The Fourth Kingdom Here To The End

[Francis Drake]

It would be interesting to research who came up with that poster, and his/her religious beliefs.

I am counting 11 stars, the ten kings plus the little horn. The EU flag has 12 stars on it. Perhaps the 12th star is hidden behind the tower peak. Why anyone in their right mind would choose to make that their poster, is beyond me.

It's not just that poster, but the whole architecture and artwork around the EU parliaments are filled with apocalyptic meaning. Behind the facade of the mundane, the ruling principalities and powers of Babylon are boasting. If Christians want to understand prophecy, they need to get a grip of what's going on under their noses!

Statues of Woman Riding the Beast, outside European Parliament

EU Postage stamps etc

2 Euro coinage.

5 Euro coin

Although it's a little difficult to see, this also shows the woman and beast.

EU publications.

European Parliament building Strasbourg, designed to represent the unfinished Tower of Babel.

And for those who refuse to accept the link between the EU parliament and Babel, this publication spells it out.

The EU, and Europe as a continent, all seem to have an obsession with prophetic images!

 

[Douggg]

Doug you are adding things that are just not there. There are three entities in Daniel 11 verse 40 on The King of the North the King of South and the Kings of the East. You are adding things to make it fit your preconceived notion of the End Times. You have Gog in here you have a King of the West. They are not in the text because they are not there. You need to trust Scripture 100%.

There is not a direct statement in the text that the willful king in verse 36 is the King of the North, nor King of the South, nor King(s) of the East (which is implied because there is no King(s) of the East in the text) - we are getting that from Revelation 16:12).

I do not have the willful king in verse 36 as Gog. The Gog/Magog event is not in Daniel 11. The willful king in verse 36 is the beast person of Revelation 13. On my chart below.

The focal arch villain of the end times is the person in the advancing roles of being the little horn > prince who shall come> the Antichrist> the revealed man of sin > the beast. In Daniel 11:36, it picks up with the person being in the role of the beast. The willful king in verse 36 is the beast person of Revelation 13.


Regarding Gog/Magog (which is not in Daniel 11) ... it takes place right before the 7 years begin.

.

 

[Douggg]

. Behind the facade of the mundane, the ruling principalities and powers of Babylon are boasting.

Apparently.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

One more time, who is the willful king in verse36? The he who meets his end in verse 45?

The He is Verse 36 is not the same as the He in verse 45. I have heard all the arguments before and they do not hold up.

I assume in your mind because it says "the King" in verse 36 that means it is a new person not the same king in verse 35 and then it only says "he" through the remaining verses you take this to mean it is the same person.

What about Verse 13 it says the King of the North but it is still the same person as in verse 11 and 12. So clearly starting a verse of with the Term "The King" or "The King of the North" does not denote a new King. Verse 20 is Seceulus and Verse 21 is his Son doesn't miss a beat says nothing Like then "the King" or the "King of the North" So as we see the Lack of this term does not mean it is the same King. So as we see Neither the Term "the King" or "King of the North" means a New King and the Lack of such a term does not mean it is the same King.

We have to look to History. This Prophecy is about the King of the North Seleucid Kingdom and the King of the South Egypt which up to Verse 35 is The Seleucid Kingdom and their line of Kings and the Ptolemy Kingdom and their line of Kings. The defining points here is that in 30BC The King of the South was no more with the death of Cleopatra after her and Anthony's defeat at Alexandria by Augustus. The King of the North had already effectively been Roman Territory for almost 100 years. Even if you want to ignore marriages Pompey Took over and abolished the Dynasty in 69 BC and Rome became the King of the North

Rome so obliterated The King of the South that the written language was lost until the mid 1800 and the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. Everything up to verse 40 is history and ends with a description of the King of the North and its ever changing religious nature. Which is verse 36 to 39.

As to your point of A God his father's knew not. Christianity was a God his Father's new not. However this was not the Christian God it was Satan Disguised as an Angel of Light.

Let me ask you a question who is Kittim in verse 30:

 

[Douggg]

Hi Doug



The He is Verse 36 is not the same as the He in verse 45. I have heard all the arguments before and they do not hold up.

I assume in your mind because it says "the King" in verse 36 that means it is a new person not the same king in verse 35 and then it only says "he" through the remaining verses you take this to mean it is the same person.

