The finished work of Christ

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Dave-W

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Irrelevant skirting the issue. Just as bad as ignoring questions. IOW you haven't a leg to stand on so this is what you do instead of addressing the issue.
I used to have those same blinders on myself. It is very difficult to see anything clearly when you are so ingrained with false doctrine.

I noticed that every one of his posts are either here or the other Adventist folder or a Sabbath folder in general theology.

I think he is afraid of posting in the Messianic folder.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I used to have those same blinders on myself. It is very difficult to see anything clearly when you are so ingrained with false doctrine.

I noticed that every one of his posts are either here or the other Adventist folder or a Sabbath folder in general theology.

I think he is afraid of posting in the Messianic folder.

He is even afraid of posting here, hence the unanswered questions...tons of them. :)

I wore the blinders myself, and not to long ago. Ond day I realized, why? Why do I think this one particular law has been abolished, and I could find nothing to substantiate it had been.

Many use the "not under the law" thing as a way to do whatever they want in the area of sin/practice sin, for them there is no hope unless they choose to accept the truth. But for others, it's simply their reason for not keeping the Sabbath, otherwise, they do their best to actually keep the law. So in essence, many would need to change very little after admitting we still need to keep the law, whether we are "under" it or not.
 
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Dave-W

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I got you Ken.

I was raised in Wesleyan Holiness doctrine, and classic SDA culture is very similar. (same roots) But it was not until I started studying Torah (5 books of Moses) and trying to apply it to my own life that I was finally able to break free from the legalism. In total contradiction to what Bloody is saying, by going to a "law " based lifestyle, I lost the legalism.
 
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Soyeong

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Irrelevant skirting the issue. Just as bad as ignoring questions. IOW you haven't a leg to stand on so this is what you do instead of addressing the issue.



So now that Christ, and his father paid a huge price for our sin, all we need do is accept that, then skip along happily for the rest of out lives, make a practice of breaking the law, and still get to heaven?

Nope, I don't think that was the general idea God/Christ had in mind. I Personally, appreciate what they did enough that I will try harder to keep the commandments than I would with the old covenant.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.


15 What then? Shall we sin wbecause we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!


Not being "under" the law does not mean we aren't to keep the law. Why do you choose to misunderstand that? Says it right there...it states we're are not to sin, and since the law is what defines sin in the first place, we are to keep the law.Or, not sinning means not breaking the law, as the law is the sin God does not want us to do...it is him telling us exactly what sin is so there is no confusion.

Edit:

I wonder why people think not being under the law equates to not having to keep the law? Maybe it's the fact they choose to sin and that is their way of justifying it? That's all I a can figure. And when that becomes the case, I guess people will defend their faulty stance tooth and nail, regardless of how hard one tries to convince them otherwise.

Selfishness is a very powerful thing...so powerful, one is willing to even fool themselves in order to continue in it.



Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

For some reason, people don't associate the first half of the verse with the second half. The Mosaic law is not the law where sin had dominion over us, but rather that was the law of sin. The preceding verses talk about death no longer having dominion over us, so by extension we are no longer under the law of sin and death. In Romans 7, Paul said that God's law is holy, righteous, and good, that it is the good he sought to do and delighted in doing, but contrasted that with a law of sin that was stirring up sin and working within him to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do.

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Everything listed in the surrounding verses as being works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic law while everything listed as being fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with the law, so what sense does it make to interpret this as saying that we are not under the Mosaic law if we are led by the Spirit? Rather, it is the law of sin that stirs up the works of the flesh that are against the Spirit that we are not under if we are led by the Spirit.

At the end of the day, 2 Peter 3:15-17 says that Paul is difficult to understand, but those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his words to their own destruction and have fallen into the error of lawlessness, so if we ever interpret Paul as speaking against anyone keeping the Mosaic law, then we have misunderstood him.
 
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Soyeong

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Stop derailing my thread with your useless law banter!!

I considered my post to be on topic in that understand correctly understanding what law we are under is directly related to understanding the finished work of Christ. Christ gave himself to redeem us from lawlessness, not so that we would be free to be lawless.
 
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bloodygrace

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I considered my post to be on topic in that understand correctly understanding what law we are under is directly related to understanding the finished work of Christ. Christ gave himself to redeem us from lawlessness, not so that we would be free to be lawless.

