The Fourth Kingdom Here To The End

[Marilyn C]

Here is the world today

The light green is because it is a mix of Muslim and Christian

Hi Just the Facts,

The King of the North is from the Seleucid dynasty, the region of ancient Assyria - Iraq, Syria & Jordan.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

It would be helpful if you summarize the sequence of end times events. I made a one post per person thread, where that can be done which you can link back to, or copy and paste into other threads. Please read the opening post #1 before participating. Link at the bottom of this post.

Done

 

[Douggg]

Hi Doug



Done

Okay I added you to the list in the opening post. Thanks for your participation.

 

[Douggg]

The next war which I agree is a prelude to Armageddon is a war of cultures Islam against Christianity it is in effect the final Crusade.

Hi Just The Facts,from your sequential of events list, it appears as though you view the battles in Daniel 11:40-44, as a war of Islam vs Christianity?

Bu who is the willful king in Daniel 11:36 ? And how does he fit into the Islam vs Christianity scenario?

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello Marylyn

Dan. 7. Lion with eagle`s wings, Bear, Leopard and the terrifying beastly kingdom.
These came up one at a time but are all operating at the same time, (in our day).

No they are all dead only the fourth Beast lives he smashed and broke the rest to pieces. However parts of their culture live on in the fourth Beast.

So the last kingdom of Dan. 2, the Divided kingdom, and the Great power of Dan. 7: 7, the terrifying one, are the same.

Well sort of you did not include The Legs of Iron which Was Imperial Rome. I would say more the Ten horns of the Terrible Beast and the Feet And Toes are the same and are here with us today. IE: The Constantinian Roman Christian World.

It is very clear who is doing the `terrifying` across the world. This great power has not as yet reached its full potential but is in the process of trampling down all opposition. It has two components, which fight each other. However when their Peace Negotiator arises, (soon) he will bring together 3 areas, and later the whole 10 group. (Dan. 7: 7)

I assume you are meaning Saudi Arabia Because of all the 911 Terrorists are from There and the Saudi Government funded them officials met them at the airport and help them in America and because in Saudi Schools they teach the children Christians are evil and all need to be killed.

Isa. 31: 8 clearly tells us his nationality.
Dan. 11: 40 tells us from where he shall arise, (in relation to Israel).
Rev. 17: 18 reveals the great city which will be the center of his power over the world.
Dan. 8: 23 - 25 describes his character & how he operates.

So you are saying he is Assyrian lets assume this is True So where did they go well they were conquered According to God Daniel 2:37-38 by his God's Hand in 612 BC By Nebuchadnezzar.

So lets assume they stayed in place cause trying to trace them is impossible Northern Iraq and South Eastern Tukey has been Kurdish for thousands of years. So you are Saying he will be Kurdish.

He is the King of the North so North of Israel The city of seven Hills.

So he is evil

Hi Just the Facts,

The King of the North is from the Seleucid dynasty, the region of ancient Assyria - Iraq, Syria & Jordan.

First You do Realize the Seleucid's Were Greeks not Assyrians so how could his Nationality be Assyrian when they were all Greeks.

Second the Seleucid Dynasty died off but Not before they Married the Julio line of Roman Royalty after the Roman war in 192 BC, thus Transferring the Title of King of the North to The Julio Line of Rome you Know Caesar Augustus Tiberius etc etc. In Fact when The Armenian King tried to Invade in 86BC The Julio Line of Rome declared war on the Armenians and in 69BC Pompey Marched in without firing a Shot as it were because they were in effect Family and officially absorbed what they effectively already had been ruling for over 100 years.

 

[Francis Drake]

Hello All Premills

I say Premills because this is a question for them, everyone in this forum knows how the Amills will answer this question. The Kingdom is spiritual in nature was set up during the fourth Kingdoms reign ie Rome 2,000 years ago end of story. But to Premills you must have an answer for this or .......Huston we have a problem!!!!!

So in Daniel 2: and Daniel 7: we are told that there are four Great Kingdoms that will dominate the world. Daniel 2 gives us a starting point ie: Babylon. Of the Fourth Kingdom Daniel 2 states.

[40] And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things; and like iron which crushes, it shall break and crush all these.[41] And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay.[42] And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. [43] As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. [44] And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever;

Ok So this thread is not about the toes and feet the kings of those days Just the point that this fourth Kingdom is on Earth and ruling when God sets up his Kingdom

Now Daniel 7: says this about the fourth Beast

[19] "Then I desired to know the truth concerning the fourth beast, which was different from all the rest, exceedingly terrible, with its teeth of iron and claws of bronze; and which devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet; [20] and concerning the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up and before which three of them fell, the horn which had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and which seemed greater than its fellows. [20] and concerning the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up and before which three of them fell, the horn which had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and which seemed greater than its fellows. [21] As I looked, this horn made war with the saints, and prevailed over them, [22] until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints received the kingdom.

