The Gay Christian Dilemma

[Truthfrees]

One other key point about getting God's help to change is find out who HE says you are.

One hindrance to change is when I don't believe I am who God says I am.

In one struggle I had I labelled myself as being "weak, ineffective, failing" and I matched my own thoughts and expectations of myself. Proverbs 23:7

When God spoke to me and told me I was anointed (meaning filled with HIS power), I said "really?" God said "YES". I stopped and pondered God's words and you know what, that simple belief in who God said I REALLY was changed EVERYTHING INSTANTLY in that situation. I was permanently free from that struggle from then on.

Many times I've labelled myself with the struggle, when I should have labelled myself with who God said I am.

Other times I've labelled myself with who people said I am, when I should have labelled myself with who God said I am IN CHRIST.

Who am I really? Who are you really? Whatever God's word says we are.

My feelings about myself are not really who I am. God's words are true, and everyone else including myself is wrong when I disagree with God's words. Romans 3:4

I'm a new creation in Christ. All the old things are passed away. Everything has become brand new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

When I find out what that means it changes me.

Even Christians can have the wrong image and expectations of themselves until they find out the truth of who they are in CHRIST, who God says they are.

Then the power of understanding who God says we are IN CHRIST can change us by God's power not our own.

This thread is causing me to look back at my failures and my successes to examine what worked and what didn't.

Failures are frustrating. Successes are glorious.

Anyway, I'm standing for you and your success.

You raise very valid points.

 

[SkyWriting]

It should be obvious to most people, gays are caught between a rock and hard place when it comes to trying to live a virtuous life. Gays have the same dreams and wishes as heterosexuals: love, marriage, families, companionship, intimacy, etc. But according to mainstream Christianity, pursuing any type of same-sex relationship will land one in hell as it is a grave sin.

Not loving others is a problem as well. Starting is the only solution.

 

[SkyWriting]

Why would God give gay people this burden?

Not the "Why me" whine again.

 

[Stepcoach]

Are gays just a lost cause, destined to suffer on earth and suffer eternally?

Not according to the bible, God in Heaven, nor God on earth (Immanuel).
Bottom line: if a gay person is not saved, he is going to Hell. If a gay person accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and savior, he is a Christian. The most important position toward lost folk is to lead them to Christ. The most import position toward Christians is to love them as brothers and sisters. (By this shall they know your are mine, that you love one another.) If a gay person is saved, any issue about their convictions is between then and their Father. Let Dad handle it, brothers, it’s above your pay grade.

 

[Anto9us]

Christian Gays got a long row to hoe; anyway ya look at it.
Wish I could wave a wand and say "OK from now on - all Christians will be gay-accepting/gay-affirming" but it doesn't work that way

I am ancient (65) and I doubt that few here currently posting at CF remember actually seeing "white only water fountains" and signs about 'colored to the back of the bus' but I sure did and no, not a pretty sight.

So time alone won't fix things, but over time, things do change in people's attitudes; though still a long way to go - race attitudes have changed, and so will attitudes towards gays. It's inevitable.

I printed out Jeramy Townsley's biblical stuff about "Bible doesn't speak out about committed same-sex relations" but rather temple prostitution, preying on the young, etc

Some good stuff - some begs the issue

Main thing for me is that it is not a CHOICE - these orientations IMO are established way early on in childhood - I did not CHOOSE to be heterosexual, but way back in kindergarten I felt I would just DIE if I didn't sit next to that certain girl during cookies and koolaid (that was b4 'drink the koolaid' had any negative connotations)

So why persecute people for something established so early in life for reasons no one knows?
Science really has no firm answers as to why someone is straight, gay or bi.

I was in the Episcopal Church, at a Charismatic Episcopal Church in Dallas years ago, when there was appointed/elected a Gay Bishop in New Hampshire. Ugly backlash.

I went back to Methodist.
Recently United Methodists got a Lesbian Bishop in California - less backlash, but still may cause a split, though it may not happen.

If 'WHOSOEVER WILL... forum' can be a safe haven here for Marius and other gay Christians - good.

Will the more conservative forums suddenly become gay-accepting? Not any time soon.

Frankly, I first came to this sub-forum cuz I thought "whosoever will" indicated Arminianism - it had nothing to do with it - just caught my eye that way at first

 

[hedrick]

Yes, I remember as a kid the first time I saw separate bathrooms for white and colored. Unfortunately race isn't behind us yet, as we're seeing on a regular basis. I think attitudes on sexual orientation are actually changing more quickly.

