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Featured The first Pope was a married Priest

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by rockytopva, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Yes

    15 vote(s)
    78.9%
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%
  3. Undecided

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%
  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

    +6,227
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    If Peter was the first pope he was a married one....

    And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them. - Matthew 8:14-15

    And forthwith, when they were come out of the synagogue, they entered into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her. And he came and took her by the hand, and lifted her up; and immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them. - Mark 1:29-31

    And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her. And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.
    - Luke 4:38-39

    I believe it would be good for the Catholic Church to allow married priests. Here are some recent articles talking about it...

    Pope Francis meeting raises conservatives' fears of married priests - CNN
    Pope Opens Debate on Celibacy Requirement for Catholic Priests

    Here in Blacksburg we have a married Catholic Deacon by the name of Dr. Mike Ellerbrock who goes by the title of Deacon and Reverend...

    St. Mary's Staff
    Teaching and preaching: The vocations of Deacon Michael Ellerbrock | The Catholic Virginian

    I do not know why the married Dr. Mike Ellerbrock goes by the title of Deacon and Reverend. But I believe this man would do the Catholic Church good if they let this married man rise up through the ranks. I believe there are many married Catholics who would do their church good as married Priests. And to allow celibate priests only to those able to live such a life....

    His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. - Matthew 19:10-12

    I am a single man who was once in the youth ministry. While I was in this ministry it did well. When I lost my help I had to get out of this ministry as well as I dared not put myself in the position of being alone with children. If I were to serve in any kind of ministry I would want do it married or with a group.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +21,486
    Anglican
    Married
    That's right. The RCC's policy against married priests is purely an administrative one. If it were junked tomorrow, there would be no doctrinal (or Scriptural, as you noted) issue at all. Besides, it is a rule affecting only certain priests; there are a number of married priests in the Catholic church.
     
  3. spiritualchristian7

    spiritualchristian7 Member

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    I don't understand the need for celibacy inside the church. (I need to do some research)
    For now, I vote YES for allowing priests to marry.
     
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  4. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

    +15,451
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    Yes, in rites OTHER than the Latin Rite (which is by far the majority).
     
  5. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +21,486
    Anglican
    Married
    and clergy converting from other churches who are already married.
     
  6. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    I believe they have to go to one of the other rites rather than the Latin rite.
    I asked a question on this in the OBOB Catholic folder about a Latin rite priest that wanted to get married, could he transfer to a different rite and they said that was not possible. He either leaves the priesthood or goes to a different denomination.
     
  7. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +21,486
    Anglican
    Married
    I am pretty sure that is not true, although the ones in this category are few. And then there are the Anglican Ordinariate men who are essentially Latin Rite although maybe not categorized that way.

    Ah, well, that is a different matter. We were speaking of already-ordained men, but a Roman Catholic priest who wants to get out of his vow of celibacy in order to get married is in a much different situation.
     
  8. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,183
    Christian
    Married
    yes ...

    1 Timothy 3

    1 This saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his household well keeping his children in full submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own house, how shall he care for God’s church? 6 He must not be a recent convert, for he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace into a snare of the devil.
     
  9. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    The RCC can do what it wishes, but I don't see the Scriptural basis for either the priesthood or compulsory celibacy. Celibacy is a good thing with the right motivation, but it shouldn't be mandatory.

    I suspect the RCC really doesn't care what I think about it, but I do.
     
  10. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

    +6,227
    Pentecostal
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    Peters wife must have been a remarkable woman....

    And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her. And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.
    - Luke 4:38-39

    1. She allowed Peter to follow Jesus
    2. After arising she immediately ministered to them

    Not much is written about Peter’s family, which would have been interesting reads!
     
  11. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,412
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    Even the other rites I think don't allow them to marry post-ordination...
     
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  12. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    I have never met what you would call a good Catholic priest, so I don’t know what they are all about. Most of what I read on priests in the news is bad, but, as I liken the media to spiritual alley cats and alley dogs, bringing out all the garbage they can find, I do not cast the majority out as bad.

