the Gap Theory and angels...

Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


The gap theory is about a 'gap' between v.1 + 2 and v.3 and the rest of the 6 days of creation. The wording in the original Hebrew has ('was without form') as 'became without form, and void'.
This allows for a previous earth which was destroyed. The main part of Genesis 1 is about the new creation and the new creation of mankind.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.

That's why it says replenish - mankind is to replenish the earth.
What then, was the earth before? In my humble opinion, it was populated by the reptilian world, and reptilian supernatural angels. This, for me, solves the various mysteries of the distant past - the fact that you find giant ammonites on the stony beach of Lym Regis (UK) - and why they found plesiosaurs and ichthiosaurs - and not seals, dolphins, rabbits, mixed up in the same strata.
As far as I know, mammals are not found in the same strata as the flood deposits where fish etc are found. Perhaps some mammals, but in the main, no.
Whether their were men on that first world - don't know, but the reptilian angel theory solves the mystery of who built the megalithic sites, such as the pyramids and the surviving walls in Peru and Bolivia - built upon with modern walls over the top of megalithic walls.

For me - I do not believe in Noah's flood. This is because, Australia has marsupials, and has always had marsupials - many more types than now, but the flooding did not kill off all the marsupials, obviously, however, the fossil record shows that Australia once had marsupials as well as some dinosaurs.
And if Noah took on-board two foxes and two rabbits, then on disembarking the ark, the foxes would have eaten the rabbits, and the gerbils and hamsters, and then themselves starve - hence extinction of everything, when you also consider that there were no edible plants on the earth after that supposed flood.

The lifeforms that are on the earth now, such as the New World birds, differing from Old World, and Australian birds, is due to the fact that they were created in situ - they were always there, at least as far as the new six day creation in Genesis, after the total destruction of the old world - by flooding/tsunamis.
The dinosaurs died off, I think, due to flooding and climate change - being cold blooded, they couldn't cope with the new conditions. Most of the destruction was due to global floods, possibly caused by tsunamis - the YECs have that correct, but they go with Noah's flood from about 4000 years ago. Some dinosaurs have been dated to 19 and 16,000 years ago.
Coal was formed when mega-tsunamis covered over forests, burying herds of hadrosaurs complete, fossilizing.
New life would have been created, new orders of life, mainly mammals, birds, whales, dolphins - but as darkness was upon the face of the deep, then whatever powered the light in the old world was switched off, and so nothing would have survived, if that darkness was covering a totally flooded world. All life, including the old forms of crocodiles, snakes, spiders etc. were created again, based on the existing templates of kinds.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Moving creature that has life, is here moving creatures and birds, but there is a distinction made between these kinds and the beast of the earth...

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The waters bring worth the living creature according the kinds.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

here, in verse 24, the distinction is made - and beast of the earth, is according to his kind - beast of the earth's kind.. what is beast of the earth? - it is not a living creature, in the biblical scenario. It is different to beast of the field, cattle and creeping thing - insects.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creeps upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

the beast of the earth is, imo. reptiles, spiders, snakes, flies - remnant kinds from the old world of reptilians. Spiders and flies are imo. of the old order of life - reptilian life, or life derived from supernatural.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.

man is made based on the template of mankind - based on the angels of heaven - that is why it says that Elohim made man in his image, but the image is after a man has been saved through Christ - only then is man made in the image of Elohim. In verse 26, mankind is given dominion over the various kinds - except for beast of the earth kind - again, reptiles, spiders, flies, snakes. Beast of the earth is not a creeping thing. But beast of the earth is also derived from the earth.
In Genesis 3, the devil is cursed above the beast of the field - which implies that the beast of the field was also cursed.


27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I believe it is better to trust YHVH and believe every word that proceeds from His mouth (man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word ....) ...
than
to even entertain any of man's theories.
Never doubt YHVH'S WORD
is safer and better and right as HE Says,
than doubting the flood and bringing in theories instead.
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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I believe it is better to trust YHVH and believe every word that proceeds from His mouth (man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word ....) ...
than
to even entertain any of man's theories.
Never doubt YHVH'S WORD
is safer and better and right as HE Says,
than doubting the flood and bringing in theories instead.