So once again the Fourth Kingdom on Earth and ruling right up to the setting up of the Kingdom.

So this Fourth Kingdom starts and stays ruling the world (IN GOD'S EYES) from its start, to the reward of the Saints and the setting up of the Kingdom of God.

SO WHERE IS THIS KINGDOM TODAY? It has to be here, It has to have been here the whole time or Daniel's prophecy is a fraud. It has to have been here after the third Kingdom and been here the whole time or Daniel is just plain wrong.

So is God Wrong????????? or is the Kingdom here and has been here the Whole Time?

This being true and having to be True who is the fourth Kingdom? Who was it yesterday and 1,000 years ago and who is it today?

There's a lot of bits I'd like to add to the mix.
Here's Daniels interpretation of the dream.
Dan2v36“This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. 37You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; 38and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold.
Babylon was a city state, it's reach was quite extensive, but it still clearly didn't touch the inhabitants of China, of Britain, of Norway, of the Americas etc. Nevertheless God tells Nebuchadnezzar that his reign, the head of gold, extends to "Wherever the children of men dwell or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven................etc"
In other words, the reign of Babylon encompasses the whole earth, not just the middle east.

If we do not understand this principle, and its equal application to all the subsequent kingdoms, we won't understand the other associated prophecies.


39But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
Did Greece rule over the whole earth?

In God's eyes, all four kingdoms were world empires, even if at that stage of development, they hadn't reached that far. God was speaking prophetically to Nebuchadnezzar, but also to the ruling demonic powers behind Babylon which would continue to rule through each of the following regimes till Christ comes.

Then we fast forward to the Book of Revelation, and we see again that the final kingdom of the world is still called Babylon! So we have Babylon at the head, and Babylon at the feet, which tends to indicate that Babylon has always been hidden behind each and every empire.

That's why in Revelation it is referred to as MYSTERY BABYLON! Only those with the eyes of the Lord can see it.

Additionally, despite the historian's and theologian's claims, the final Babylonian empire of Rome) has never been destroyed. All it did was change its nature from military to ecclesiastical, and in doing so has deeply control all the relevant kings of the earth who invariably bow to it.

And again, the final Roman Babylon is just like Nebuchadnezzar's, a worldwide empire as can be seen in this map of the Ten Kingdoms of the world, as drawn up by globalists of The Club of Rome in 1974.

The final Roman Babylon empire is not about Europe, but the whole world.
This notion has been the driving force behind countless political gambits of the UN, climate change, Covid etc.

And when Jesus returns, he won't be just destroying the final version, but the whole structure all the way back to Nebuchadnezzar, for the simple reason that the demonic ruling hierarchy has existed continuously since then.

I could add here that although Daniel starts the vision at Nebuchadnezzar, it has in fact been in existence since the Tower of Babel itself. The EU doesn't even try to hide its Babylon roots.

But don't forget that the EU is just one of ten regions they have planned!

 

[Marilyn C]

Hello Marylyn

No they are all dead only the fourth Beast lives he smashed and broke the rest to pieces. However parts of their culture live on in the fourth Beast.

Well sort of you did not include The Legs of Iron which Was Imperial Rome. I would say more the Ten horns of the Terrible Beast and the Feet And Toes are the same and are here with us today. IE: The Constantinian Roman Christian World.

I assume you are meaning Saudi Arabia Because of all the 911 Terrorists are from There and the Saudi Government funded them officials met them at the airport and help them in America and because in Saudi Schools they teach the children Christians are evil and all need to be killed.

So you are saying he is Assyrian lets assume this is True So where did they go well they were conquered According to God Daniel 2:37-38 by his God's Hand in 612 BC By Nebuchadnezzar.

So lets assume they stayed in place cause trying to trace them is impossible Northern Iraq and South Eastern Tukey has been Kurdish for thousands of years. So you are Saying he will be Kurdish.

He is the King of the North so North of Israel The city of seven Hills.

So he is evil

First You do Realize the Seleucid's Were Greeks not Assyrians so how could his Nationality be Assyrian when they were all Greeks.

Second the Seleucid Dynasty died off but Not before they Married the Julio line of Roman Royalty after the Roman war in 192 BC, thus Transferring the Title of King of the North to The Julio Line of Rome you Know Caesar Augustus Tiberius etc etc. In Fact when The Armenian King tried to Invade in 86BC The Julio Line of Rome declared war on the Armenians and in 69BC Pompey Marched in without firing a Shot as it were because they were in effect Family and officially absorbed what they effectively already had been ruling for over 100 years.