What about Verse 13 it says the King of the North but it is still the same person as in verse 11 and 12. So clearly starting a verse of with the Term "The King" or "The King of the North" does not denote a new King. Verse 20 is Seceulus and Verse 21 is his Son doesn't miss a beat says nothing Like then "the King" or the "King of the North" So as we see the Lack of this term does not mean it is the same King. So as we see Neither the Term "the King" or "King of the North" means a New King and the Lack of such a term does not mean it is the same King.

We have to look to History. This Prophecy is about the King of the North Seleucid Kingdom and the King of the South Egypt which up to Verse 35 is The Seleucid Kingdom and their line of Kings and the Ptolemy Kingdom and their line of Kings. The defining points here is that in 30BC The King of the South was no more with the death of Cleopatra after her and Anthony's defeat at Alexandria by Augustus. The King of the North had already effectively been Roman Territory for almost 100 years. Even if you want to ignore marriages Pompey Took over and abolished the Dynasty in 69 BC and Rome became the King of the North

Rome so obliterated The King of the South that the written language was lost until the mid 1800 and the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. Everything up to verse 40 is history and ends with a description of the King of the North and its ever changing religious nature. Which is verse 36 to 39.

As to your point of A God his father's knew not. Christianity was a God his Father's new not. However this was not the Christian God it was Satan Disguised as an Angel of Light.

Let me ask you a question who is Kittim in verse 30:

I don't want to get into a discussion of the historical parts of Daniel 11, because it diverts from the time of the end prophecies in Daniel 11:36-45.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

There is not a direct statement in the text that the willful king in verse 36 is the King of the North, nor King of the South, nor King(s) of the East (which is implied because there is no King(s) of the East in the text) - we are getting that from Revelation 16:12).

Perhaps but you say it is the same person all the way from 36 to 45 and 40 Clearly names the Him as the King of the North.

[40] "At the time of the end the king of the south shall attack him; but the king of the north shall rush upon him like a whirlwind, with chariots and horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall come into countries and shall overflow and pass through.

We both believe there is a 2,000 year break in this story. You believe it happens at verse 36 because you believe that is the AC. I believe it happens at verse 40 Because Scripture Tells Me So. If verse 36 was the time of the end it would say it was just like verse 40 does. To say anything else is to add your own meaning to the text. Maybe you are right maybe you are not. I know I am right 100% for sure because I trusted Scripture and did not add meaning that was not written there.

I saw Russia in your map picture I assumed you were saying it was Gog and Magog. Gog and Magog is after the 1,000 years but that is a different thread

In Case you missed it in the post above Let me ask you a question who is Kittim in verse 30:

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Tranquil

Sorry just do not see it Daniel 11 is an amazing prophecy that accurately predicts events between the The Seleucid and Ptolemy Dynasty's for hundreds of years ending with Rome's Take over of Both.

Just can not agree it is all future. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Marilyn

Sorry I can not agree with your understanding here. Rome clearly takes over the Seleucid Empire and from that point on is the King of The North.

 

[Douggg]

I saw Russia in your map picture I assumed you were saying it was Gog and Magog.

Please look at my depiction again. It has russia "reloaded". Reloaded because 7 years earlier most of it's army will have been killed, and it takes another 7 years for the young men at the time to grow up and fill russia's army back to fighting strength.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello Doug

Please look at my depiction again. It has russia "reloaded". Reloaded because 7 years earlier most of it's army will have been killed, and it takes another 7 years for the young men at the time to grow up and fill russia's army back to fighting strength.

From what War seven years earlier?

Let me ask you a question who is Kittim in verse 30:?

 

[Douggg]

You believe it happens at verse 36 because you believe that is the AC. I believe it happens at verse 40 Because Scripture Tells Me So. If verse 36 was the time of the end it would say it was just like verse 40 does.

Verse 36, the willful king is no longer the Antichrist, but has become the beast. In an analogy, it is like saying someone is no longer Senator, but has become President - two completely different functional roles. Antichrist = king of Israel (coming in his own name). beast = dictator of the EU.

The person becomes the beast right before the middle of the 7 years. Please look at my chart below to the right. In blue, it shows him as the Antichrist. In red, it shows him as the beast. Verse 36 is when the red just begins.

verse 36 is just after he has just become the beast.

verse 40 is at the very end of the 7 years, 3 1/2 years later, thereabouts.


The "he" and "him" in verses 40-45 refer to the willful king. This can be ascertained by taking the first portion of verse 40....

"At the time of the end the king of the south shall attack him;

... there is no prior antecedent available but the willful king (the beast of verse 36).

In the next portion in the version you copied and pasted begins with "but". Differently, the kjv has "and". Which the difference between "but" and "and" impacts to the reader a different meaning of the verse.

