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Featured The full vials are not during the 42 months.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by vinsight4u, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  2. vinsight4u

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  3. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I think you don't have even a little understanding of who or what John is meaning by "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen"

    HOWEVER: if you know why "is fallen" is repeated, I want to know!

    You should know, the man of sin will enter the new temple in Jerusalem and tell the world that HE is the God of the Jews! That will be the abomination that Jesus spoke of, that will divide the week into two halves.

    But in doing that, claiming he is God, will be a big mistake: As soon as Satan is cast down, He will possess the man of sin and he will be come THE BEAST that rises out of the water.

    So where is he - where will he go? He will STAY IN JERUSALEM.

    Revelation 18:23 ...; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

    Revelation 13:3 ... and all the world wondered after the beast.

    These two Beasts will deceive the ENTIRE WORLD (except a few) and will do it from the City of Jerusalem. So God calls this city for that length of time, Mystery Babylon. But this time this city will be worse than the Babylon in Iraq EVER was - for this time the entire world will be deceived.

    Once they establish the image and mark, they will begin to murder all who refuse to bow and refuse to take the mark. It is this that CAUSES the days of GREAT TRIBULATION. And WHERE in Revelation doe these days of GREAT TRIBULATION take place? AFTER chapter 14 where God warns people NOT to take the mark. Surely you don't believe God would give this warning too late!

    Therefore the days of great tribulation (GT) will not start until after chapter 14, and the beheaded BEGIN to show up in heaven in chapter 15. So in chapter 16 the murders are at a fervor: Millions are being murdered around the world. And finally God will have enough and will pour out the vials of His wrath WHILE THE BEHEADINGS are taking place. In other words while Satan is venting his anger by creating millions of martrys, God pours out the vials of HIS wrath. OF COURSE God will warn his people to LEAVE Jerusalem before the Beast moves in and if they can, after.

    You see? It is impossible to separate Satan's wrath from God's wrath IN TIME, because they happen AT THE SAME TIME. Where are the Jews? They are being murdered - all who refuse the mark and refuse to bow. It is God's wrath and the Jews are STILL being punished. But after the vials have been poured out, the murders will cease: those carrying out the orders will be helpless to hunt anyone down. there will be total darkness and all the Beast's armies will be in pain.

    The truth then is that Israel will be punished right up to the end of the week. The days of GT will continue right up until God pours out the vials of His wrath. Then DAYS of darkness continue, but the armies of the Beast are no longer murdering people.

    Remember what CAUSES the days of GT: it is the forcing of people to bow to an image and to take the mark. You cannot separate the days of GT from these two events. Remember that the beheaded only begin to show up (think great tribulation) in chapter 15!



    I am sorry, but again you are simply WRONG. Do you imagine Daniel speaks of someone at the end and John somehow MISSED HIM?

    WHAT YOU ARE MISSING - or just not understanding: Dan. 7:

    8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
    11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake...
    20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other [horn] which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

    21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
    24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
    25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. [3 1/2 years]

    Dan. 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

    45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

    Notice he is given power for 3 1/2 years - which will equal 42 months.

    All this is speaking of the SAME MAN: " "the little horn." Notice that he is given the power to PREVAIL over the saints. Now, WHO in revelation is given that same power?

    Rev. 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    Rev. 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    This is the FIRST Beast - the one who will rise out of the waters. It is whom most people call "the Antichrist" Beast. HE gets the 42 months of authority, and it is HE who has authority to overcome the saints. His 42 months are the SAME EXACT period of time as the 3 1/2 years show in DAniel.

    Therefore, COUNT the Beasts: REvelation shows us there are TWO, ONE Beast and ONE false prophet. The "Little Horn" from Daniel is the very same Beast of Rev. 13. And this Antichrist Beast has a LOUD MOUTH to blaspheme God. He is not destroyed until Jesus returns.

    Once again I don't think your theories fit what is written.
     