I would say that most theistic evolutionists would doubt Noah's flood? They are allowed on the forum? I am not really allowed on the eschatology forum, anymore, as some of my beliefs differ from what is required on the forum. I think that I am safe here about not accepting Noah's flood? Derived from a Babylonian legend. Even though Jesus mentions the flood of Noah - I have thought long and hard about it, and it does not make any sense to me.
For me, it is just impossible.
The YECs presentation of evidence is good - the world was destroyed in a deluge - but when? According to YECs - about 4000 years ago. Coal does not get a carbon date, so must be of great age, as the half life of carbon is about 40,000 years. If the deluge happened some 50,000 years ago, then that would make sense.
Some of the dinosaurs were created within the 6 days of Genesis, but they were ill equipped to cope with the new earth conditions and died out. Behemoth seems to be one of this kind, which lived in the recent thousands of years.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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God has hidden many things between the lines of his word, but a picture does emerge that is far more revealing than the literal word.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
 
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mark kennedy

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The earth wasn't originally created to be inhabited, later during creation week God reformed the surface of the earth and created life. There is no indication that the earth was previously inhabited and when the angels were originally created remains a mystery. All we know is that they were created some time prior to creation week. The bulk of the OP is almost completely speculative and whimsical.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I would say that most theistic evolutionists would doubt Noah's flood? They are allowed on the forum? I am not really allowed on the eschatology forum, anymore, as some of my beliefs differ from what is required on the forum. I think that I am safe here about not accepting Noah's flood? Derived from a Babylonian legend. Even though Jesus mentions the flood of Noah - I have thought long and hard about it, and it does not make any sense to me.
For me, it is just impossible.
The YECs presentation of evidence is good - the world was destroyed in a deluge - but when? According to YECs - about 4000 years ago. Coal does not get a carbon date, so must be of great age, as the half life of carbon is about 40,000 years. If the deluge happened some 50,000 years ago, then that would make sense.
Some of the dinosaurs were created within the 6 days of Genesis, but they were ill equipped to cope with the new earth conditions and died out. Behemoth seems to be one of this kind, which lived in the recent thousands of years.

The geologic record reveals a series of "ruin/restoration" events over billions of years. Coal and oil were formed during these periods. The flood was a recent and very short lived event that changed very little of the earth's surface, and left little positive evidence.
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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The geologic record reveals a series of "ruin/restoration" events over billions of years. Coal and oil were formed during these periods. The flood was a recent and very short lived event that changed very little of the earth's surface, and left little positive evidence.

A local flood? Me thinks that is possible, if it occurred around Iraq region - flood deposits were discovered at Ur in Iraq. I don't go along with the standard evolution type geology of billions of years, I am a YEC. Maybe millions of years before the six days. I do not accept uniformitarianism or Darwinism.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The earth wasn't originally created to be inhabited, later during creation week God reformed the surface of the earth and created life. There is no indication that the earth was previously inhabited and when the angels were originally created remains a mystery. All we know is that they were created some time prior to creation week. The bulk of the OP is almost completely speculative and whimsical.

Several scriptures strongly suggest that the earth was created specifically to be the dwelling place of the angels. It is also likely that the angels were created before the creation of the material universe itself.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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A local flood? Me thinks that is possible, if it occurred around Iraq region - flood deposits were discovered at Ur in Iraq. I don't go along with the standard evolution type geology of billions of years, I am a YEC. Maybe millions of years before the six days. I do not accept uniformitarianism or Darwinism.

The flood narrative reveals a global flood not a local one. Also the story is written as a literal event, not a metaphor.
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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Several scriptures strongly suggest that the earth was created specifically to be the dwelling place of the angels. It is also likely that the angels were created before the material creation of the universe.
Can you show these scriptures? There is a theory that angels were cast down to earth from heaven, after a fall or war in heaven. It would take wondrous ability to be able to create the megalithic walls in South America - people become 'ancient alien' believers to try and explain it - for me it is ancient angels theory - Cuzco, Sachsahuaman, Pumu Punku, Machu Pichu etc.
The old world was the world of the dinosaurs, even if some of that might be fake - pterodactyls instead of birds, reptiles instead of mammals, and feathered serpents from heaven. That's what I think anyway.
 
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Several scriptures strongly suggest that the earth was created specifically to be the dwelling place of the angels. It is also likely that the angels were created before the creation of the material universe itself.
The angels serve God directly, their dwelling place is heaven. The angels my well of been created before the original creation or maybe after, the Scriptures are silent on this question.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Can you show these scriptures? There is a theory that angels were cast down to earth from heaven, after a fall or war in heaven. It would take wondrous ability to be able to create the megalithic walls in South America - people become 'ancient alien' believers to try and explain it - for me it is ancient angels theory - Cuzco, Sachsahuaman, Pumu Punku, Machu Pichu etc.
The old world was the world of the dinosaurs, even if some of that might be fake - pterodactyls instead of birds, reptiles instead of mammals, and feathered serpents from heaven. That's what I think anyway.

Job 38:6-8 Suggests that the earth was prepared for the angels.

"Whereupon are the foundations (of the earth) thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Jude verse 6 also supports this.


"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."