"and" implies the person is attacked from the north, after first being attacked from the south.

and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

The "him" once again refers to the willful king in verse 36.

 

[Douggg]

Hello Doug

From what War seven years earlier?

Let me ask you a question who is Kittim in verse 30:?

The Gog/Magog attack upon Israel. Ezekiel 38 -39:16.

Gog/Magog, then the 7 years, then Armageddon in Ezekiel 39:17-20, then Jesus Himself speaking in the text in verses 21-29 having returned to this earth.

___________________________________________________________

Chittum appears to be Cypress from what I have read on the internet. Verse 30 is before the time of the end.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello Doug

As I said Gog and Magog is after the 1,000 years but that is a different thread. I want to keep on subject. Which Is Daniel 2 and 7 are very clear the fourth Empire Rules the world from it inception till Jesus return.

Nowhere and I repeat Nowhere does it say this King of the North is a man that then gets possessed by a Evil Spirit whether you believe it to Be Satan or some other Fallen Angel.

Also As I pointed out, but you obviously ignored, you can not use him or he two verses latter and say that proves it is the same Person entity whatever. That is not how the rest of the chapter deals with these two kings you have to look to history to see if it was already fulfilled verse 36 was fulfilled in the Emperors of Imperial Rome who put themselves above all Gods and demanded Everyone worship them.

Finally To say anything before verse 40 is the time of the end is to add meaning to what is written. It simply does not say that. Now if you want to say that that is your doctrine it is not what scripture says.

Chittum appears to be Cypress from what I have read on the internet. Verse 30 is before the time of the end.

Bible in Basic English
11:30 For those who go out from the west will come against him, and he will be in fear and will go back, full of wrath against the holy agreement; and he will do his pleasure: and he will go back and be united with those who have given up the holy agreement.

Well Kittim really means Western Mediterranean Coastland's According Josephus. In fact by the third Century BC Kttim and Rome were interchangeable in Judea. Most Translations do not translate the Hebrew word Chittum at all they just do a letter for letter translation, Because it is unclear what it total meaning was. In the Dead Sea Scrolls the word is interchangeable with Rome.

We know Cyprus was Bequeathed to Rome by the Ptolemy King in about 100 BC. But Rome had long used the southern port city of Kition for its fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean. If you Go looking you will see many of the Ancient provinces of Alexander were Bequeathed to Rome by one King or another. Including Greece itself. And what Rome did not inherit it married into or Just took over. Rome not only Absorbed the territory it saw itself As the Great Protector of Greek Knowledge and Culture. Rome in Many ways became an Extension of Greece and the Greek Empire. Including Emperor Worship which was not originally in Rome but was in the Seleucid Empire.

I agree it is History, SO who in History was it who Sent ships from Kittim that made Antioch IV Turn around and not Invade the King of the South instead turn on Judea?

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn

Sorry I can not agree with your understanding here. Rome clearly takes over the Seleucid Empire and from that point on is the King of The North.

In Joel it says - `But I will remove from you the northern army..` (Joel 2: 20)

Northern - Heb. `ts`phowniy,` same as `tsaphon,` meaning - hidden, ie. dark, used ONLY of the north as a quarter (gloomy and unknown).

The ONLY one there is RUSSIA.

 

[Marilyn C]

It's not just that poster, but the whole architecture and artwork around the EU parliaments are filled with apocalyptic meaning. Behind the facade of the mundane, the ruling principalities and powers of Babylon are boasting. If Christians want to understand prophecy, they need to get a grip of what's going on under their noses!

Statues of Woman Riding the Beast, outside European Parliament

EU Postage stamps etc

2 Euro coinage.

5 Euro coin

Although it's a little difficult to see, this also shows the woman and beast.

EU publications.

European Parliament building Strasbourg, designed to represent the unfinished Tower of Babel.

And for those who refuse to accept the link between the EU parliament and Babel, this publication spells it out.

The EU, and Europe as a continent, all seem to have an obsession with prophetic images!

Hi Francis Drake,

Interesting pictures. Some are to do with their mythology. However they all refer to the second office of the Global Government - Economic and Religious - the False prophet, (to the world).

Babylon represents the Economic, (buying and selling) and Religious offices (worship A/C) of the Global Government.

 

[Francis Drake]

Hi Francis Drake,

Interesting pictures. Some are to do with their mythology. However they all refer to the second office of the Global Government - Economic and Religious - the False prophet, (to the world).

