The Final Harvest

[5thKingdom]

.
In the Bible, the Final Harvest is shown from several different perspectives.
In order to have Biblical Truth about the Final Harvest we must first be able
to harmonize ALL RELATED verses about that event. Otherwise (at best)
we can only offer some partial-truth about this very important event.


In Revelation 18 the destruction of the Fourth Kingdom is shown [v.2]
as "Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen". The "Final Harvest" of Saints,
immediately before the destruction of Babylon, is shown [v.4] as the
Lord Commands the Last Saints to "Come out of her, My people". And
the Saints are told [v.20] to "rejoice" over the destruction of Babylon
for "God hath avenged you on her".


In Revelation 19 the destruction of Babylon is shown [v.20] as the
False Prophet and Revelations Beast are "cast alive" into the eternal
"Lake-of-Fire". The "Final Harvest" immediately before destruction
of the "great harlot" [v.2] is shown as the Saints are commanded
[v.17] to "gather yourselves together unto the SUPPER of the Great
God". Then again [v.9] the "Final Harvest" is shown when the Saints
are "called unto the MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb". And once more
we see [v.2] when God destroys the Kingdom of "Babylon the Great",
He also "hath avenged the blood of His servants".


In Revelation 11 the destruction of Babylon is shown [v.13] as a
"great earthquake", and the "Final Harvest" is shown [v.12] as the
Last Saints are commanded to "Come up hither. And they ascended
up to heaven in a cloud". Again the "Final Harvest" is shown occurring
immediately before destruction of the Fourth Beast. However, this time,
the Bible reveals [v.14] the TIME for fulfillment of this event, it is just
before the end of the "Second Woe"... that is important.


In Matthew 25 the destruction of the Kingdom of "Babylon the Great"
is shown [v.10] when the "Door was Shut". The "Final Harvest" is again
shown [v.10] as a "Marriage" with "they that were ready went in with Him
to the Marriage". Again, the "Final Harvest" is before the "Door was Shut". However, in this case we see [v.11] there's a period on earth after the
"Final Harvest" is finished... as the Bible reveals "afterward came also the
other [foolish] virgins". This period after the "Door was Shut" is the period
which the Bible specifically NAMES as being the "Season and Time".
[Dan 7:11-12]


In Daniel 7 the destruction of the Fourth Beast is shown [v.11] when
"the Beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the Burning
Flame". (obviously this is the same event as the Revelation Beast being
"cast alive into the Lake of Fire" in Rev 20:10). The "Final Harvest" of
Saints is shown [v.18] as "the Saints of the Most High shall take the
Kingdom, and possess the Kingdom forever, even for ever and ever".
The "Final Harvest" of the Great Tribulation Saints is shown [v.22] as
"Judgment was given to the Saints of the Most High; and the time
came that the Saints possessed the [eternal] Kingdom".


In Daniel 7 the Bible actually reveals the NAME of the period on earth after
the "Final Harvest" of Saints, and after the destruction of the Fourth Beast.
The Bible [Dan 7:12] specifically names this period the "Season and Time".


The "Season and Time" is also shown in Rev 11:14 as the period AFTER
the end of the Second Woe, but BEFORE the start of the Third Woe. The
"Season and Time" is shown in Matthew 25:11-13 as the period AFTER
the Final Harvest of the "wise virgins" and AFTER the "Door was Shut".
The "Season and Time" is also shown as the period AFTER the Beast
is "cast alive into the Lake of Fire" [Rev 19:20] but BEFORE Satan and
the "Kingdoms of Man" JOIN THE BEAST in the Lake of Fire [Rev 20:10]


In the Bible, the Final Harvest is shown from several different perspectives.
In order to have Biblical Truth about the Final Harvest we must first be able
to harmonize ALL RELATED verses about that event, otherwise (at best)
we can only offer some partial-truth about this very important event.


.

 

[DavidPT]

In Daniel 7 the Bible actually reveals the NAME of the period on earth after
the "Final Harvest" of Saints, and after the destruction of the Fourth Beast.
The Bible [Dan 7:12] specifically names this period the "Season and Time".


The "Season and Time" is also shown in Rev 11:14 as the period AFTER
the end of the Second Woe, but BEFORE the start of the Third Woe. The
"Season and Time" is shown in Matthew 25:11-13 as the period AFTER
the Final Harvest of the "wise virgins" and AFTER the "Door was Shut".
The "Season and Time" is also shown as the period AFTER the Beast
is "cast alive into the Lake of Fire" [Rev 19:20] but BEFORE Satan and
the "Kingdoms of Man" JOIN THE BEAST in the Lake of Fire [Rev 20:10]

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


If verse 11 is meaning Revelation 19:20, which it appears to be, verse 12 is a better fit for the thousand years and satan's little season than what you are proposing. How can Revelation 19:20 not involve the 2nd coming? And if it does involve the 2nd coming, that places Daniel 7:12 chronologically after the 2nd coming. The only thing that could possibly explain Daniel 7:12 post the 2nd coming would be the thousand years and satan's little season.