Hi Just the Facts,

Thanks for all the detail. Here are my thoughts -

1. The 3 beastly kingdoms are very much `alive` just dominated by Islam.
`As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.` (Dan. 7: 12) And that is after Islam & the A/C etc is dealt with.

2. The `legs of iron` the Roman government, has been judged and is no more. The 10 toes/horns are the 10 emirs of Islam - Iraq, Syria, Jordan, (old Assyria) Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Omar, Yemen, Saudi Arabia. (3 & 7)
Note: the Roman Christian world is religious NOT political)

3. Assyrian is a nationality. People today have that but the region is now called - Iraq, Syria & Jordan. The Allies in WW1 divided up that region between Britain and France.
Yes there are Kurdish people but they were called the Medes.

4. The North of Israel is Iraq, & Syria, originally part of ancient Assyria. After Alexander died we know his kingdom was divided up into 2 great Empires - the Seleucid Dynasty, the king of the North, and the Ptolomaic Dynasty, the king of the South. The leaders and army were Greek but the peoples of those regions were -
North - Iraq, Syria & Jordan,
South - Egypt, & Libya.

Yes the Greek government changed but the people`s of those areas are Iraq, Syria & Jordan, & Egypt & Libya, as they are called today.

 

[Marilyn C]

But don't forget that the EU is just one of ten regions they have planned!

Hi FD,
`The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which shall be different from all other kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, trample it and break it in pieces. The 10 horns are `10 kings which shall arise from this kingdom.` (Dan. 7: 23 & 24)

The 10 kings are from the last beastly Federation, not the whole world, for that is subjugated under the 4th beast/kingdom.

The 10 kings are -

3 - Iraq, Syria & Jordan.
7 - Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Omar, Yemen, Saudi Arabia.

When Iran, (Persia) joins the Russian Federation and is dealt with by God on the mountains of Israel, then it is mainly the Sunni part of Islam that is predominant. They will work with the west for a while as the Peace negotiator establishes his power base. For after the Russian Federation, (plus Iran, Ethiopia & Libya) have been dealt with, there will be a power vacuum in the Middle East.

Thus those in the trib, will see the extraordinary rise of Islam, a terrifying power the likes of which has never been seen before. It is not like the other kingdoms. (Dan. 7: 24)

 

[Douggg]

I could add here that although Daniel starts the vision at Nebuchadnezzar, it has in fact been in existence since the Tower of Babel itself. The EU doesn't even try to hide its Babylon roots.

It would be interesting to research who came up with that poster, and his/her religious beliefs.

I am counting 11 stars, the ten kings plus the little horn. The EU flag has 12 stars on it. Perhaps the 12th star is hidden behind the tower peak. Why anyone in their right mind would choose to make that their poster, is beyond me.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

Hi Just The Facts,from your sequential of events list, it appears as though you view the battles in Daniel 11:40-44, as a war of Islam vs Christianity?

Bu who is the willful king in Daniel 11:36 ? And how does he fit into the Islam vs Christianity scenario?

I say Christianity and Muslim because that is how people see these two today. The King of the North and the King of the South.

Your question is not easily answered. What I have done is pasted from a paper I wrote 20 years ago. By verse 33 This prophecy has already moved over 260 years in time covering major events between the King of the North and King of the South.

The King of the North now changes to Rome as Pompeii takes Syria and turns it into a Roman Province 63BC. He also enters the Temple and the Holy of Holies and causes yet another desecration. He places Hyrcanus II s High Priest and Antipater an Arab (Father of Herod the Great) as Governor of Judea.. Over the next 130 yrs. Rome continues to use the Office of High Priest to seduce Priests to the office that will do as they ask by keeping the Roman insignia on the Temple Walls thus continuing the desolation and violating the covenant with God.

Next in the Time line is Jesus and his Disciples notice how these people fall by the flame. Being burnt is a common trait of martyred Christians. Beheading or crucifixion was the capital punishment of Rome no one was burnt but Christians.

33And those among the people who are wise shall make many understand, though they shall fall by sword and flame (only Christians Were burned), by captivity and plunder, for some days. 34When they fall, they shall receive a little help. ( the Holy Spirit The helper) And many shall join themselves to them with flattery; (Jesus First Warning on the Mount in Matt 24:False Christians say Yes Jesus is lord) 35and some of those who are wise shall fall, to refine and to cleanse them and to make them white, (only the Saints get the White Robes)until the time of the end, for it is yet for the time appointed.

Here is clearly depicted the Saints "to make them white" and the destruction of Jerusalem. We even have the tie in point to Jesus's prophecy of Matthew 24 for this must take place, but the end is not yet. "until the time of the end, for it is yet for the time appointed". This is a clear reference by Jesus through Gabriel to a common point in prophecy. The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple 70 AD is not the second coming of Jesus.

