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Jesus is YHWH

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1)the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life is Christ(Romans 6:23)
2)salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15)

3)salvation is received by faith apart from any works (Ephesians 2:8–9).
4)salvation is found in the gospel message and is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes(Romans 1:16).
5)salvation comes when a person hears the gospel and confesses Jesus is Lord,’ and believes in their heart that God raised Him from the dead and they will be saved” (Romans 10:9).

In the apostle Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, he lays out the content of the gospel message, “Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1–4).

In this passage, we see three essential elements of the gospel message.

First, the phrase “died for our sins” is very important. As Romans 3:23 tells us, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” The reality of sin needs to be acknowledged by all who approach the throne of God for salvation. A sinner must acknowledge the hopelessness of his guilt before God in order for forgiveness to take place, and he must understand that the “wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). Without this foundational truth, no gospel presentation is complete.

Second, the person and work of Christ are indispensable components of the gospel. Jesus is both God (Colossians 2:9) and man (John 1:14). Jesus lived the sinless life that we could never live (1 Peter 2:22), and, because of that, He is the only one who could die a substitutionary death for the sinner. Sin against an infinite God requires an infinite sacrifice. Therefore, either man, who is finite, must pay the penalty for an infinite length of time in hell, or the infinite Christ must pay for it once. Jesus went to the cross to pay the debt we owe to God for our sin, and those who are covered by His sacrifice will inherit the kingdom of God as sons of the king (John 1:12).

Third, the Resurrection of Christ is an essential element of the gospel. The resurrection is the proof of the power of God. Only He who created life can resurrect it after death, only He can reverse the hideousness that is death itself, and only He can remove the sting that is death and the victory that is the grave’s (1 Corinthians 15:54–55). Further, unlike all other religions, Christianity alone possesses a Founder who transcends death and who promises that His followers will do the same. All other religions were founded by men and prophets whose end was the grave.

Finally, Christ offers His salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15; 6:23), that can only be received by faith, apart from any works or merit on our part (Ephesians 2:8–9). As the apostle Paul tells us, the gospel is “the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile” (Romans 1:16). The same inspired author tells us, “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9).

These, then, are the essential elements of the gospel: the sin of all men, the death of Christ on the cross to pay for those sins, the resurrection of Christ to provide life everlasting for those who follow Him, and the offer of the free gift of salvation to all.got?


hope this helps !!!
 

Dave L

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1)the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life is Christ(Romans 6:23)
2)salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15)

3)salvation is received by faith apart from any works (Ephesians 2:8–9).
4)salvation is found in the gospel message and is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes(Romans 1:16).
5)salvation comes when a person hears the gospel and confesses Jesus is Lord,’ and believes in their heart that God raised Him from the dead and they will be saved” (Romans 10:9).

In the apostle Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, he lays out the content of the gospel message, “Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1–4).


In this passage, we see three essential elements of the gospel message.
First, the phrase “died for our sins” is very important. As Romans 3:23 tells us, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” The reality of sin needs to be acknowledged by all who approach the throne of God for salvation. A sinner must acknowledge the hopelessness of his guilt before God in order for forgiveness to take place, and he must understand that the “wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). Without this foundational truth, no gospel presentation is complete.


Second, the person and work of Christ are indispensable components of the gospel. Jesus is both God (Colossians 2:9) and man (John 1:14). Jesus lived the sinless life that we could never live (1 Peter 2:22), and, because of that, He is the only one who could die a substitutionary death for the sinner. Sin against an infinite God requires an infinite sacrifice. Therefore, either man, who is finite, must pay the penalty for an infinite length of time in hell, or the infinite Christ must pay for it once. Jesus went to the cross to pay the debt we owe to God for our sin, and those who are covered by His sacrifice will inherit the kingdom of God as sons of the king (John 1:12).


Third, the Resurrection of Christ is an essential element of the gospel. The resurrection is the proof of the power of God. Only He who created life can resurrect it after death, only He can reverse the hideousness that is death itself, and only He can remove the sting that is death and the victory that is the grave’s (1 Corinthians 15:54–55). Further, unlike all other religions, Christianity alone possesses a Founder who transcends death and who promises that His followers will do the same. All other religions were founded by men and prophets whose end was the grave.


Finally, Christ offers His salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15; 6:23), that can only be received by faith, apart from any works or merit on our part (Ephesians 2:8–9). As the apostle Paul tells us, the gospel is “the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile” (Romans 1:16). The same inspired author tells us, “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9).