  4. iamlamad

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    Don't Rearrange! The vials come in their time - AFTER all trumpets have sounded, and AFTER the Beast has set up his image and AFTER the mark has been enforced. In fact, God waits until the murdering of the Saints reaches fever pitch - and THEN begins pouring out the vials. I think they are all poured out in one hour.

    The truth then, the vials get poured who WHILE the days of GT are going on.

    You might not agree, but who gives the Beast his 42 months of authority? It is GOD. It is the ONLY reason the Beast gets his time - GOD allows it to punish Israel. Therefore, even during the 42 months of the Beast's authority, God is in control and His authority is FAR ABOVE all earthly authority. Therefore you cannot judge time by the verse that says God alone has authority.

    Isaiah 2
    11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.

    12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one
    that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

    So WHO is exalted during the Day of the Lord? It is HIS Day! Of course He is exalted. And WHERE in Revelation does HIS DAY begin? AT the 6th seal. Where does it end? John does not make that clear. But fore sure the Day of the Lord continues on through the entire 70th week. That means God is exalted during the same 42 months the Beast has his authority - WHY? Because it is GOD who will give him his 42 months.

    IN REVELATION, when does the days of GT cease? NOT in the seals! The 70tyh week has not even started then! The days of GT do not even start until AFTER the midpoint of the week which is chapter 11. Therefore, NO days of GT that Jesus spoke of UNTIL after the midpoint abomination.

    Remember what Jesus said:
    mat. 24:
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    Now, WHERE in Revelation do we see this fleeing into the mountains?

    Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    Therefore, the midpoint abomination MUST have taken place a second or two (reaction time) before 12:6.

    Now, WHEN Did Jesus say the days of GT would start? (look in verse 21 above) It is in verse 21 which is right after the abomination which is right before those in Judea flee.

    Therefore, the MIDPOINT of the week is in chapter 11. Therefore the days of GT are AFTER the midpoint of the week.

    And you want them to be in the seals. Inconceivable!

    Isaiah 2 -men hiding in the rocks - Day of the Lord - is fulfilled at the 6th seal. But the entire 70th week is FUTURE to that. The "tribulation" is FUTURE to that. John shows us that THE DAY begins at the 6th seal. That means NO wrath of God before that. That means NO seal before seal 6 is the wrath of God.

    YOU want "the tribulation" to be without the wrath of God. That is not what John shows us. You want "the tribulation" to be in the seals, but John puts it from Rev. 8 to Rev. 16.

    Always remember, ANY theory that must rearrange Revelation will be found in error.
     
  5. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  6. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  7. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  8. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  9. iamlamad

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    The little horn of Dan. 7 - also shown in Dan. 11 after verse 36 - and the Beast of Rev. 7 are all speaking of the same man.

    The vile person in Dan. 11, BEFORE verse 36, is speaking of Antiochus Epiphanes.
     
  10. iamlamad

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    Your theories are more mixed up than any writer on any thread I have ever read.

    Why do you find it SO DIFFICULT to picture a scroll rolled up and sealed with 7 seals. The scroll is NOT GOING to be opened until all 7 seals are opened first.

    Yet in your bogus theories, you insist that things written inside the book or scroll happen before the 7th seal is opened. That is simply IMPOSSIBLE. It is BOGUS. Your theory is in error. How many other ways can I say it?

    NOTHING from chapter 8 on, meaning chapters 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 - NOTHING in these chapters is going to happen until the 7th seal is opened SO THAT the book itself can be unrolled, read, and those events then take place.

    Therefore, any time you bring something from those chapters back before the 7th seal, we all know your theory is BOGUS. I can only guess, you are attempting to teach others your false theories. Is that wise?

    In chapter 11, when we read: "the nations were angry/Thy wrath is come"

    Do you imagine this is where God's wrath begins? What about the 6th seal that came before and the DAY of His wrath started? Are you trying to separate "wrath" from the "day of His wrath?" Forget it: they are speaking of the say thing.