It should also be noted that as of 30BC Egypt had fallen to the Romans and the King of the South was no more. The prophecy shows this to be true as it explains that the King of the North will do as he Pleases until the time of wrath is complete. Daniel does not mention the King of the South again until the time of the end. Verse 36 goes on to describe the Roman Emperors from the time of Jesus on through to the final Emperor who will be defeated in Judea by Jesus. These verses clearly put an end to any argument that this is one man(ie: The Anti-Christ)

36"And the king shall do according to his will; he shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is determined shall be done. 37He shall give no heed to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women; he shall not give heed to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all.

If it is one man(ie the Anti Christ) than he must be schizophrenic first he worships himself above all Gods, but then instead of them he worships a God of Fortresses or Forces.

38He shall honour the god of fortresses instead of these a god whom his fathers did not know he shall honour with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts.

As we know this prophecy is moving through time at a fast pace, these seemingly confusing verses show the changing religious structure of Rome from 30AD to the second coming of Christ. First the Roman Emperors from Augustus to Constantine declare themselves to be Gods on Earth and demand that they alone are to be worshipped. They put themselves above the Gods of their Fathers(the Roman Gods Juno, Mars ect.) and pay no heed to the God of Women(the Nature or Wica Gods, Issis). Instead they demand that everyone worship them. All the martyrs of the Pagan Persecutions died for refusing to sacrifice, to and for the Emperor. In verse 38 we find ourselves in the period that Jesus describes in Matthew 24 and Revelation 6 the period between persecutions. With a major change to the Roman Religious system (King of the North) about to take place. We are told that the King of the North will change his God to the God of Fortresses, and that with the help of this new God he will attack and defeat the mightiest of Fortresses (ie: Rome). He will then distribute the land as a prize and greatly honour those who acknowledge his position and belief.

38He shall honour the god of fortresses instead of these a god whom his fathers did not know he shall honour with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts.39 He shall deal with the strongest fortresses by the help of a foreign god; those who acknowledge him he shall magnify with honour. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.

While most Christian Scholars just pass right over these verses. I find myself asking, who is this God of Fortresses. I wonder why everyone else doesn't ask the same question. It would seem a vital clue to the whole puzzle. Here we can find out more about the False religious system of the Anti-Christ's Kingdom. It is of the utmost importance to understand who this false God of the Anti-Christ's Kingdom is. While it is apparent that this is a new God to the King of the North, Daniel knows exactly who this false God is, as did all the Israelites, the tribe of Judea and the Tribe of Ephraim.

So Who is this God of Fortresses?

Allow me to introduce you to the God of Fortresses. This statue is from about1800BC from the city of Tyre. This is the False God mentioned in, Hosea, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, Daniel and Revelation. How do we know it is the God of Fortresses? Isaiah tells us who's false God will one day rule the world in Isaiah 23:, he tells us it will be the God of Tyre which is represented by this statue. This God Known as Baal(Father), The Goddess Astarte(Mother) and the half Father half Son God Melqart(Son). We also are told by the Prophets that the Final King of the North is the Anti Christ and he is destroyed by Jesus. Since we know for sure which God rules the Earth at the time of Jesus's arrival, the God of Tyre, as told by Isaiah and Revelation, we know that the Anti-Christ initially worships this final religious system, we know that the Anti-Christ's religion is the God of Tyre. There can be no doubt about the meaning of these verses.

Isaiah 23: talks of the sins of Tyre and how their God described as She, the Prostitute the symbol of a Religious System (women in Rev 17) will sell her trade (false Religion)to the whole Earth. Notice it say she shall commit Fornication this was written in 740BC Tyre fell in 673BC this will be very important to remember later when look at Revelation 17: and the five Kings who have fallen, latter in this study.

15: And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as a harlot 16: Take a harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. 17: And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.

In Revelation 17, we see this Harlot as she sits in total authority many years later. Just as Isaiah prophesied. Notice she now has committed fornication.

1Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who is seated upon many waters, 2with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and with the wine of whose fornication the dwellers on earth have become drunk."

It was believed that all three Gods where were part of a triune order a false Satanic Trinity. Their names in the Bible are Baal (Osiris or Nimrod the Father God, God of War and Armies, King of Heaven), Ashtoreth ( Astarte, Ishtar or Isis or Semiramis the Queen of Heaven Goddess of War), and her son Tamuz (Melqart, Son of Light, the Reincarnated Father-Son God, Rider of Clouds, God of Soldiers; see Ezekiel 8:14). Who was murdered on Friday and rose from the dead. The worship of this Trinity God was the Reason God sent ancient Israel into exile in 718BC and Judea in 587BC. It then goes on to explain just how this King will Honour his new God with Gold and Jewels and costly Gifts.