These, then, are the essential elements of the gospel: the sin of all men, the death of Christ on the cross to pay for those sins, the resurrection of Christ to provide life everlasting for those who follow Him, and the offer of the free gift of salvation to all.got?

hope this helps !!!
Great post. But I believe God must save us before the will becomes involved. When we cannot will anything good by God's standards. Then, after the new birth, Our will reacts by choosing righteousness over sin with few exceptions.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Great post. But I believe God must save us before the will becomes involved. When we cannot will anything good by God's standards. Then, after the new birth, Our will reacts by choosing righteousness over sin with few exceptions.
Yes regeneration and God giving us the new heart precedes faith since we were dead in our trespasses and sins but God made us alive as per Ephesians 2.
 
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Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ.

Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

hope this helps !!!

All that happens when you get saved.

Due to our disagreement on this issue, I did some research. I`m sure it`s out there somewhere but I couldn`t find anything that supports your opinion on this among professional level commentaries.
 
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As a Lutheran I can't really speak much beyond how we have spoken historically on this matter. Where regeneration is the Donatio Fidei, the giving of faith. So we can't speak of regeneration preceding faith, because regeneration is the giving of faith; and certainly the reversal cannot be accepted. Faith does not result in regeneration, as though faith were something we bring to the table which God responds to by regenerating us.

Faith neither precedes, nor occurs after; but rather is the work and gift of God regenerating us. Which He accomplishes according to His own Means, namely Word and Sacrament. Ergo the Apostle says in Romans 10:17 "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ". It is the word which creates faith, as faith is God's gift (Ephesians 2:8).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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RickReads

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As a Lutheran I can't really speak much beyond how we have spoken historically on this matter. Where regeneration is the Donatio Fidei, the giving of faith. So we can't speak of regeneration preceding faith, because regeneration is the giving of faith; and certainly the reversal cannot be accepted. Faith does not result in regeneration, as though faith were something we bring to the table which God responds to by regenerating us.

Faith neither precedes, nor occurs after; but rather is the work and gift of God regenerating us. Which He accomplishes according to His own Means, namely Word and Sacrament. Ergo the Apostle says in Romans 10:17 "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ". It is the word which creates faith, as faith is God's gift (Ephesians 2:8).

-CryptoLutheran

I`ve found your Lutheran theology interesting. Often spot on.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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All that happens when you get saved.

Due to our disagreement on this issue, I did some research. I`m sure it`s out there somewhere but I couldn`t find anything that supports your opinion on this among professional level commentaries.
Here is Gill below

Hath quickened us together with Christ: which may be understood either of regeneration, when a soul that is dead in a moral or spiritual sense, is quickened and made alive; a principle of life is infused, and acts of life are put forth; such have their spiritual senses, and these in exercise; they can feel the load and weight of sin; see their lost state and condition, the odiousness of sin, and the beauty of a Saviour, the insufficiency of their own righteousness, and the fulness and suitableness of Christ's; breathe after divine and spiritual things; speak in prayer to God, and the language of Canaan to fellow Christians; move towards Christ, exercise grace on him, act for him, and walk on in him: and this life they have not from themselves, for previous to it they are dead, and in this quickening work are entirely passive; nor can regenerate persons quicken themselves, when in dead and lifeless frames, and much less unregenerate sinners; but this is God's act, the act of God the Father; though not exclusive of the Son, who quickens whom he will; nor of the Spirit, who is the Spirit of life from Christ; and it is an instance of the exceeding greatness, both of his power and love; and this may be said to be done with Christ, because he is the procuring and meritorious cause of it, by his death and resurrection from the dead;
 
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RickReads

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Here is Gill below

Hath quickened us together with Christ: which may be understood either of regeneration, when a soul that is dead in a moral or spiritual sense, is quickened and made alive; a principle of life is infused, and acts of life are put forth; such have their spiritual senses, and these in exercise; they can feel the load and weight of sin; see their lost state and condition, the odiousness of sin, and the beauty of a Saviour, the insufficiency of their own righteousness, and the fulness and suitableness of Christ's; breathe after divine and spiritual things; speak in prayer to God, and the language of Canaan to fellow Christians; move towards Christ, exercise grace on him, act for him, and walk on in him: and this life they have not from themselves, for previous to it they are dead, and in this quickening work are entirely passive; nor can regenerate persons quicken themselves, when in dead and lifeless frames, and much less unregenerate sinners; but this is God's act, the act of God the Father; though not exclusive of the Son, who quickens whom he will; nor of the Spirit, who is the Spirit of life from Christ; and it is an instance of the exceeding greatness, both of his power and love; and this may be said to be done with Christ, because he is the procuring and meritorious cause of it, by his death and resurrection from the dead;

John Gill does not suggest this happens pre-faith. Keep looking.

