The Gay X-Men

Kreikkalainen

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Basically, understanding our weaknesses, accepting them, trying not to dwell in them, even finding blessings-in-disguise in them and trying to walk life in Christ with them on board is one thing - and it applies to all, not only visibly clinical cases. Calling our weaknesses not-weaknesses, a reason for pride, and having cartoons explaining us the same from pre-school age is quite another (I'm saying this wrt the original post and I think Rus will like it :)).

I am not shy, but I was the youngest child of four, I saw mum through quite a bit of stuff, clinical and non-clinical, so I understand some of the real-life challenges. Sometimes survival is the most important thing and getting some outsider from across the pond (that's me :)) pontificating doesn't help.

Just saw Monica's reply. I understand & I'm with you.
 
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TheCunctator

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If you see this without people needing to tell you it's there, chances are your fears are entirely justified.

I thought it was rather clear from watching the latest X-Men movie.
The HBO show True Blood works in a similar vein. They talk about "coming out of the coffin" and are surrounded by people who assert that "God hates fangs" and are outright hostile to them.
 
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TheCunctator

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Actually, yes. The local kids taunt "r*****" (sorry swear filter caught it) when they pass our house. One of them stole his bike last year. A group of boys knocked him to the ground and made him eat sand while calling him a "re****ed freak". Teenagers at the zoo followed him around mocking the way he walks. I've even heard grown adults say nasty things.

You have to remember that as recently as 50 years ago autistic kids were regularly institutionalized.

People are mean. A few years ago he had to go to the hospital because he was threatening suicide.

I think I want to vomit. People are absolutely repulsive.
 
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Kreikkalainen

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I've seen totally explicit stuff shown on TV at 4pm when all kids are watching. Marriage cancelled due to would-be-husband "coming out" at the last moment, then would-have-been-husband and would-have-been-wife doing a goodbye hug, while would-have-been-husband is saying something along the lines of "you are a great girl, I'm sorry I couldn't do that, now I'm leaving, I'm sure where I'm going I'll find another girl, or a nice guy, who knows". Would-have-been-husband also had a daughter, no idea who the mother is (if any), that would-have-been-wife keeps behind promising to bring her up in such a way so "she can accept her father as he is" yada yada.

I used to make fun of over-zealous people not having a TV, but I think we are reaching a point where it'll make sense, especially if you have kids to bring up. With the internet you aren't missing on information & if you really have to entertain yourself by starring at a screen, there can be well-selected video games much better than the stuff on TV.
 
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choirfiend

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We have a TV, but do most of our watching through the internet. No commercials and we watch what we want, when we want! Planning on getting DVDs of Sesame St, Reading Rainbow, and old Looney Tune for the kiddo, too.
 
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Kristos

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I think that part of our journey toward becoming " wise as serpents" is to learn to recognize when values - morals - contrary to our faith, our worldview are being so subtly impressed upon us.

After having watched the latest X-Men movie, I feel that something I have noticed for some time needs to be expressed.

Some of us know the tremendous value that stories and fairy tales have in expressing truths - or what we believe to be true - in a disguised form, making the acceptance of those ideas more palatable. C.S. Lewis expressed it as "getting past the watchful dragons", and the effect is to get ideas across to minds hostile to the naked ideas when caught out in the open. Both the imaginary worlds of Narnia and Middle Earth certainly do get across deeply Christian ideas in a format that even people hostile to faith can enjoy.

Sometimes, the attempt does not work. Philip Pullman's fantasy series fails for it's excessive obviousness, it's "preachiness" in attempting to ape the techniques, used successfully by Lewis and Tolkien, to promote atheist ideas.

But the X-Men DOES work - only it does so in the sense of successfully communicating false ideas - for it is popular entertainment in the superhero genre that does carry the modern attitudes towards "sexual orientation" and "gender" (what our grandparents called simply our "sex") which actively promote the idea that there IS no normal or abnormal, but only "alternative norms". Much is made of the X-Men being different and needing to "accept who they are". In the latest film, X-Men: First Class, it becomes more blatant: "Mutant, and proud", and harping on the need to accept and embrace " who you are" (something true enough when it really IS who you are), echoing the slogans and sentiments of the gay lobby. And so even a person otherwise committed to traditional Christian faith, or at least "traditional values" - which really are Christian in origin - rejecting the modern attitude towards homosexual desire and action, is nevertheless subtly influenced in favor of tolerance of the views promoted by the gay lobby, that what they desire is a natural and normal outcome of who they are, defining themselves by their desires. The false analogy of fantastic "natural characteristics" of the person to the sexual desires experienced by people is thus successfully brought past the watchful dragons of common sense, where the naked idea still is, for now, rejected by most people. It becomes part of the onslaught begun in public education, controlled by a tiny minority of radicals, and continued here in the media against the common sense and traditional morality always held across space and time.

In this brave new world, there is to be no "normal"; or more accurately, every person will provide their own definition of the norm. We're supposed to look at Raven in all her blue scaly "glory" and sympathize with Magneto when he says he prefers her that way. Likewise with "the Beast" and so on. Abnormal preferences are to become the new norm. Raven is supposed to disdain her desire to be beautiful as if that were the abnormal thing.