38He shall honour the god of fortresses instead of these a god whom his fathers did not know he shall honour with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39 He shall deal with the strongest fortress by the help of a foreign god; those who acknowledge him he shall magnify with honour. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a prize.


I have colour coded the prophecy with the history.

The change in the King of the North(Rome) comes with Constantine who converts to the Christian Faith in 312AD after having a vision where he claimed Jesus told him that if he attacked Rome with the help of the Christian God he would win the battle. Over the next few years he becomes sole Emperor and builds massive Churches Filled with Gold an Jewels. The Church declares him to be the greatest man since Christ. Some Orthodox Bishops State that he will rule in heaven with Jesus. He elevates the status of Bishops and declares the Bishops to be "God's on Earth" Removes them from the burden of paying Taxes. He makes the Bishops rulers over the Empire by agreeing to do what ever the majority of Bishops pass as Cannons. He gives away literally hundreds of thousand of acres of Imperial land to the Christian Church.

This new Religion of the Kings of the North (Roman Empire) will last until Christ second coming it will trample the Great Tribulation Saints and set up the Final abomination on the Temple Mount.

 

[Douggg]

The change in the King of the North(Rome) comes with Constantine who converts to the Christian Faith in 312AD after having a vision where he claimed Jesus told him that if he attacked Rome with the help of the Christian God he would win the battle.

Constantine, a convert to Christianity, cannot therefore be the willful king in verse 36, who claims to be greater than every god, and speaks against the God of gods. Christians worship God, instead, and speak reverently of God.

Rome is also west of Israel.

I think you have made a trio of fundamental errors.

(1) verse 36 is end times, not historic.

(2) The willful king in verse 36 is the king of the west, not north.

(3) The willful king, who believes himself to be the greatest of gods, acknowledges other gods, not as great as he, but one in particular serves his agenda - the god of fortresses, who by his help gets victories.

That particular so called god, god of fortresses - will likely be Satan.

I say Christianity and Muslim because that is how people see these two today. The King of the North and the King of the South.

That makes no sense if you are saying the willful king of verse 36 as Constantine, a Roman, west of Israel. And living 250 years before Mohamed.

Who is the "he" in this verse...?

45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

Constantine, a convert to Christianity, cannot therefore be the willful king in verse 36, who claims to be greater than every god, and speaks against the God of gods. Christians worship God, instead, and speak reverently of God.

You need to read again I never said Constantine was........ I said Augustus to Constantine all claimed to be a God and demanded that everyone worship them or be put to death. You could not buy or sell without proof you had offered sacrifice to Caesar and the Gods.

Quick recap but please read again

33-35 Jesus and the Saints

36-37 Imperial Rome Caesar must be worshiped

38-39 Change of Religion in Roman Society to God of Forces. Which is Baal.

There is no King of the West you are adding it. And quite frankly your separation of America and the rest of Christianity from Europe makes absolutely no sense.

This thread is about the Fact that the Fourth Beast Rules the world from its start till Jesus return There is no break there is no going away and coming back there is weakness and strength but Daniel is clear it rules the whole world absorbing everything into it. This is exactly what Roman Christianity did. Now there are only two section of the world that are not part of Roman Christianity. The Kings of the South IE Islam and the Kings of The East. Everywhere else is Roman Christianity.

Edited October 4th Douug was worried that the following paragraph would be something people thought he had said and I was quoting him this is not the case. This paragraph is me trying to say exactly what is says about what I posted further down in this post and in the previous Post.

I want to be clear to ALL who read this. This is NOT a statement against individuals but against a system of war and conquest in the Name of God. There have been millions and millions of true people of God over the centuries. Just as there were many good Hebrews in the Old Covenant. The end result ids the same The Hebrews as a whole Betrayed their Covenant and so has Christianity. They were attacked killed and the rest dragged away as slaves. Christianity will suffer the plagues.

(3) The willful king, who believes himself to be the greatest of gods, acknowledges other gods, not as great as he, but one in particular serves his agenda - the god of fortresses, who by his help gets victories.

That particular so called god, god of fortresses - will likely be Satan.

No it directly says he changes to worship the God of Forces...fortresses is a terrible translation. The Word is Moazim it means Forces and War it denotes strength and control of Mankind and Nature,. This is the False God Baal. The Good of War and of the Forces of Nature (ie: storms god lightening) the god also equated as The King of the 60 legions of Demons in Hell the teacher of forbidden knowledge to man.

For Pete Sakes Doug he is directly referenced by Peter Jude and others he is in Revelation. He is mentioned Twice in the warning to the Churches.

Please hear the words of Scripture

2 Peter2 [15] Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam,

Jude 1[11] Woe to them! For they walk in the way of Cain, and abandon themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error,

Rv 2:[14] But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam,

Rv 2:[20] But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jez'ebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and beguiling my servants to practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice immorality.

