The Gap Theory in Genesis - Between verses 1:1 and 1:2

[AV1611VET]

I think the lack of this clarity is one of the main aspects God wants us to accept.

I agree.

1 Corinthians 13:12a For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

We theistic evolutionists do.

Only in church. Because if you're an honest person you go where the evidence leads no matter what the book says. Theistic evolutionists who publish in scientific journals don't quote bible versus in their papers as part of their research because it's not relevant.

However you want to try and twist and mangle the interpretations of the scriptures of your religion to fit the reality we observe is a personal matter between you, other believers and your god. Thus, a theological discussion. Not a scientific one. Take it over there.

 

[AV1611VET]

Theistic evolutionists who publish in scientific journals don't quote bible versus in their papers as part of their research because it's not relevant.

But it's okay for science to use names like El Niño, isn't it?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

But it's okay for science to use names like El Niño, isn't it?

"Science" didn't give it that name. Peruvian fishermen did. Is it any worse than you using a computer? Or a phone? Or pretty much anything else you use or know about our society? None of that is in the Bible.

Besides, no one denies that Christianity has had a huge cultural impact on western civilization. What is denied is that that has anything to do with the truth of the beliefs of those Christians. It doesn't.

 

[AV1611VET]

Or a phone? Or pretty much anything else you use or know about our society? None of that is in the Bible.

Then why is God's phone number in the Bible? Jeremiah 333?

Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

 

[DogmaHunter]

No, it happened before Adam existed and led to the earth becoming desolate and waste, and darkness covering the surface of the deep......

God’s creation (the sixth creation - man) then afterwards went from being very good to becoming corrupt to the point He saw fit to wipe out all life but representatives of each kind in a global flood.

Soon there will be a sixth destruction and a seventh and final creation.

Hence 666. Sixth creation on the sixth day and the cause of the sixth destruction to come....

Isn't it strange that while this god is supposed to be omnipotent and all-intelligent, and whatnot... that his creation gets messed up time and again, forcing him to "whipe it clean" and start over again?

It's like every time he does something, it ends badly.

 

[mark kennedy]

Only in church. Because if you're an honest person you go where the evidence leads no matter what the book says. Theistic evolutionists who publish in scientific journals don't quote bible versus in their papers as part of their research because it's not relevant.

However you want to try and twist and mangle the interpretations of the scriptures of your religion to fit the reality we observe is a personal matter between you, other believers and your god. Thus, a theological discussion. Not a scientific one. Take it over there.

Theistic evolutionists interpret science and the Bible the way you do, so their ok right? Creation is the inverse of the naturalist assumptions you built your worl view upon. Between the two of them they exhause the possible explations. It might interest you to know all pagan traditions can be traced backnto elementals, earth, air, fire and water. The Scriptures are an annomoly from the ancient near east, a God that did not descent from pagan elemental and embodied a concept known as righteousness.

That old book you disparage is the best preserved collection of living document from antiquity. All the pagan one are from dead religions, dead civilations, and written in dead languages.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Theistic evolutionists interpret science and the Bible the way you do, so their ok right?

Yes. Why is that controversial? As long as they agree with observations it doesn't matter what their interpretations are. It is irrelevant.

The uniqueness or anomalies of your religion have no bearing on the truth of it. It is inconsequential. I've already acknowledged Christianity's impact and influence on western society. I have no problem with that. But, again, it has nothing to do with the truth of the claims. That's all.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Isn't it strange that while this god is supposed to be omnipotent and all-intelligent, and whatnot... that his creation gets messed up time and again, forcing him to "whipe it clean" and start over again?

It's like every time he does something, it ends badly.

That's what free will gives you instead of robots that follow programs......

I guess some think we should be programmed robots with no free will to choose? granted with robots you wouldn't have had Hitler, but that's the price you pay for free will.....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Yes. Why is that controversial? As long as they agree with observations it doesn't matter what their interpretations are. It is irrelevant.

The uniqueness or anomalies of your religion have no bearing on the truth of it. It is inconsequential. I've already acknowledged Christianity's impact and influence on western society. I have no problem with that. But, again, it has nothing to do with the truth of the claims. That's all.

What observations are those? Fossils that every single one remain the same across millions of years with not the slightest change? New forms appearing suddenly, just as we observe with dogs?

So I agree the observations show Kind after Kind (just as all dogs are the same species) and that evolutionists simply incorrectly call the new variation a new species.... for no other reason that it looks a little different, like a wolf and a poodle.

But then I am not the one that relies on "missing" common ancestors that can't be found for any single tree in an attempt to link what are in reality separate species......

I understand that if all evolutionists had were a few fragments of dog bones and had never seen them in real life, they would classify them as separate species and think one evolved into another. Incorrect, but understandable.