"Estate" implies ownership or stewardship; "habitation" suggests 'dwelling place', the earth being that place. It is unlikely that they were 'cast' to the earth from another place in the universe after their rebellion and ascent to the throne of God, which was located "in the sides of the north" above the earth, the earth being the "footstool" of God.
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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Job 38:6-8 Suggests that the earth was prepared for the angels.

"Whereupon are the foundations (of the earth) thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
yep, I remember that. It might have been a pre-fall world and creation of angels, celebrating the creation. There must have been a fall, for the old world to have been made ruin.
There is a verse in Job, where it says 'the door of his face' - like a crab or spider. If there were templates of creation - even angels created according to kinds - insect, reptile - not human looking.
Perhaps the sons of God had access to both the earth and heaven originally, which would explain what they and Satan were doing in some sort of court, assembly, with God, in Job.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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yep, I remember that. It might have been a pre-fall world and creation of angels, celebrating the creation. There must have been a fall, for the old world to have been made ruin.
There is a verse in Job, where it says 'the door of his face' - like a crab or spider. If there were templates of creation - even angels created according to kinds - insect, reptile - not human looking.
Perhaps the sons of God had access to both the earth and heaven originally, which would explain what they and Satan were doing in some sort of court, assembly, with God, in Job.

The scriptures together with the fossil and geologic record suggests (to me) that the rebellion caused the destruction of the earth (which would certainly have been a paradise). The angels, which probably enjoyed beautiful physical bodies with which to enjoy this paradise, were now given the bodies of the monsters that roamed the earth for millions of years, befitting of the vile character that God had imputed to them. Perhaps they corrupted even those prehistoric environments, causing God to destroy them along with the surface of the earth in a series of ruin/restoration events that continued until God set his hand to "restore all things": his Kingdom that was severely damaged in the rebellion.
 
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Hiscosmicgoldfish3

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The scriptures together with the fossil and geologic record suggests (to me) that the rebellion caused the destruction of the earth (which would certainly have been a paradise). The angels, which probably enjoyed beautiful physical bodies with which to enjoy this paradise, were now given the bodies of the monsters that roamed the earth for millions of years, befitting of the vile character that God had imputed to them. Perhaps they corrupted even those prehistoric environments, causing God to destroy them along with the surface of the earth in a series of ruin/restoration events that continued until God set his hand to "restore all things": his Kingdom that was severely damaged in the rebellion.

Similar to what I was thinking - that the angels (sons of God) fell by corrupting the creation. There are some animals in the fossil record that look like aberrations to me - if that can be trusted and they are not just fake fossils. Animals with very long fingers which would have broken off - seeming mixtures of birds and reptiles, bird-like dinosaurs, with teeth - and rapacious looking - where Jurassic World gets its inspiration, with velociraptor, which apparently was smaller and feathered.
If the sons of God were immortal and supernatural - I am open to the idea that they were transformed into reptilian monsters.
I am more keen on the idea that there was one mega-tsunami event, and darkness - that the light of the world was a different light to the sun and moon as it is now - who knows.
But the sun is not created, according to Genesis until after there was light, which would give enough years of one 'day' for trees and vegetation to mature, before the creation of the animal kinds.
The fossil record has some 'modern' animals such as bats and birds. I don't think that anything could have survived prolonged darkness and flood covering the entire earth. The creation in the 6 days must have reproduced some of the old forms of fauna and flora - not so much that it would overwhelm the rest of creation and make it impossible for mankind to survive.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I would say that most theistic evolutionists would doubt Noah's flood? They are allowed on the forum?
People of all the faiths opposed to LIFE, opposed to JESUS,
are (as far as I know) allowed on this forum and
can post freely,
just like in Athens,
just like in any "open" market without restricitions,
as
long as no one who is not a follower of Jesus gets offended.
Those who are not followers of Jesus often get offended by Jesus and by the truth an by nothing at all , and can "report" any post or poster they are offended by,
so no matter what your beliefs, as long as you don't break the rules such as they are,
and as long as you don't offend anyone,
post away !
(Truth must be tried and tested and proven - it is not common)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The flood narrative reveals a global flood not a local one. Also the story is written as a literal event, not a metaphor.
Also, the earth was created generously supplied in every way for all men need to live a good life by YHVH for men to dwell in.
Perfectly in fact.
Not for angels.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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<staff Edit>
There's more , much more besides that that shows the so-called gap 'theory' is just a theory - no truth to it.... but no one will change their mind once they are set on it, so there's no use to pursuing it here, maybe not anywhere. IF they seek the truth, they will find it. IF not, they won't.
 
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the devil was not particularly nice in the garden of Eden - he woz already fallen, but allowed to tempt Eve.
HE was VERY NICE, a bright shining angel of light (so-called) nice !
Same today.
That is how he deceives MULTITUDES upon MULTITUDES ! right?
 
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