    Perhaps you did not know, in "thy wrath is come" john uses Greek Aorist tense verbs. These verbs cannot tell time! There is no timing in them at all - whatsoever. In English we think "is come" means it just now came. But in Greek, all we know is, God is angry. He has wrath. But we don't know from this verse where it started. However, we know it started at the 6th seal.

    Then when John wrote that it was time to judge the dead: do you imagine this judging is done RIGHT THERE when the 7th trumpet is sounded? No! These are prophecies of what is SOON to come. For example, we know from other verses that the wicked dead are judged over a thousand years AFTER the righteous are judged.
     
  11. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    This is just as bogus - no, it is even worse - FAR FAR from truth. You must not even know what will cause the days of GT. It will be the image people are forced to bow down to - or die, and it will be the mark people are forced to receive - or die. These things are what will cause the days of GT. No one wants to lose their head. No one wants to be thirsty or hungry. But without the mark, no one can buy or sell.

    It is therefore the great pressure put upon people: die of thirst - or take the mark. Go hungry or take the mark. Bow down and take the mark, and live. Refuse and die. And there will be no place to hide. And it will most likely be in all nations of the world. So Jesus said there will never, ever, be a time like this.

    So WHERE in Revelation does John pinpoint this time? First, Jesus said it would be AFTER the midpoint of the week - so after chapter 11. Then in chapter 14 we see God warning people not to take the mark - so we KNOW it will be after God's warning. Therefore, the TRUTH IS: the days of great tribulation Jesus spoke of will come AFTER the warning in chapter 14.

    Then we see the beheaded begin to show up in chapter 15. Please tell us then, why in the world you would write such nonsense as "the great trib time is over before the 7th trumpet sounds."

    You write nonsense. The 7th trumpet marks the MIDPOINT. Ever Jesus told us the days of GT would be AFTER the midpoint.

    "time - no longer" is really a poor translation. There is a thousand years (TIME) after this. A better translation tells us there will be no longer and DELAY in time.

    Finally, the 5th seal martyrs are CHURCH AGE martyrs: the 70th week or "trib" does not start until the 7th seal is opened so that the BOOK can be opened to reveal "the trib."
     
  12. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  13. iamlamad

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    I think you don't read close enough. Did Jesus mention the abomination of desolation - quoting from Daniel? Did Jesus tell those in Judea to flee when they SEE this abomination?

    Did Daniel tell us what would divide the week into two equal halves?
    Did Paul tell us what would CAUSE that abomination?

    The answer is YES to all of those questions. In Revelation we can pinpoint the second they begin to flee: Rev. 12:6. We can know from the other scriptures that 12:6 is a second or two after the man of sin enters the temple and declares that he is God. The daily sacrifices must cease at that moment. The week is divided into two halves at that moment.

    While I was reading Daniel 9:27, when my eyes and my mind got to the word "midst" Jesus spoke to me and I heard these words: "you could find that exact midpoint 'clearly marked' in the book of Revelation." Then had added, "in fact, you could find the entire 70th week clearly marked." When He said that, suddenly I knew HOW I would find the entire 70th week: the "marker" God used for the midpoint would be the SAME MARKER used to start the week and end the week.

    God gave us five events that start at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, and in every one mentioned the 3 1/2 year period of time. Therefore, the exact midpoint MUST BE in chapters 11 through 13 where these five mentions of the last half of the week are found.

    Since I knew the exact midpoint was "clearly marked" I backed up from 12:6 when they fled and looked for a marker used 2 other times. In fact, the only main-line event of seals - trumpets - vials working back from 12:6 is the 7th trumpet. I realized, God used the 7 for a marker. I rushed to the 7th vial and read the last three words: "it is done." I knew at that moment I had found what Jesus sent me to find. I rushed to the 7th seal, and found 30 minutes of silence. I thought: what a great way for God to being the 7 years of judgment upon Israel and the world.