Babylon represents the Economic, (buying and selling) and Religious offices (worship A/C) of the Global Government.

As far as I am concerned, it gives vivid evidence that the ruling spirit behind the whole global campaign is Babylon.
It should also be a wake up call for the sleeping church who get swept along with all the one world rhetoric.

 

[Marilyn C]

As far as I am concerned, it gives vivid evidence that the ruling spirit behind the whole global campaign is Babylon.
It should also be a wake up call for the sleeping church who get swept along with all the one world rhetoric.

I agree. And the manifestation of that spirit is in the Religious and Economic areas.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I agree it is History, SO who in History was it who Sent ships from Kittim that made Antioch IV Turn around and not Invade the King of the South instead turn on Judea?

The story behind this event in Daniel 11:29-31 has given us the famous "line in the sand" maxim. Antiochus IV had made one victorious assault on Egypt and returned to his own land with much Egyptian spoil in 169 BC (as in Daniel 11:28). But he had failed to take Alexandria. So he made another attempt by returning with a large army and fleet the following year. News reached Ptolemy in Egypt that Antiochus was on the way, and he hurriedly asked Rome for help in defending Egypt. Rome did so by sending the Roman ambassador, Popilius Laenas, who came with a Roman fleet and met Antiochus about four miles from Alexandria. Popilius handed Antiochus the Senate's decree demanding that he depart from Egypt, and Antiochus said he would think about it. That wasn't good enough for Popilius, so he drew a line in the sand around Antiochus and told him to make up his mind before he stepped out of the circle. A humiliated Antiochus decided he had better submit to Rome's demand, and he grudgingly left Egypt. To give vent to his offended vanity, he decided to take out his anger on Judea and Jerusalem, and consequently attacked them instead.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Drake

As far as I am concerned, it gives vivid evidence that the ruling spirit behind the whole global campaign is Babylon.
It should also be a wake up call for the sleeping church who get swept along with all the one world rhetoric.

It goes so much deeper than this Drake. What blows me away is the path of the harlot is so easy to follow and is spelled out in very plain words in Scripture. Who she is, where she started, where and when she moves, and to where her seat moves.

All that you need do is trust the plain words of God. The problem is people just do not like what it says and who it implicates. No one wants to look in the mirror or admit they are part of the problem.

"Now they are planning the Crime of the century.
Who are these men of lust, greed and glory?
Rip off the masks and let's see
But that's not right - oh no, what's the story?
Look! There's you and there's me"

The church isn't asleep it hasn't been the church for over 1700 years it is the harlot disguised as a Bride. And she says to herself. I am Queen. Bride of the King of Kings, my husband is not dead, he is risen, and I rule on Earth while he rules in Heaven. Of our Kingdom there will never be an end, Those who trust in me will never die, and I will never see sorrow.

Rv 18:..............Since in her heart she says, `A queen I sit, I am no widow, mourning I shall never see,'

Isa:47:..............who say in your heart, "I am, and there is no one besides me; I shall not sit as a widow or know the loss of children":

Yet all of this shall befall her in one day.

 

[Francis Drake]

It goes so much deeper than this Drake. What blows me away is the path of the harlot is so easy to follow and is spelled out in very plain words in Scripture. Who she is, where she started, where and when she moves, and to where her seat moves.

I agree with your sentiment, but there's a catch here......

All that you need do is trust the plain words of God. The problem is people just do not like what it says and who it implicates. No one wants to look in the mirror or admit they are part of the problem.

The plain words of God have been sent slightly off course by countless god fearing erudite preachers and teachers, who, because they have been deeply embedded in the system, themselves don't know better.

The church isn't asleep it hasn't been the church for over 1700 years it is the harlot disguised as a Bride. And she says to herself. I am Queen. Bride of the King of Kings, my husband is not dead, he is risen, and I rule on Earth while he rules in Heaven. Of our Kingdom there will never be an end, Those who trust in me will never die, and I will never see sorrow.

Although the above is obviously true, it needs qualifying.-
When Jesus walked in Judea, even if he showed contempt for them as people, he always treated the Priests and other religious hierarchy as if they had legitimacy in their office. Here is His judgement against them, Jn8v44You are of your father the devil, and you desire to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he might speak falsehood, he speaks from the own; for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The letters to the churches in Revelation show the deep apostacy already at work, yet they are still regarded as churches even when they are dead!.-
1And to the messenger of the church in Sardis write:
These things says the One having the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars.
I know your deeds, that you have the characterization that you are alive, and yet you are dead...........