The stumbling Block was to Worship Baal Astarte and Malquart. The God of War and Forces.

The Practice of the Nicola'itans also mentioned twice in the warning to the Churches was To mix Pagan worship with Christianity. Nicolas was Bishop of Antioch who had been Pagan and did not see any issue with mixing worship of the Paganism with Christianity.

Jezebel taught Israel to worship Baal Look what Jesus says he will do to Churches that Fall to worshiping Baal and mixing Paganism with Christianity This is what Jesus says about laying in Bed and fornicating with this harlot

[22] Behold, I will throw her on a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her doings;[23] and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.

I mean Come on Doug does God have to spoon feed this information to you?

I digress back to Daniel 36 to 39 which describes the changes in Rome's way of Worship

This kingdom starts off worshipping one set of God's ie the Gods of his fathers. Then The rulers demand that they be worshipped as Gods. Then it changes a again to the God of Forces which is used to Attack a Mighty Fortress. you said "who by his help gets victories." This is EXACTLY what Constantine did. He claimed Jesus talked to him from the Clouds told him to paint crosses on their Shields and go forth Conquering and to Conquer.

This is so whole thing is spelled out so clearly if it is one man then he is psychitzophrenic.

Look at the beast in Rev 13........Satan give Him His Throne...where is Satan's Throne

[12] "And to the angel of the church in Per'gamum write: `The words of him who has the sharp two-edged sword.[13] "`I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; you hold fast my name and you did not deny my faith even in the days of An'tipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

Ok so Why is Satan's throne here. Well it was the temple of Zeus and Athena and the Great Alter.....Father God and Mother Goddess in Greek culture the exact same as Baal Father God and Astarte Mother Goddess. Only the names change. The story is the Same. In 273 AD this Temple was rededicated to ..........wait for it..................................Baal Astarte and Melquart who was now being called Mithras by order of the Emperor Mithra is the Iranian Version of the Son God and I mean Son and Sun. He was the Son of the Father God and in fact was the Father God reincarnated in Mithra.

Look At Constantine's Coin from 320ca. after he converted Him one side Mithra the other and the Inscription To the Unconquering Son

Christianity was turned into a religion of War and Conquest. Roman Christianity (Nicola'itans) is what Jesus hated so Much the Mix of Christianity and Paganism and Falling on the stumbling block of Baal the Worship of the God of War and Forces it is the Fourth Beast in its final form. Look if you do not get it yet I guess you never will. I sure hope not but that is all I have to say

 

[spiritfilledjm]

It'll happen how it happens and nothing that we think will change it. Just keep your lamps full.

 

[tranquil]

Hi Tranq

Sorry I some how missed your post


Simple Question where does the stone hit the statue????????????? Yes of course the whole statue was destroyed when its feet where taken out. Because it took out the feet. If a giant stone hit the Statue of Liberty and smashes the feet to pieces what will happen to the rest of the statue. It would crumble to the ground in pieces. You are negating where the stone hits and saying it matters not. When it is all that matters. If it didn't matter it would just say it hit the statue and smashed it to pieces. This however is a prophecy of everything that would happen from Babylon to Jesus return which we now know as been a 2,600 year period so far. Since the Head is 650 BC and the Feet and Toes are yet future we see that where the stone hits is a statement of not only Kingdom but also of time.



Tranq I am sorry I tried to follow what you are saying here but there was just not enough information for me. Let me see if I understood you please forgive me if I did not. I got that you see the fourth kingdom co-ruling with the third and that you see the Two horned Beast of Rv 13: co-ruling with the first beast of Rv:13: You Then Said "The 10 horned kingdom is the beast from the sea and the Daniel 8 Little Horn is the co-ruling entity out of Greece/ Javan (whose 4 sons are Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Rodanim). Tyre is the 'daughter' of Tarshish in Isaiah 23:10 - making the king of Tyre the Daniel 8 Little horn." This is where I got confused I assume you mean the 10 horned Kingdom of Dan 7: not Dan 8: and the Little horn of Daniel 7: not Daniel 8: or did you mean the Notable Horn in Daniel 8:? If I am understanding you you are saying that the King of Tyre is the little horn of Daniel 7: IS that correct. If so Which King of Tyre are you referring to?

I will stop here so I get get clarity from you one this so that I am understanding the point you are trying to make. Just address these points if you could so I get get clarity on your belief and I will answer the rest of the post Thanks

I believe Daniel 11:40 on is yet to happen. I believe the reason we have not heard of anything about the King of the North and South for 2,000 years is because there has been no King of the South. the King of the North totally overwhelmed the King of the SOuth to such an extent their language was lost to us for over 1800 years.