I'm not saying that the movies are bad and wicked. I AM saying that they express the attitude at the heart of the support for "gay rights", and it behooves us to recognize when that attitude is being championed, even in entertainment.

I haven't seen this movie, but I have noticed similar messages in other films. Thanks for the insight Rus!
 
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Blackknight

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I don't really think it has anything to do with gays although they could be included with many other groups that are discriminated against and ostracized because of their ideas or behavior. It is important to be true to your own beliefs and screw what anybody else thinks.
 
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rusmeister

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I don't really think it has anything to do with gays although they could be included with many other groups that are discriminated against and ostracized because of their ideas or behavior. It is important to be true to your own beliefs and screw what anybody else thinks.

On this I will ask if you think there is absolutely no connection between "mutant and proud!" and "gay and proud!" is it really just a wild chance coincidence?

We all discriminate against ideas and behavior, and can be absolutely right in doing so. "Discriminate" really means "distinguish". It can be a good or a bad thing, and that is the question that the modern use of the word begs, but no one asks.

Your last sentence is an expression of the supremacy of the individual (something that runs against the grain of Orthodoxy), and implies that he need not consider social concerns. I think there is a place for that; when one is sure of truth and that truth is unpopular, for example. But sometimes we are wrong,and if we are not very very sure, it is generally wise to consider thought
that differs from our own, even if we ultimately reject it.
 
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MKJ

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Most of the gay pride stuff comes right out of the civil rights movement, including the slogans. Overall it is pretty hard to differentiate the source material.

In any case, I think what has been said here about people with other difficulties does actually apply to people with same sex attraction as well. It can be a problem, but also a source to be drawn on.
 
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Monica child of God 1

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Most of the gay pride stuff comes right out of the civil rights movement, including the slogans. Overall it is pretty hard to differentiate the source material.

Yeah, when I hear "Mutant and proud!" I hear "I'm Black and I'm proud!" a la James Brown. Before anyone argues about "pride" and being Black let me say that you have no idea how shameful it was to be Black, have dark skin and Afro type hair and facial features for centuries. I don't even want to get into an arguement about that. My head might start spinning.

In any case, I think what has been said here about people with other difficulties does actually apply to people with same sex attraction as well. It can be a problem, but also a source to be drawn on.

I agree. I was thinking about Father Mychal Judge, the RC priest who died when the towers fell on 9/11. He was gay and this led him to a special ministry for gay men with AIDS in the '80. This was back when no one really knew what AIDS was. Some doctors and nurses even refused to treat and especially touch patients. Father Mychal went into nursing homes with annointing oil and massaged the feet of AIDS patients. Some of these patients had been rejected by their families and church communities. Father Mychal, willing to annoint their feet with oil, listen and not judge brought many back into communion with God before they died. Being gay, though surely a cross, was part of what made him a better priest.

M.
 
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Dorothea

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Hi Monica,
Yes, I know that the idea of something that makes a person radically different can be turned to advantage; I am simply not speaking to that. That a person can be a Jew, or black, and that this is a normal human condition, not abnormal, is self-evident. I am speaking to something else - the false analogy drawn from that truth to justify abomination; it is part and parcel of the whole effort to cast homosexual desire as a completely normal feeling; that genuine abnormalities are to be treated as completely
normal. Now it is rather blatant when (I believe it was Raven) says "Mutant - and proud!", which is taken directly from the LGBT playbook. Maybe you honestly can't see that, in which case there is not much we can productively say to each other.
But if you DO see that, then that's mainly what I'm trying to say in it's simplest form.
I've never seen the X-Men or any of those types of marvel comics/super hero shows since the first 3 Superman movies ages ago with Christopher Reeves, so I can't comment on the show.

What I do think is I get tired of the "be proud to be yourself," and "love yourself," and all this promotion of self-worth that turns into conceit, self-centeredness, and pride, if you will. It's all about whatever you are with your passions, sins, it's just who you are, and it can't change, and nobody can make you change! Just be who you are and be proud of it and stomp on anyone who dares to say anything against your ego!

That's the problem I see in this society, and the American culture as a whole for the past several decades....you know...the "ME" generation.
 
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Dorothea

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"i am a no-tv-er and i am proud"!!!


i think science fiction movies are preparing us for the future, which is not very far away if we look around us and see cloning, genetically modified seeds and species.

just me.
A week or so ago, I saw a news story online about some Japanese scientists are coming up parts of the brain being replaced with robotics. :o
 
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I'm a huge X-Men fan. I have been for years. Anything with "Marvel" on it and I'M THERE!

That being said, I adore the X-Men movies (yes, even the third one). But I will say that I do not like a few aspects. I don't like the undertones in the third movie with the "mutant cure." It seemed like a parallel of us being able to "fix" gay people into straight folks. "I like the way I am!" and "I'm meant to be this way" seemed the theme of the movie. We are never sure if mutant is akin to gay or racism or what?