    My last visit to a Catholic Church was with a hard to understand Nigerian priest. I believe if it were not for the celibacy rule they could have done better.
     
  13. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

    +747
    Non-Denom
    Married
    This is where getting back to scriptural authority as truth makes a strong case the celibate prohibitions were never mandated by God. If you go doctrine by doctrine and back to the scriptural basis there would be a lot of change in the RCC
     
  14. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

    +6,227
    Pentecostal
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    Also remembering the old proverb....

    Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the Lord. - Proverbs 18:22
     
  15. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

    +701
    Christian
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    I think it would be actually better, if only married men would be allowed to be priests, because:

    The overseer therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, modest, hospitable, good at teaching; not a drinker, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having children in subjection with all reverence; (but if a man doesn't know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the assembly of God?) not a new convert, lest being puffed up he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have good testimony from those who are outside, to avoid falling into reproach and the snare of the devil.
    1 Tim. 3:2-7

    But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, through the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron; forbidding marriage and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
    1 Tim. 4:1-3
     
  16. ralfyman

    ralfyman Member

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    From what I remember, some of the reasons involved Church property lost to wives and children of married priests. Today, they involve concerns over providing enough income to support families. At least the same were raised by some married priests who converted to Catholicism.
     
  17. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

    +3,744
    Lutheran
    Married
    Not so. I know of a couple former Lutheran Pastors that are now Priests in the Latin Rite (married with Children). I also know of a number of former Catholic Priests that are now Lutheran Pastors; a couple never married.

    I believe in the CC the Rites that do allow married clergy allow only marriage before ordination. After ordination, if they are widowed, they must remain celebrate. A married Priest can not become a Bishop in any Rite in the CC.
     
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  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    United States
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    Good point And "the Christian church" already does allow priests and pastors to marry but not all churches do
     
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  19. tz620q

    tz620q Regular Member Supporter

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    Deacons can be married in all rites of Catholicism. Many are older men who have heard the call at a later age and decided to devote a large part of their time to being a servant of the church. I don't know of many that want to become a priest; but maybe that is because the deacon's life is already full of family, children, grandchildren, and their duty as a deacon. I suppose it could be a deterrent to some that the priest must be unmarried. By the way, there has been men who became priests later after being widowed.

    I think it takes a thoughtful study to see the advantages and disadvantages to both disciplines. This is certainly open for debate with the Catholic Church. On the plus side, a celibate, unmarried priest has only one master, the church. This models Paul's life and advice on how to be holy. On the minus side, it is often difficult for men to temper their desires, which can lead to scandal. In my opinion, we should not let the minority that cause scandal, set the rules for the majority that do not. That said, it was wise of you to avoid this scandal by not working alone with children. That is one hard and fast rule within Catholicism right now, down to the last volunteer; and I think is responsible for the sharp reduction in reported child abuse within Catholic parishes.
     
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  20. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    Thanks for the reply. I have read extensively on the Catholic Church and will sometimes attend service. Pope Callistus and Saint Hippolytus were two important figures with two different theologies....

    Hippolytus- the ideal of the church as a pure community and not tolerating sins, a church of the pure.
    Callistus - the ideal of the church as a saving community representing the church as Noah’s Ark, taking in ‘all kinds,’ both clean and unclean. Being quick to lovingly encourage repentance and restoration. And also dealing with explosive church growth in his time.

    I believe Pope Callistus was correct! And all Christian churches suffer from the unclean things that enter the congregations The only reason the Catholic Church gets the greater publicity is because they are the larger congregation. As long as we try to entertain the idea of ‘church’ scandal and problems will follow as we are all unique creatures. If my opinion would mean anything I would encourage the Catholic Church to allow married deacons to also pastor churches. Celibacy is tough as Christ taught as something all men cannot handle.
     
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