I would say that all of Dan 11 is yet future. It is so tortured in language as to be almost useless, but it should still be used. Daniel 11:30 mentions the ships of Kittim coming against 'him'.

Since Balaam's final oracle is said to be for the latter days in Numbers 24:14, then this 'him' is the Assyrian. Numbers 24

23 And he took up his discourse and said,
“Alas, who shall live when God does this?
24 But ships shall come from Kittim
and shall afflict Assyria and Eber;
and he too shall come to utter destruction.”​

Which Psalm 83:6-8 gives us either Tyre or the Assyrian as the most likely candidates for being the 11th horn. (Kittim being one of the 4 'sons of Greece/ 'Javan' in Daniel 8.)

So since we are still at an impasse with the 4th kingdom, let's look at Daniel 11:40-45. From the various descriptions, the king of the North is very clearly referring to the King of Babylon. Daniel 11:44 talks about the east & north news = Babylon being attacked by the north (Jeremiah 50:2-3) in which the 'kingdom from the north' is defined as the Medes attacking (Jeremiah 51:11). The 'east' is the 'east wind' from the Lord (hence the Euphrates motif in the 6th Trumpet & 6th Bowl).

Jeremiah 25:15-27 says that the King of Babylon is the last to drink the cup of wrath.

​

Jeremiah 50:17

Israel is a scattered flock, chased away by lions. The first to devour him was the king of Assyria;
the last to crush his bones was Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon.”
​

Jeremiah 51:41 calls the king of Babylon 'Sheshach' which is part of the 'mystery' Babylon ('Shesh' is 6 in Hebrew.

Ezekiel 29 describes Babylon 'carrying off Egypt's wealth' (Daniel 11:43)

18“Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre. Every head was made bald, and every shoulder was rubbed bare, yet neither he nor his army got anything from Tyre to pay for the labor that he had performed against her. 19Therefore thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; and he shall carry off its wealth and despoil it and plunder it; and it shall be the wages for his army. 20I have given him the land of Egypt as his payment for which he labored, because they worked for me, declares the Lord God.

21“On that day I will cause a horn to spring up for the house of Israel, and I will open your lips among them. Then they will know that I am the Lord.”​

It is even in the context of Babylon being rewarded for destroying Tyre (the king of Tyre being the Daniel 8 Little Horn). It is called the 'day of the Lord' in Ezekiel 30:3-11 when Babylon destroys Egypt and takes over Cush (Daniel 11:43).

Daniel 11:45 echoes Jeremiah 43

10Then tell them that this is what the LORD of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: ‘I will send for My servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and I will set his throne over these stones that I have embedded, and he will spread his royal pavilion over them. 11He will come and strike down the land of Egypt, bringing death to those destined for death, captivity to those destined for captivity, and the sword to those destined for the sword.​

Compare this with 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.​

So when the 7th Trumpet kingdom of heaven comes, you want to say that there is no king of Babylon, that there is only the '4th kingdom'. But there very clearly is a king of Babylon - he is the king of the North in Dan 11:40-45.

 

[Douggg]

This is NOT a statement against individuals but against a system of war and conquest in the Name of God.

I don't get it. The king in verse 36 is not doing things in the Name of God, but in opposition to God.

History identifies the king of the north in verses 30-31 as Antiochus. So the concept of the kings in Daniel 11 as systems is out. The willful king who meets his end in verse 45 is an individual.

No it directly says he changes to worship the God of Forces...fortresses is a terrible translation. The Word is Moazim it means Forces and War it denotes strength and control of Mankind and Nature,. This is the False God Baal. The Good of War and of the Forces of Nature (ie: storms god lightening) the god also equated as The King of the 60 legions of Demons in Hell the teacher of forbidden knowledge to man.

Baal was a known god in the ancient world of the bible, to both Jews and non Jews. The god of fortresses is a god the willful king's forefathers never knew, verse 38. So Baal is out.

BAAL IN THE BIBLE

For Pete Sakes Doug he is directly referenced by Peter Jude and others he is in Revelation. He is mentioned Twice in the warning to the Churches.

Please hear the words of Scripture

2 Peter2 [15] Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam,

Balaam is not Baal. Balaam was a false prophet.

BALAAM IN THE BIBLE

I mean Come on Doug does God have to spoon feed this information to you?

Belittling me is not going to make your view any more vaild, rationale, or understandable, or coherent.

There is no King of the West you are adding it. And quite frankly your separation of America and the rest of Christianity from Europe makes absolutely no sense.

The reality is that the EU, allied with a post rapture U.S. and Canada would be the greatest military force ever on the planet. The battles in Daniel 11:40-44 are near the end of the 7 years as a prelude to Armageddon, as God gathers all nations into the region. From all points of the compass, north, south, east, west.