But of course an evolutionists would never consider actual real life when contemplating their fantasies of how life evolved in the past. Realizing all those they call separate species are merely variations of the same species, and that where they have to insert "missing" common ancestors in a false attempt to link creatures, is where the division between species actually lies.....

 

[DogmaHunter]

That's what free will gives you instead of robots that follow programs......

I guess some think we should be programmed robots with no free will to choose? granted with robots you wouldn't have had Hitler, but that's the price you pay for free will.....

I'm just saying... It just seems like every time he tries something, it ends badly.

Sure, everyone is responsible for his own decisions... But I also believe that parents share, to a large extent, in responsability for how their children turn out to be and behave.

His "solutions" for when it ends badly, also seem rather radical and extreme overkill.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I'm just saying... It just seems like every time he tries something, it ends badly.

Sure, everyone is responsible for his own decisions... But I also believe that parents share, to a large extent, in responsability for how their children turn out to be and behave.

His "solutions" for when it ends badly, also seem rather radical and extreme overkill.

We are creations, not products of natural childbirth as are your children...

Although in analogy, look at the number of children born that don't end up like their parents, say 100%?

So Hitler's parents should have been shot? Or Manson's parents jailed?

Or can we just admit that no one is responsible for the actions of another adult that is capable of making their own decisions?

Seems most of humanity agrees with Him, since death penalties are our ultimate solution.....

 

[DogmaHunter]

We are creations, not products of natural childbirth as are your children...

I don't know about you, but I was the result of natural childbirth.
Well, close enough anyway: it was a c-section.

And I don't see how it changes anything.
If my "child" is created in a laboratory under a microscope and then grown in a test tube and subsequent artificial incubator - i'ld still share responsability in its upbringing.

Although in analogy, look at the number of children born that don't end up like their parents, say 100%?

So you are saying that parents have no control whatsoever of how their child will turn out to be?

I could raise my child teaching him to be a violent, homophobic, racist and the child then turning out to be a hippy universal human rights activist would be just as likely as it actually turning out as a violent homophobic racist?

Do you really believe that?

So Hitler's parents should have been shot? Or Manson's parents jailed?

Good job focussing on the 0.000001% and pretending as if it is the default.

Or can we just admit that no one is responsible for the actions of another adult that is capable of making their own decisions?

In general, humans are the product of their environment.
Someone raised in a loving home with a proper education and focus on moral values etc, will generally not turn out as a drug dealing torturing gang member that doesn't care about anything.

Neglected kids however, who's parents are unemployed lazy drug users for example... They usually don't make much of themselves and will indeed have a lot more chances ending up as a drug dealing torturing gang member.

The exceptions don't make the rule.

Seems most of humanity agrees with Him, since death penalties are our ultimate solution.....

Except in the civilised world, where the death penalty has been abolished.
Yes, that indeed implies what it seems to imply...

However, "death penalties" are not your god's "ultimate solution". His "ultimate solution" rather seems to be utter and complete destruction of anything and everything, to the point of the most extreme genocides imaginable.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I don't know about you, but I was the result of natural childbirth.
Well, close enough anyway: it was a c-section.

And I don't see how it changes anything.
If my "child" is created in a laboratory under a microscope and then grown in a test tube and subsequent artificial incubator - i'ld still share responsability in its upbringing.

Sure, because you require it to be a baby instead of an adult capable of taking care of itself upon it's creation...... With the knowledge to name every animal in existence already.... There is no analogy you can make that represents the reality..... Their was no need to "raise" Adam from a child to an adult with full knowledge. he already was an adult with full knowledge..... At least try to use an appropriate metaphor....

So you are saying that parents have no control whatsoever of how their child will turn out to be?

Not at all, and Adam and Eve were "good" nay, very good. It was something else that caused their upbringing to fail. But again, God didn't "raise" Adam and Eve from babies, but created them fully adult with knowledge. They had no need of upbringing... were free to choose their own paths.... even if it led to destruction.... the price of free will....

I could raise my child teaching him to be a violent, homophobic, racist and the child then turning out to be a hippy universal human rights activist would be just as likely as it actually turning out as a violent homophobic racist?

Sure, but then once again, Adam and Ever were not raised...... but created as adults with knowledge. It is deception which led them to the wrong path....

Do you really believe that?

I've yet to see one child become exactly like their parents, have you????

Good job focussing on the 0.000001% and pretending as if it is the default.

What, those parents shouldnt be held responsible? Stand by your claim or admit it is spurious to begin with. But once again.... God did not raise Adam and Eve, they were created adults with knowledge.....