"Regeneration follows adoption"

Of Regeneration | Monergism
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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John Gill does not suggest this happens pre-faith. Keep looking.

"Regeneration follows adoption"

Of Regeneration | Monergism
or more strictly, and then it designs the first principle of grace infused into the soul;

but in regeneration, a principle of spiritual life is infused; that is a time of life when the Lord speaks life into them, and produces it in them

God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and he became a living soul, or a living person, and breathed again: so the Spirit of God breathes on dry bones, and they live, and breathe again.
 
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I don`t know what that means, you`ll have to clarify.
It came from you link of Gill meaning God first instills the new birth prior to man coming. He uses adam as an example. God breathed into adam and he came alive apart from him knowing.

or more strictly, and then it designs the first principle of grace infused into the soul;

but in regeneration, a principle of spiritual life is infused; that is a time of life when the Lord speaks life into them, and produces it in them

God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and he became a living soul, or a living person, and breathed again: so the Spirit of God breathes on dry bones, and they live, and breathe again.
 
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It came from you link of Gill meaning God first instills the new birth prior to man coming. He uses adam as an example. God breathed into adam and he came alive apart from him knowing.

or more strictly, and then it designs the first principle of grace infused into the soul;

but in regeneration, a principle of spiritual life is infused; that is a time of life when the Lord speaks life into them, and produces it in them

God breathed into Adam the breath of life, and he became a living soul, or a living person, and breathed again: so the Spirit of God breathes on dry bones, and they live, and breathe again.

But from the beginning, Gill states that regeneration follows our adoption. Means the new birth occurs after God adopts us into His family.
 
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"Regeneration may be considered either more largely, and then it includes with it effectual calling, conversion, and sanctification:"

And in that order.

John Gill doesn`t appear to believe it. I can`t invest the time to pinpoint but near as I can tell your view is held by a portion of modern Calvinist and is relatively modern.
 
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1)the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life is Christ(Romans 6:23)
2)salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15)

3)salvation is received by faith apart from any works (Ephesians 2:8–9).
4)salvation is found in the gospel message and is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes(Romans 1:16).
5)salvation comes when a person hears the gospel and confesses Jesus is Lord,’ and believes in their heart that God raised Him from the dead and they will be saved” (Romans 10:9).

In the apostle Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, he lays out the content of the gospel message, “Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1–4).


In this passage, we see three essential elements of the gospel message.
First, the phrase “died for our sins” is very important. As Romans 3:23 tells us, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” The reality of sin needs to be acknowledged by all who approach the throne of God for salvation. A sinner must acknowledge the hopelessness of his guilt before God in order for forgiveness to take place, and he must understand that the “wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). Without this foundational truth, no gospel presentation is complete.


Second, the person and work of Christ are indispensable components of the gospel. Jesus is both God (Colossians 2:9) and man (John 1:14). Jesus lived the sinless life that we could never live (1 Peter 2:22), and, because of that, He is the only one who could die a substitutionary death for the sinner. Sin against an infinite God requires an infinite sacrifice. Therefore, either man, who is finite, must pay the penalty for an infinite length of time in hell, or the infinite Christ must pay for it once. Jesus went to the cross to pay the debt we owe to God for our sin, and those who are covered by His sacrifice will inherit the kingdom of God as sons of the king (John 1:12).


Third, the Resurrection of Christ is an essential element of the gospel. The resurrection is the proof of the power of God. Only He who created life can resurrect it after death, only He can reverse the hideousness that is death itself, and only He can remove the sting that is death and the victory that is the grave’s (1 Corinthians 15:54–55). Further, unlike all other religions, Christianity alone possesses a Founder who transcends death and who promises that His followers will do the same. All other religions were founded by men and prophets whose end was the grave.


Finally, Christ offers His salvation as a free gift (Romans 5:15; 6:23), that can only be received by faith, apart from any works or merit on our part (Ephesians 2:8–9). As the apostle Paul tells us, the gospel is “the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile” (Romans 1:16). The same inspired author tells us, “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9).


These, then, are the essential elements of the gospel: the sin of all men, the death of Christ on the cross to pay for those sins, the resurrection of Christ to provide life everlasting for those who follow Him, and the offer of the free gift of salvation to all.got?

hope this helps !!!