On my chart, I indicate that the (post rapture) US and Canada will be allied with the King of the west, the beast and his kingdom (the post rapture) EU.

The little horn person will be a king of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7. Later, after being the Antichrist for a while, he becomes the beast in Revelation 13, which then he becomes dictator of the EU, king of the west.

 

[U.S. Grant]

This being true and having to be True who is the fourth Kingdom? Who was it yesterday and 1,000 years ago and who is it today?

Since Christ's death and resurrection, God cares nothing for differing nations and kingdoms of the earth. They are all but a drop in the bucket, and they are all uncircumcised, with only hope of individual repentance and believing the gospel of the cross.

The only kingdom on earth the Lord cares about in particular is that of His redeemed body and holy nation.

With the New Testament, the only warfare of God is Spiritual in ministry:

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies...And many shall follow their pernicious ways.

For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

The abomination of desolation is ministerial warfare with the saints, and that man of sin is revealed whensoever he sits as a king in his own right by way of his own mind preached for doctrine of Christ:

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them.

The 4th kingdom began as the Roman Empire, into which Christ came to set up His kingdom after the cross and His resurrection, which was during the days of the new kings of Rome: the Emperors.

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed.

From the first persecutions in Judea through the last tribulations on earth, there shall remain alive a remnant elect at His coming to reign over the earth:

Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter.

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come...And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth.

The nature of the religion of Rome was that of iron power: If the God of Rome was judged offended in any way by any citizen or stranger, then the death penalty was instant and cruel.

And so today, there remains sects of Christianity with many heads, all of which have the same characteristic of Romanized iron power:

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

They separate themselves from the rest of the body of Christ, by bringing in an iron-clad rule made necessary for salvation, and proceed to judge all others based upon it.

They begin a ministerial war with the saints of God, including false judgment of the brethren, and no amount of Scriptural reproof and admonition is able to dissuade them from their cult-like Roman warfare:

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them.

And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

Each of them in turn have their one single idol of teaching to themselves, with their own lawgiving king upon which all fellowship of salvation is judged, and Mystery Babylon is the Mother of all such harlot ministries, that could even deceive the elect into their separation from the body by eating of their idolatrous fruit:

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

The 4th kingdom ongoing since the days of the apostles is the kingdom of darkness at ministerial war with the kingdom of God's dear Son: the dragon remains full of wrath against them, that have forsaken his kingdom, to become born again into the kingdom of Light.

These self-made tin-horn kings of ministry each have their one hour of power with the beast, and at the end of the last days, they will unite together to throw off any pretence of unity with the rest of the body of Christ, and will fight with the Lamb Himself, who is in the air with His resurrected saints:

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

God no more cares about one nation or kingdom or another, and they are all the same to Him and ought be to us: Uncircumcised nations on earth, among whom Jesus is calling out believers unto Himself.

The only real danger and power Christians face is those that would divide and conquer the body of Christ through pernicious commandments of iron mixed in with the potter's clay of God's Word: seed of men mingled with that of God.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

I don't get it. The king in verse 36 is not doing things in the Name of God, but in opposition to God.

You are arguing with your self I never said he did say he was doing it it Gods Name I said they all claimed to be God.

and I know who Balaam was. Who was he a false Prophet of where did he do his animal sacrifices at a Temple high place of Baal? Who did he get the Israelites to Worship Baal

 

[Douggg]

You are arguing with your self I never said he did say he was doing it it Gods Name I said they all claimed to be God.

You wrote...

"This is NOT a statement against individuals but against a system of war and conquest in the Name of God."

You had written all about Constantine; then when I questioned you, you say Cosnstantine is not the willful king of verse 36.

One more time, who is the willful king in verse36? The he who meets his end in verse 45?

 

[Douggg]

and I know who Balaam was. Who was he a false Prophet of where did he do his animal sacrifices at a Temple high place of Baal? Who did he get the Israelites to Worship Baal

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Therefore, since his fathers all had known about Baal, the god of forces cannot be Baal.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Doug

Belittling me is not going to make your view any more vaild, rationale, or understandable, or coherent.

I did not mean for that to be belittling you I apologize if you took it that way. It was just my way of saying it is so obvious. Hey but you don't know me and my sense of humour or debating so I do apologize.

The reality is that the EU, allied with a post rapture U.S. and Canada would be the greatest military force ever on the planet. The battles in Daniel 11:40-44 are near the end of the 7 years as a prelude to Armageddon, as God gathers all nations into the region. From all points of the compass, north, south, east, west.

Doug you are adding things that are just not there. There are three entities in Daniel 11 verse 40 on The King of the North the King of South and the Kings of the East. You are adding things to make it fit your preconceived notion of the End Times. You have Gog in here you have a King of the West. They are not in the text because they are not there. You need to trust Scripture 100%.