The finished work of Christ

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Dave-W

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If you knew anything about the law of God you would know that it is broken up into the letter (Torah) and the spirit (love).
BG - I submit that you have a very skewed view of basic scripture which has led to a lot of misunderstanding.

The bible teaching (Torah) is not divided.
 
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BobRyan

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We keep the holy and spiritual law of God by having God's love with compassion, mercy, patience, forgiveness etc. Not by doing this and not doing that. .

So then just making stuff up and ignoring the actual Word of God??

By contrast -- notice the "Bible details"


<staff edit>
In Matt 22 Jesus affirms OT - LAW and scripture
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

The firm foundation for the LAW and the prophets - LOVE.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AFFIRMED in NT

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;

and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31



Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.


Rom 13 NKJV
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,
You shall not murder,
You shall not steal,
You shall not bear false witness,”
You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Rom 13 HCSB - Holman Bible
8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 The commandments:
Do not commit adultery;
do not murder;
do not steal;
do not covet;

and whatever other commandment—all are summed up by this: Love your neighbor as yourself.
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.



Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law.


13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"ALL have sinned" Romans 3:23

Both Jews AND Gentiles are explicitly included in Romans 2 --
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Your response to those texts is to ignore every text quote - and rely solely on false accusation. In Rev 12 we have the accuser of the brethren doing that. Other than that reason - do you have another reason for doing it.??

hint - the mere quote of these texts is sufficient cause to give rise to your strong objections to them.
 
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Truthfrees

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bloodygrace

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So then just making stuff up and ignoring the actual Word of God??

By contrast -- notice the "Bible details"


<staff edit>


Your response to those texts is to ignore every text quote - and rely solely on false accusation. In Rev 12 we have the accuser of the brethren doing that. Other than that reason - do you have another reason for doing it.??

hint - the mere quote of these texts is sufficient cause to give rise to your strong objections to them.

We keep the holy law of God by having the love of God written in the heart. Why is it so hard for the old covenant Christians to understand the new covenant of grace?
 
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BobRyan

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We keep the holy law of God by having the love of God written in the heart.

I thank you for "quoting you" in that example.

Now let's look at 1 John 5:2-3 as "a quote" -

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

There is no "have the love of God written in the heart" text that can be quoted in the actual Bible, though we might be able to paraphrase that into the New Covenant text with some justification.

So then we DO have the actual "NEW Covenant" that we can quote -- Jeremiah 31:31-33 Hebrew 8:6-10... did you mean to quote it??
 
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BobRyan

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I'm a former Adventist so I know your theology better than you.

why in the world would that statement even make sense given that you never show a single SDA doctrine to be in error according to scripture??

How does such a practice on your part then lead you to the wild claim that having g left and forgotten what you had studied makes you a more informed source than those who did not leave and are still in careful Bible study? Why are you saying such things??

Is there some exchange on this thread where you attempt to prove your wild assertion above with actual fact???

(Given that you now admit you are not SDA - of any kind at all - how is it that such statements as you make above - are in keeping with the forum guidelines?)
 
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BobRyan

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Jesus will never go to the cross and die again


That is true. At what point do you prove that such a wild suggestion to the contrary was ever posted by anyone here? Much less posted by Ellen White or anyone else ever in the past??

By go down those false-accusation roads over and over again.

so what he accomplished 2000 years ago is perfect, finished and complete.

True. 1 John 2:2 calls it the completed "Atoning Sacrifice" so also do SDAs - and also Ellen White.

We all knew that before you posted.

Where is the "news"??
 
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BobRyan

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Atheists can keep the commandments, Bob! It's not that hard. .

Not according to the actual Bible.

I find your posts full of "quotes of you" -- why not present a Bible case?

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

More Bible please.
 
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BobRyan

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Bob, you are going against the core beliefs of this sub-forum. That's a no-no. .

Hint: This is an SDA forum not an "ex sda rants against SDA denomination with as much nonsense as possible" -- as I am sure we both know.

In a previous post you seemed to imagine that it is not for moderate SDAs... I find that "fascinating".

As a self-described "ex SDA" do you also claim to be "moderate SDA" or "progressive SDA"??
 
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BobRyan

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Not according to the actual Bible.

I find your posts full of "quotes of you" -- why not present a Bible case?

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

More Bible please.

Bob, you are going against the core beliefs of this sub-forum. That's a no-no.

What part of Romans 8 did you imagine to be against moderate SDAs???

Hint: here are the actual rules for this forum

Community Rules
In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against this group's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic. All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules.

There used to be a forum Progressive/Moderate/Former Seventh-day Adventists

You seem to be under the impression that only people who oppose the SDA set of doctrines may post here... How did you reach that point?
 
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bloodygrace

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Hint: this is a moderate or progressive SDA forum that is not beholden to the ten commandments or Ellen White which I am fully in agreement with. Most SDA are moderates anyway. The traditional uber legalists just spam their message like Bob Ryan the spammer who can't even enter into rational dialogue. I've debated you for years and you always bail when called out.
 
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BobRyan

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Hint: this is a moderate or progressive SDA forum that is not beholden to the ten commandments .

It is pretty hard to find a moderate SDA who does not know about -- and faithfully affirm God's Ten Commandments.

Do you mean "ex-SDA"??

===================

I am glad that some Bible details are so obvious that even these Sunday sources affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism
 
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BobRyan

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not beholden to the ten commandments or Ellen White which I am fully in agreement with. .

No doubt a great many non-SDAs take that position.

But this board is for SDAs .. in this case moderate SDAs.

And as you have stated repeatedly - you are certainly not SDA. So then why not show it least some civility here??
 
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mnorian

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this thread is permanently closed
for
egregious flaming and goading.
Carry on.
 
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