There's no law in the finished work of Christ except the law of faith which you break over and over. The bible says flat out that the law of God is spiritual Rom. 7:14. A spiritual law is not one you can physically keep. The law of gravity for example is a law I cannot physically see but I can see the effects of this law in the physical world. The law of God is the same way. I can't physically see it but when I break it and experience condemnation the physical results are manifested. The law of Moses is not spiritual but carnal and fleshly just like the so-called law keepers on this board.
 
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Soyeong

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There's no law in the finished work of Christ except the law of faith which you break over and over. The bible says flat out that the law of God is spiritual Rom. 7:14. A spiritual law is not one you can physically keep. The law of gravity for example is a law I cannot physically see but I can see the effects of this law in the physical world. The law of God is the same way. I can't physically see it but when I break it and experience condemnation the physical results are manifested. The law of Moses is not spiritual but carnal and fleshly just like the so-called law keepers on this board.

Deuteronomy 30:11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.

God said that what He commanded was not too hard, so the idea that it is impossible to keep is in direct contradiction to God, and and nothing is impossible with God. The law of Moses was commanded by God, so it is God's law, and it is spiritual because it was intended to teach us spiritual principles of which the laws are examples. Everything that is listed as a work of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21 is against what the Mosaic law teaches, it is false to say that the Mosaic law is of the flesh. Furthermore, the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Mosaic law (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and it is those who have a carnal mind who refuse to submit to the Mosaic law (Romans 8:7).
 
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bloodygrace

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Deuteronomy 30:11 “For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.

God said that what He commanded was not too hard, so the idea that it is impossible to keep is in direct contradiction to God, and and nothing is impossible with God. The law of Moses was commanded by God, so it is God's law, and it is spiritual because it was intended to teach us spiritual principles of which the laws are examples. Everything that is listed as a work of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21 is against what the Mosaic law teaches, it is false to say that the Mosaic law is of the flesh. Furthermore, the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Mosaic law (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and it is those who have a carnal mind who refuse to submit to the Mosaic law (Romans 8:7).

This has absolutely nothing to do with the finished work of Christ aka the gospel. Since Bob Ryan loves to report me to the mods I am going to start reporting others.
 
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Soyeong

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This has absolutely nothing to do with the finished work of Christ aka the gospel. Since Bob Ryan loves to report me to the mods I am going to start reporting others.

You are right, reporting people out of spite has nothing to do with the finished work of Christ, whereas my previous post has just as much to do with the finished work of Christ as the one I responded to.
 
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bloodygrace

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You are right, reporting people out of spite has nothing to do with the finished work of Christ, whereas my previous post has just as much to do with the finished work of Christ as the one I responded to.

The finished work of Christ deals with the atonement or what he accomplished on the cross for mankind.

Arminians present the atonement as universal for all men but predicated upon faith so it is not finished or complete at the cross.

Calvinists present the atonement as limited and applicable to only the elect of God but finished and complete at the cross.

Lutherans present the atonement as universal for all men but effective only thru faith alone. They go back and forth as to whether it was finished at the cross.

SDA claim to preach the gospel so this topic falls within their belief set. SDA with their sanctuary doctrine present Christ as having a most holy place phase in the heavenly sanctuary so they do not see the atonement as finished and complete at the cross. The only organized body today that presents the atonement as finished and complete are Calvinists but they fall short as to saying it was for all mankind. Was there anything about the law in anything I just posted?
 
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Dave-W

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Was there anything about the law in anything I just posted?
No ...

So you alone are right and everyone else is wrong. Ok........ If that is the way you want to play it.
 
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bloodygrace

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Heard OF him. Never listened TO him.

Ever heard of DEREK Prince?

I am not into the Christian Zionist speakers who are so blind that they can't even figure out that the bible speaks of an Israel of the flesh (1Cor. 10:18) and an Israel of the Spirit (Rom. 2:28,29). Jacob the father Israel was not born with that name. It was given to him after his night a trouble with the angel of the Lord. Jacob prevailed with God which is the same understanding as overcoming. An overcomer is not a legalistic rule keeper but someone who's faith has been tested and tried and shown to be genuine. It's all about faith and living in the spirit. The flesh profits nothing.
 
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Dave-W

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I have heard of him and he is one of those guys who rails on replacement theology.
I knew him personally and I never EVER heard that from him.

IMO he was the best bible teacher of the entire 20th century. And no - he was NOT messianic.
 
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