The flat earth

[JerryTheMaverick]

Hello friends Im Jerry. I read recently a theory that the Earth is not a globe like they tell us but is flat. There seems to be proof in the Bible too. Isaiah 40:22, Genesis 10-11, Proverbs 8:27, Ezekiel 5:5, and others
I believe the Bible is right in everything, and it seems to me to say that the Earth is flat. Im not against science but when it goes against God's truth I am. There seems to be science to back up a flat Earth too. Google 'Flat Earth Society'.
I dont know much about the specific math stuff but it seems legit.
Also, Ive realized Jesus surely didnt think the Earth was round. I have never heard of our Lord being wrong in anything so could he be wrong in this? I dont know. Its making me have to decide between my strong commitment to the Bible's word but also to what science tells us. Obviously theyve been wrong before (evolution, etc.) but this is big. I don't know

What does everyone else think?

Thank you for listening and God Bless

Jerry

 

[SteveNZ]

I have both measured parts of it and flown over much of it. Believe me it is ball like planet. Us surveyors use the mathematical model of a spheroid which suits well.

 

[JerryTheMaverick]

But what about the scriputure?

 

[SteveNZ]

Please research and fund out?
Does the Bible teach that the Earth is flat?

The chain of thought process is not made of metal links!
Yet you share as though it should be!?

 

[Sketcher]

None of those passages even seem to teach a flat earth to me.

 

[SteveNZ]

Sorry for being smart, folk....
I agree that scripture does not identify that flat earth idea. You would have to twist the understanding to do so.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Here's an article about this subject (it's a Protestant website, so I think it's within the rules for this sub-forum):
Flat earth myth - creation.com

 

[cubanito]

None of the Bible passages at all imply a flat Earth. Some are translational ambiguities, such as Isaiah 40. In ancient Hebrew there was no word for sphere, the word "circle" is used and in fact is the closest that language had to a roughly spherical object like the Earth.

It should be noted that from the time of Jesus certainly, and much earlier probably, learned men knew the earth was a sphere form some very simple observations. In fact, the circumference of the Earth was measured by a Greek to withing 5% of the actual figure! If you look at a sailng ship leaving, the bottom "sinks" into the obviously curved horizon long before the top sails disapear from sight. This was correctly taken to mean by the ancients that the Earth was a sphere.

I would like to add here that the argument between Columbus and the U of Salamanca was NOT wether the Earth was flat; everyone knew it was sphetical (save superstitious illiterate sailors). Rather it was the SIZE of the Earth that was being argued. With the ships available at the time (the largest was the new "caravela") it was known that Columbus would die of thirst before reaching India....and the U of Salamanca was right. Columbus was WRONG, which is why to this day the inhabitants of the Americas are still oft called "indians." As to why Columbus thought he was right, that tale involves the largest nut in the world and some Canaries. I will not elaborate.

BTW, of interest is that Galileo was also wrong, and in fact, he lied about his data to bring support to the Copernican geocentric model. Yes ladies, Galileo was wrong, and no I am not ignorant of basic astronomy. Like many things, Galileo was made into a hero martyr when in fact he was clearly wrong, lied about his observationa AND very offensive politically. At the time, Tycho Brae had the most accurate and simple model, but who remembers that, huh?

And, ladies, since Einstein predicted gravitational lensing, it is clear that neither the sun goes around the Earth nor the Earth around the sun. But that's another tale in case there's an antipode interested...

JR

 

[John the Bpt]

None of the Bible passages at all imply a flat Earth.
JR

A sphere does not have corners nor ends.

Isaiah 11:12[bless and do not curse]
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Revelations 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Job 11:9
The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Job 28:24
For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven

 

[Hentenza]

A sphere does not have corners nor ends.

From an earthly view it could. Remember that some descriptions in scripture are anthropomorphical (from man's POV).

Isaiah 11:12[bless and do not curse]
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

The four compass points.

Revelations 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

The four compass points.

Job 11:9
The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

Nothing here about a flat earth. Read the verses preceding this one. Zophar is attempting to describe God's depth from his point of view.

7 “Can you discover the depths of God?
Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?
8 “They are high as [d]the heavens, what can you do?
Deeper than [e]Sheol, what can you know?
9 “Its measure is longer than the earth
And broader than the sea.
10 “If He passes by or shuts up,
Or calls an assembly, who can restrain Him?
11 “For He knows false men,
And He sees iniquity [f]without investigating.

Job 28:24
For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven

Again, nothing here about a flat earth. Job is describing God's omniscience.

23 “God understands its way,
And He knows its place.
24 “For He looks to the ends of the earth
And sees everything under the heavens.

BTW- I hope that when you use the current phrase "the sun comes out in the east and sets in the west" you are not implying that the sun revolves around the earth (as many did in earlier times). Right?

 

[Cactus Jack]

I went hiking today. Long ways. Cross country. Very tiring. Whoever thinks the Earth is flat needs to go on a hike with me sometime.

 

[classicalhero]

It seems that people are trying to make the Bible out as a scientific book when it is written in the language of the common people. Such phrases as "the four corners of the earth" is slang for from everywhere and it is a rather common saying, so I don't understand this wooden literalism we have in display.

 

[HitchSlap]

But what about the scriputure?

It's wrong, or your interpretation is wrong.

 

[lesliedellow]

But what about the scriputure?