    Therefore, YES, Jesus did tell us where the midpoint was - just not in so many words.

    NOT Daniel 11, but rather Daniel 9:27 where Daniel TELLS us there will be one week.

    In Daniel 11, when the sanctuary is polluted, it is speaking of Antiochus Epiphanes, the the Beast of Rev. 13.

    The ships of Chittim is referring to ROME coming against Antiochus. Rome FORCES Antiochus to retreat. He did NOT want to go to war with Rome!

    Just so you know, when Daniel gets to 11:36 finally he is speaking of the Beast of Rev. 13.

    "we can see that means also the time of the little horn is over" Over? Where on earth did you get that idea? In Daniel, from verse 36 on, it is the Beast of Revelation or the Little Horn of Daniel 7 - same person. Turn the page to Daniel 12:1: that is right after the abomination and into the days Jesus spoke of as a time of great tribulation such as never was on the earth.

    You are missing something: there will be TWO times the signs in the sun and moon are seen: first as the sign of the coming DAY of the Lord - as seen in Rev. 6: it is BEFORE the 70th week begins and as a warning it is about to begin. But this time the moon is SEEN and it is red.

    In Revelation then, the week begins at the 7th seal, and the trumpets take up the first half of the week, the 7th trumpet marking the midpoint. Then the vials come in the last half of the week, and finally at the 7th vial, the week is ended. Then Jesus said AFTER that, signs in the sun and moon, but this time they are invisible: darkness upon the earth.

    You would be wise to throw all your theories into the trash and start over: this time start in Revelation and BELIEVE it - just as it is written.
     
  14. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  15. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  16. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  17. iamlamad

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    WRONG! It is the catching away, the "departing" of the church that must come first.

    Tyndale translation: 2 Thes. 2:3 Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a departynge fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion

     
  18. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    The DAY.............

    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

    "one day" (NKJV)
    "one day" occurs 26 times in 25 verses in the NKJV.

    Esther 3:13
    And the letters were sent by couriers into all the king's provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to annihilate all the Jews, both young and old, little children and women, in one day,
    on the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month of Adar, and to plunder their possessions.[fn]

    Isaiah 9:14
    Therefore the LORD will cut off head and tail from Israel,
    Palm branch and bulrush in one day.
    Isaiah 10:17
    So the Light of Israel will be for a fire,
    And His Holy One for a flame;
    It will burn and devour
    His thorns and his briers in one day.

    [Revelation 18:8]
    Isaiah 47:9
    But these two things shall come to you
    In a moment, in one day:
    The loss of children, and widowhood.
    They shall come upon you in their fullness
    Because of the multitude of your sorceries,
    For the great abundance of your enchantments.
    Zechariah 14:7
    It shall be one day
    Which is known to the LORD—Neither day nor night.
    But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.
    Ezekiel 39:7
    “So I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not let them profane My holy name anymore.
    Then the nations shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
    Isaiah 10:17
    So the Light of Israel will be for a fire,
    And His Holy One for a flame;
    It will burn and devour
    His thorns and his briers in one day.

    Luke 1:35
    And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you;
    therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.


    Revelation 18:8
    “Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine.
    And she will be utterly burned with fire,
    for strong is the Lord God who judges[fn] her.


    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


    The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.....
    the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance...............

    Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building ; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire. The tumult and disorder which ensued upon this event, it is impossible (says Josephus) for language to describe.
    The Roman legions made the most horrid outcries ; the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints............



    .
     
  19. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  20. iamlamad

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    Apostasia was translated several times before the KJV as the departing.

    Take careful note: in verse 3b the man of sin IS revealed, meaning that in verse 3a the one restraining must be "taken out of the way." This fits perfectly with the church being taken out of the way by way of the rapture. In any cause, whatever meaning you put to "apostasia" it MUST BE the one restraining being taken out of the way.

    Does a "falling away" fit the restrainer?
     
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