If I were an expert in a trade and I were to train someone how to practice that trade as a free gift to them, then my teaching itself would be the content of my free gift and that person participating in by training would not be doing any works to earn my gift, but their participation in receiving my gift would nevertheless still involve doing works, and this is the same sort of free gift as our salvation. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself the content of His free gift of salvation and participating in receiving that that training does nothing to earn it, but nevertheless still involves doing works. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law looks like. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, it says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believing everything that Jesus accomplished in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, then what that looks like is becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20).

In John 6:40, those who believe in Jesus will have eternal life, in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, in Romans 6:24, the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord, and in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to enter eternal life, then obey the commandments, so obedience to the commandments is what it looks like to believe in Jesus, to know him, and to receive the free gift.

In Ephesians 2:8-10, it is speaking being saved apart from works done to earn our salvation, but doing good works in nevertheless still part of our salvation because that is what we have been made new creations in Christ to do. Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to is an integral part of the Gospel message. Likewise, in Acts 2:38 the Mosaic Law is how Peter's audience knew what sin is when he told them to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul's Gospel message involved bringing Gentiles to obedience in word and in deed. In Romans 10:16, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, and 1 Peter 4:17, it speaks against those who don't obey the Gospel, so the Gospel absolutely does involve doing works. In Romans 10:4-9, Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith, and Paul referenced Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to this faith saying that God's law is not too difficult to obey, that obedience to it brings life, and in regard to what it means to submit to Jesus as Lord, so that should be factored in to how we understand what it means to hear the the Gospel and to confess Jesus is Lord.
 
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If I were an expert in a trade and I were to train someone how to practice that trade as a free gift to them, then my teaching itself would be the content of my free gift and that person participating in by training would not be doing any works to earn my gift, but their participation in receiving my gift would nevertheless still involve doing works, and this is the same sort of free gift as our salvation. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct how to do, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself the content of His free gift of salvation and participating in receiving that that training does nothing to earn it, but nevertheless still involves doing works. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law looks like. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, it says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believing everything that Jesus accomplished in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, then what that looks like is becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20).

In John 6:40, those who believe in Jesus will have eternal life, in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, in Romans 6:24, the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord, and in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to enter eternal life, then obey the commandments, so obedience to the commandments is what it looks like to believe in Jesus, to know him, and to receive the free gift.

In Ephesians 2:8-10, it is speaking being saved apart from works done to earn our salvation, but doing good works in nevertheless still part of our salvation because that is what we have been made new creations in Christ to do. Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to is an integral part of the Gospel message. Likewise, in Acts 2:38 the Mosaic Law is how Peter's audience knew what sin is when he told them to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul's Gospel message involved bringing Gentiles to obedience in word and in deed. In Romans 10:16, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, and 1 Peter 4:17, it speaks against those who don't obey the Gospel, so the Gospel absolutely does involve doing works. In Romans 10:4-9, Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith, and Paul referenced Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to this faith saying that God's law is not too difficult to obey, that obedience to it brings life, and in regard to what it means to submit to Jesus as Lord, so that should be factored in to how we understand what it means to hear the the Gospel and to confess Jesus is Lord.
Salvation is not obtained by any works period. Salvation is obtained by grace through faith. That faith which brings forth salvation results in good works. Works are the by product of salvation, the result as per Ephesians 2 below.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

A faith that is real produces good works as per James who declares faith without works is dead. James 2:17. A good tree bears good fruit.

hope this helps !!!
 
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I must first die if I wish to be saved. God's salvation is a gift because the deepest nature of reality is that of love and wisdom, of goodness and truth.

The revelation of God corrects me from my blindness. as I wake up I can I abide more and more as the spirit I have always been and I can live near the Lord of spirits who I have always lived with.

Jesus knew who he was. That's why he didn't need salvation and that's why he is salvation. The gift God gives us is himself.
 
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The Bible speaks of spiritual reality. Its outward appearance is not the most fundamental thing it's speaking about. So people are dead and God makes them alive. Since you believed that salvation is a gift from God you don't have to be burdened in thinking that Christianity as a religion of the world is required in order for God to save people.

Most people will only go so far but the Bible is very plain about what it says. It's so plain that people can't accept the fullness of it. It is something outside of themselves even though it is the eternal life that we all need. If life Everlasting is to know Jesus Christ and God and you are part of the body of Christ, then why do you keep treating God like a Roman Emperor?

But that's okay because Christ became all things for all people so that he might draw all to himself. You were given a Measure of Faith and I was given a Measure of Faith. But my faith has grown up Beyond what most Christians can bear. Just like the Mystics said, God stretches them with his whole self and yet we have this gift in Earthly vessels. My mustard tree has been nourished very well by the ground that I am. God was pleased to water me and keep me.
 
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