In general, humans are the product of their environment.
Someone raised in a loving home with a proper education and focus on moral values etc, will generally not turn out as a drug dealing torturing gang member that doesn't care about anything.

Unless deceived and turned down that path by another?????

Neglected kids however, who's parents are unemployed lazy drug users for example... They usually don't make much of themselves and will indeed have a lot more chances ending up as a drug dealing torturing gang member.

The exceptions don't make the rule.

Hmm, so all those that went along with Hitler were exceptions to the rule? An entire nation that gladly accepted him????

Except in the civilised world, where the death penalty has been abolished.
Yes, that indeed implies what it seems to imply...

However, "death penalties" are not your god's "ultimate solution". His "ultimate solution" rather seems to be utter and complete destruction of anything and everything, to the point of the most extreme genocides imaginable.

If that isn't a death penalty, you and I have different ideas of what death is.....

Like us dropping bombs on the Japanese? Like radical Muslims wishing they could exterminate every other group alive that don't believe as they do? Like Hitler tried to exterminate the Jews? Doesn't seem like we are too far above that ourselves, despite your protestations.... We have been killers since Cain slew Able....

 

[Erik Nelson]

No , such thing as cosmos exist , only heaven and earth .

There is no gap , no room for Gap . Lucifer prior to fall was covered in precious stones walking in Eden UNTILL he said to himself that he will be like most high God .

Excellent observation.

Church tradition holds that the fall of a third of the Angels was due to. God creating man in his image. Genesis 1:26. And decreeing that one day man would outrank Angels.

I guess the Angels felt that if a created human species could rise up in rank over higher species like themselves that perhaps. They could rise up in rank over. God himself???

In any event throughout Genesis, one. Everything God sees. God says he's GOOD. The first time the word EVIL is used is in reference to the tree of good and EVIL in the garden of Eden in Genesis, 2 and 3. The tree haunted by the Serpent.

So the fall was triggered by God, creating man in his own divine lightness and image. And installing him in Eden to one day out rank Angels. Somewhere after Genesis 1:26. And before the middle of Genesis 2.

 

[Erik Nelson]

We only care about what you can demonstrate with regard to what we observe and the models and theories we've built from those observations.

The Bible is essentially thousands of years of court room, Transcripts of eye witness testimonies reporting the observed occurrences of miraculous anomalous paranormal events on Earth.

Are modern western educated industrialized rich Democratic observers the only people qualified to observe?

 

[SkyWriting]

The Bible is essentially thousands of years of court room, Transcripts of eye witness testimonies reporting the observed occurrences of miraculous anomalous paranormal events on Earth.

Are modern western educated industrialized rich Democratic observers the only people qualified to observe?

There are no such paranormal events, though through prayer believers in Jesus see through an opened door, the hand of God in events that transpire before them.

Matthew 7:7
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

John 10:9
I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

John 10:7-9
So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

 

[Erik Nelson]

There are no such paranormal events, though through prayer believers in Jesus see through an opened door, the hand of God in events that transpire before them.

Matthew 7:7
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

John 10:9
I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

John 10:7-9
So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

The storm driving back the Red Sea or the fiery tornado, which whisked Elijah. skyward. were both. Extremely unusual extraordinary paranormal supernatural events?

 

[SkyWriting]

Only in church. Because if you're an honest person you go where the evidence leads no matter what the book says. Theistic evolutionists who publish in scientific journals don't quote bible versus in their papers as part of their research because it's not relevant.

Did you check in these PubMed journal papers?

Home - PMC - NCBI

Dimensional Structure of and Variation in Anthropomorphic Concepts of God

Theories of God: Explanatory coherence in religious cognition

The faces of God in America: Revealing religious diversity across people and politics
God put a thought into my mind: the charismatic Christian experience of receiving communications from God

The Love of God to Man

The Love of Man to God

Images of God and attitudes towards death in relation to spiritual well being: an exploratory side study of the EORTC QLQ-SWB32 validation study in palliative cancer patients

Modelling the effect of religion on human empathy based on an adaptive temporal–causal network model

Outsourcing punishment to God: beliefs in divine control reduce earthly punishment

 

[SkyWriting]

The storm driving back the Red Sea or the fiery tornado, which whisked Elijah. skyward. were both. Extremely unusual extraordinary paranormal supernatural events?

God is responsible for the spin of each electron in the Cosmos and people disappearing into tornadoes started back when tornadoes started. Everything gets sucked in.


-'Miracle baby' sucked up by tornado survives unhurt -
-One couple has quite the story to tell as they survived the Shawnee tornado after it sucked them out of their SUV as they were driving along 1-40.
It was all caught on video.



Study: Wind May Have Helped Moses Part Red Sea :