Even if you believe the Bible to be inerrant, in trying to understand it, you cannot simply ignore the knowledge which comes to us from other spheres of human activity. If the Bible appears to conflict with fact X, there are three possibilities:

a.) Fact X is not really a fact (the Earth is not really spherical).

b.) The Bible is not inerrant.

c.) You have an erroneous understanding of scripture.

The possibility which fundamentalists are typically unwilling to contemplate is c.

 

[goodman528]

Having spent weeks shivering in the rain carrying heavy equipment from one muddy hill to the next as part of a surveying course, and having flown over a lot of the earth at 30,000ft, I can tell you with confidence that the earth is a spheroid.

In fact, it was one of the best moments of discovery I have ever had when I realized the reason why the angles didn't add up to 180 degrees was because the earth is not flat! And not just because it meant we didn't need to go out in the rain and redo all the measurements

As for the Bible passages you quoted, it's not a big deal. You know 100 years ago scientific understanding was that earth is a sphere, but now current scientific understanding is that the earth is not a sphere, it is some really complicated shape (google: "geodesy"). And that's just in the 3 dimensions we can see and touch, so what about the dimensions string theory says should exist that we don't see and touch everyday? So we know how we perceive the world, but we can't possible anything about how God perceive the world. It's like trying to teach a cute kitten maths:

 

[RedPonyDriver]

There are numerous pictures available which show the earth is not flat. The expression "four corners" is usually understood to mean the 4 cardinal directions, north, south, east and west.

The bible is NOT a scientific treatise. Yes, it is useful for teaching, reproof and correction, but it's NOT useful for science. For that, it might be wise to consult with scientists.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Hello friends Im Jerry. I read recently a theory that the Earth is not a globe like they tell us but is flat. There seems to be proof in the Bible too. Isaiah 40:22, Genesis 10-11, Proverbs 8:27, Ezekiel 5:5, and others
I believe the Bible is right in everything, and it seems to me to say that the Earth is flat. Im not against science but when it goes against God's truth I am. There seems to be science to back up a flat Earth too. Google 'Flat Earth Society'.
I dont know much about the specific math stuff but it seems legit.
Also, Ive realized Jesus surely didnt think the Earth was round. I have never heard of our Lord being wrong in anything so could he be wrong in this? I dont know. Its making me have to decide between my strong commitment to the Bible's word but also to what science tells us. Obviously theyve been wrong before (evolution, etc.) but this is big. I don't know

What does everyone else think?

Thank you for listening and God Bless

Jerry

I admire your desire to stay true to the Bible, but those verses don't prove a flat earth. Also, the earth being flat makes no sense. If it was flat we would have picture evidence of it's edge. We do however have picture evidence of it as a sphere, and it makes sense because all other celestial bodies are spherical in nature as well. Believe me, I hold the Bible over secular science any day, but don't hold to a belief as dumb as this one

 

[ray88c]

Hello, interesting discussion, I happen to believe in the flat earth model. Here are a few of my reasons, plus some of the ideas discussed already. The Isaiah 40 verse, cubanito, said that Isaiah didn't have a word for sphere, in Isaiah 22:18 he uses the word "ball"... Also mentioned was that ships disappear bottom first. This is due to the horizon line, like railroad tracks coming together, things appear to melt into the horizon.

Some things to consider before you blast a flat earth believer, Genesis 1 calles the moon the lesser light, doesn't say it reflects light. It's actually colder in moon light than in the shade...

We didn't land on the moon, we can't orbit earth, how do we have pictures of earth from space or pictures of the milky way galaxy?

A plane flight from NYC to LA takes the same amount of time both ways...

You can't see a curve in the horizon, bridges built do not account for the proper amount of curve of earth.

Bedford level experiment and several others like it.

How did Satan tempt Jesus with seeing all the kingdoms if you can't see THROUGH the earth...

United nations flag is a picture of the flat earth model.

There are pictures on Google of the sun and moon together, we shouldn't be able to see the moon if it's on the same side?

 

[HitchSlap]

Hello, interesting discussion, I happen to believe in the flat earth model. Here are a few of my reasons, plus some of the ideas discussed already. The Isaiah 40 verse, cubanito, said that Isaiah didn't have a word for sphere, in Isaiah 22:18 he uses the word "ball"... Also mentioned was that ships disappear bottom first. This is due to the horizon line, like railroad tracks coming together, things appear to melt into the horizon.

Some things to consider before you blast a flat earth believer, Genesis 1 calles the moon the lesser light, doesn't say it reflects light. It's actually colder in moon light than in the shade...

We didn't land on the moon, we can't orbit earth, how do we have pictures of earth from space or pictures of the milky way galaxy?

A plane flight from NYC to LA takes the same amount of time both ways...

You can't see a curve in the horizon, bridges built do not account for the proper amount of curve of earth.

Bedford level experiment and several others like it.

How did Satan tempt Jesus with seeing all the kingdoms if you can't see THROUGH the earth...

United nations flag is a picture of the flat earth model.

There are pictures on Google of the sun and moon together, we shouldn't be able to see the moon if it's on the same side?

 

[Mona Bilal]

Even if you believe the Bible to be inerrant, in trying to understand it, you cannot simply ignore the knowledge which comes to us from other spheres of human activity. If the Bible appears to conflict with fact X, there are three possibilities:

a.) Fact X is not really a fact (the Earth is not really spherical).

b.) The Bible is not inerrant.

c.) You have an erroneous understanding of scripture.

The possibility which fundamentalists are typically unwilling to contemplate is c.

Keeping in mind that Bible was a word of God ,which was later altered in many places by man.
Rgds