 

[Philip_B]

Yes, I remember as a kid the first time I saw separate bathrooms for white and colored. Unfortunately race isn't behind us yet, as we're seeing on a regular basis. I think attitudes on sexual orientation are actually changing more quickly.

I think that the rate of social change, however, is one of the great tensions in contemporary society. To some extent there is a level of overt pressure simply designed to shift (or manipulate) social change. I understand that change will always be too fast for some, and too slow for others. It seems that our reality TV shows have to have the mandatory gay (M/F) in them, and even game shows, and many TV series now include a gay subplot. To some extent that is fair in reflecting what is happening in society and to some extent it seems to be pushing the agenda. Part of the human experience is the expressions of tribe and home, (be that white, black, indian, aboriginal, ... be that male, female, ... be that class, social status, income stream, old money, new money, no money, ... be that gay, straight, bi, lesbian, queer, asexual, indifferent ... be that Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jew, Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, ... be that ... ) It is our capacity to accept the other that causes us most problems. And one of the problems we have in addressing these issues is that we can not fix history, we can only fix the future.

The world might be a better place if everyone was like you (me) however it would not be as interesting, challenging, or capable of so much good if that were the case. We all need to do better in reflecting God's inextinguishable love.

 

[FireDragon76]

Unfortunately race isn't behind us yet, as we're seeing on a regular basis. I think attitudes on sexual orientation are actually changing more quickly.

Attitudes about sex have changed quickly. I think its easy to forget that only about a century ago, Protestant attitudes towards sexual activity were very narrow in the scope of what was acceptable. There was virtually no difference between Catholics and Protestants on that issue, in fact. Even theologians like Karl Barth had regressive, Augustinian attitudes about sex.

 

[Philip_B]

Attitudes about sex have changed quickly. I think its easy to forget that only about a century ago, Protestant attitudes towards sexual activity were very narrow in the scope of what was acceptable. There was virtually no difference between Catholics and Protestants on that issue, in fact. Even theologians like Karl Barth had regressive, Augustinian attitudes about sex.

Interesting the 2 theologians you chose

 

[baryogenesis]

What I have been quite surprised to recently come to understand, is that the actual "gay Christian dilemma" isn't about those Christians who live in Christ, who know the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, guiding their prayers, Scriptural studies, interpretation, Gifts of the Spirit, etc. The actual dilemma is for the believer who still lives under the Law that was nailed to a cross for our sake. It is for them who cannot bring themselves to apprehend God's infinitude of "mysteries," his ways "beyond tracing out" by our flawed, mortal "wisdom." Of the nature of our almost childish notions of God. Of His Creation. Of His Grace. Of our fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord who we may not understand as well as we like to imagine. The wisdom of God and the Way in which He chooses (utterly beyond our accounting) to bring us near to Him; for Christ to interceed for each of us as individuals -- literally standing between our Judge and our Accuser. Not merely to show the Accuser that God's Grace has essentially obviated Lucifer's plenary purpose at the Final Judgement, but to give us the most prescious of all gifts: the measure of faith God appointed to us -- that which covers all, and allows us to stand. The "gay Christian dilemma" is nothing but a choice for many Christians to make about how effective they believe they are at being among God's counselors -- those who believe they understand the Mind of God, and His Purpose for each and every one of us. I do not belive that any of us mortals possess this wisdom. But we often behave as if we do! Collectively, we would be better off if we just stopped trying to "fathom the unfathomable" and instead seek humility before our Merciful Creator, forgiveness for our sins -- including asking forgiveness of those for whom Christ also died, who we have (inadvertently or otherwise) done little more than lay in the street as a stumbling block in our desire to instill within their mortal minds the same flawed "wisdom" that fills up most of ours. All of us are too easily drawn to intellectually lazy Phariseeism in these matters. While often remaining blind to His vast and incomprehensible Creation. His Creation of us. His redemption of us.

As well, it would also help us all if we tried to stop enthusiastically assisting the Accuser in his dead-end job. What is the point? We know how this ends.

 

[SkyWriting]

As well, it would also help us all if we tried to stop enthusiastically assisting the Accuser in his dead-end job. What is the point? We know how this ends.

It ends with God judging us based on our treatment of others and the depth of our hostility for fellow sinners.