Too often it seems that our crosses are not things which we choose to celebrate or enjoy in the Lord...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It's actually quite profound to witness the evolution from fear that you're different to acceptance and then to appreciation of your inherent differences.M.

Fear is always the basis for hating many things that were never meant to be hated or despised. Even as it concerns those who may be gay, that is an issue...concerning their treatment.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread has been cleaned up.
Please remember that if you are not EO you may not debate in this area.
Thanks
​

 

[Criada]

testing

 

[Photini]

People just aren't willing to take a step back and examine the type of entertainment that they are consuming. It DOES have an effect on your mind and your soul whether we like to admit it or not.

Now there's an inconvenient truth.