I also don't like the typical premarital sex references like Logan asking Bobby and Rogue, "so how do you two do it?" assuming that anyone dating MUST be in bed together....typical

But overall, they're great movies. Hey, with Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan in the same flick, hard to go wrong period...
 
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Protoevangel

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I'm not saying that the movies are bad and wicked. I AM saying that they express the attitude at the heart of the support for "gay rights", and it behooves us to recognize when that attitude is being championed, even in entertainment.
Thank you for the review, Rus! This is something I will keep in mind when i eventually get around to watching it.


Great conversation all the way around, too.
 
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rusmeister

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Thanks, all. I don't think there's real argument here.

Some are speaking to the point that the mutants represent differences, particularly in terms of race or disability. No argument. It certainly can. Until quite recently, I think that's all it was.

But I started this thread to point out what D called "the hijacking" of that theme. Gurney rightly pointed out the earlier example from a previous film - I didn't base everything on one movie - I've been noticing this for some time. (Oh, and I love watching Patrick Stewart)

I think Dorothea hit the main point - and the main problem for the Orthodox Christian - the modern insistence on loving oneself and being proud of oneself. In a real sense, I think a slave (of any color) with a low self-esteem is closer to salvation than the person who is proud of himself. The example of Fr Mychal is a perfect one - the very opposite of proud. He turned his focus away from being
proud of himself and loving himself to loving
others.

The reason it is difficult to differentiate the source material is because the "gay lobby" has identified the issue as one of a right which they are denied, rather than a disorder to be dealt with. Therefore they appeal to civil rights, and so where the X-Men once served as
a legitimate vehicle to express indignation at a genuine injustice and encourage it's redressing, it is now being used as an illegitimate vehicle to express indignation at an imaginary injustice - for human justice is not the cause of the problem. No one suggests creating a cure for being black - or (insert color of skin here) - but they certainly do for the person suffering from same-sex attraction disorder (SSAD, or simply "sad"). (I was just realizing the effectiveness of having an extremely short word that can be used with the verb "to be", which "sad" people have successfully used by identifying themselves as "gay" - well, I hereby propose turning the tables on them and with a similar adjective of opposite meaning, but one that expresses truth.)
 
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TheCunctator

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Most of the gay pride stuff comes right out of the civil rights movement, including the slogans. Overall it is pretty hard to differentiate the source material.

In any case, I think what has been said here about people with other difficulties does actually apply to people with same sex attraction as well. It can be a problem, but also a source to be drawn on.

The truth is the gay rights movement attached itself to the civil rights movement from the beginning. The only thing that was different is that initially the gay rights movement was a lot more open, a lot more aggressive, and a lot more demanding, and, to make it worse, it was publicly associated with the paedophile movement. In fact, if you read one of the very first 'gay manifestos' there is a point calling for the abolition of all age of consent laws.

But I started this thread to point out what D called "the hijacking" of that theme. Gurney rightly pointed out the earlier example from a previous film - I didn't base everything on one movie - I've been noticing this for some time. (Oh, and I love watching Patrick Stewart)

Hollywood does this sort of thing all the time. The average movie goer doesn't notice because they try to subtly weave it into the film. But effectively, it is a tool to propagandize people. Just like we teach children stories to teach them morality, so the movies are being used to promote acceptance and "tolerance." It's not a coincidence or a random observation that these movies promote a certain agenda.

To take another example, look at Thor. Thor was all about multiculturalism and such. Do you think the mythical Thor and Askad would have had black time guards and Asian warriors? No. The brother in the movie is of a certain "people" that were attacked by Askad. He became a self-hating one, and the end tried to "wipe out an entire race of people" (this dialog is almost blatant toward the end of the movie), an obvious reference to Hitler and the holocaust.
 
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Dorothea

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I've seen totally explicit stuff shown on TV at 4pm when all kids are watching. Marriage cancelled due to would-be-husband "coming out" at the last moment, then would-have-been-husband and would-have-been-wife doing a goodbye hug, while would-have-been-husband is saying something along the lines of "you are a great girl, I'm sorry I couldn't do that, now I'm leaving, I'm sure where I'm going I'll find another girl, or a nice guy, who knows". Would-have-been-husband also had a daughter, no idea who the mother is (if any), that would-have-been-wife keeps behind promising to bring her up in such a way so "she can accept her father as he is" yada yada.

I used to make fun of over-zealous people not having a TV, but I think we are reaching a point where it'll make sense, especially if you have kids to bring up. With the internet you aren't missing on information & if you really have to entertain yourself by starring at a screen, there can be well-selected video games much better than the stuff on TV.
We got rid of our satellite tv a few months back. Wasn't worth paying nearly $80 for a handful of channels we watched. Also, most of the channels were blocked by us, but we still had to go through turning the channel from risque commercials and the such. It's ridiculous.

We thought we'd really miss tv, but we don't! The kids miss a couple of their shows every now and then, but they're fine. If we want to watch something, we get out a movie and put it in, or we play video games together.
 
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