 

[5thKingdom]

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


If verse 11 is meaning Revelation 19:20, which it appears to be, verse 12 is a better fit for the thousand years and satan's little season than what you are proposing. How can Revelation 19:20 not involve the 2nd coming? And if it does involve the 2nd coming, that places Daniel 7:12 chronologically after the 2nd coming. The only thing that could possibly explain Daniel 7:12 post the 2nd coming would be the thousand years and satan's little season.

No... the 1000 years are the church age BEFORE Satan is "loosened"
while the "Season and Time" is the period AFTER the Revelation
Beast is destroyed and the START of the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".

Satan's "Little Season" IS ALSO the reign of the Anti-Christ during
the Great Tribulation or Daniel's Fourth Beast or the period of the
"ten virgins".

The Eternal Kingdom BEGINS at the END of Daniel's Fourth Beast
and the END of the Revelation Beast and the END of the Great
Tribulation and the END of the experiences of the "ten virgins"...
AFTER the Final Harvest is complete.

There is no 1000 year "golden age" after the Final Harvest.
And there are no unsaved people during the Eternal Kingdom.
If you do not accept the AMillennial Kingdom being the church
age then you can NEVER harmonize the Eternal Kingdom at
the END of the Fourth Beast/Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation
or the "ten virgins"...

After the Final Harvest all the unsaved are told to "depart form
Me, I never knew you" and there is wailing and gnashing of teeth
as the see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and ALL the prophets
in the (eternal) "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 8:11]. What you
DON'T see in Scripture is a "golden age" on earth (which contains
sinners) AFTER the Eternal Kingdom begins.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Jim
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[5thKingdom]

If verse 11 is meaning Revelation 19:20, which it appears to be, verse 12 is a better fit for the thousand years and satan's little season than what you are proposing. .

First... the Bible is VERY CLEAR that Satan is "loosened" DURING
the Revelation Beast [Rev 9:1] and [Rev 12:17]

Here is where you must start, if you cannot harmonize these
Biblical facts then you are destined to continue your confusion.

These are all the SAME PERIOD of time with the SAME PEOPLE

(1) The Revelation Beast
(2) The Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
(3) Daniel's Fourth Beast/Kingdom
(4) The RULE of the Anti-Christ during Satan's "Little Season"
(5) The experiences of the ten "virgins" of Matthew 25:1-13
(6) The experiences of the ten "kings/horns" of Daniel 7
(7) The experiences of the ten "kings/horns" of Rev 17
(8) The experiences of the ten "kings" of Daniel 2:44

And we know this ABSOLUTELY because (in each case)
the PEOPLE living during these times are the PEOPLE on earth
when the Lord Returns during the Seventh Trumpet....
to ESTABLISH the ETERNAL KINGDOM.

This is not difficult... only the 1000 years of Rev 20 is
confusing you. But do you find ANY Biblical reason for
some 1000 year "golden age" AFTER the Lord Returns
and establishes the ETERNAL "Kingdom of Heaven"?

Also, the "first resurrection" is the new birth when our
souls are translated from DEATH into LIFE... it is at THAT TIME
when we are no longer subject to the Second Death [Rev 20:6].

And the church age is when the saints "live and reign with Christ"

Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Of course this power of the Great Commission occurs while
Satan is "bound" in the Bottomless Pit... which is WHY you see
Satan "loosened" at the START of the Revelation Beast.

There is no such Scripture teaching that sinners exist
on earth AFTER the Eternal Kingdom is established.
If you think otherwise PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE send
me the Scriptures that you think supports such a notion.

Just LOOK at the passages about the "Final Harvest" on
the OP... do you really think those things happen BEFORE
Satan is "loosened"? Really?

Finally... and I cannot stress this enough...
the "Season and Time" on earth (which you never heard of
until I taught it to you) is the period AFTER the Revelation
Beast (Satan's spiritual Kingdom) is cast into the Lake of Fire
[Rev 19:20] (same as the "Burning Flame" in Daniel 7:12)
but BEFORE Satan and all of the "Kingdoms of Man"
(world governments) are cast into the Lake [Rev 20:10]
TO JOIN THE BEAST

Jim

.

 

[5thKingdom]

First... the Bible is VERY CLEAR that Satan is "loosened" DURING
the Revelation Beast [Rev 9:1] and [Rev 12:17]

Here is where you must start, if you cannot harmonize these
Biblical facts then you are destined to continue your confusion.

These are all the SAME PERIOD of time with the SAME PEOPLE

(1) The Revelation Beast
(2) The Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
(3) Daniel's Fourth Beast/Kingdom
(4) The RULE of the Anti-Christ during Satan's "Little Season"
(5) The experiences of the ten "virgins" of Matthew 25:1-13
(6) The experiences of the ten "kings/horns" of Daniel 7
(7) The experiences of the ten "kings/horns" of Rev 17
(8) The experiences of the ten "kings" of Daniel 2:44

And we know this ABSOLUTELY because (in each case)
the PEOPLE living during these times are the PEOPLE on earth
when the Lord Returns during the Seventh Trumpet....
to ESTABLISH the ETERNAL KINGDOM.

This is not difficult... only the 1000 years of Rev 20 is
confusing you. But do you find ANY Biblical reason for
some 1000 year "golden age" AFTER the Lord Returns
and establishes the ETERNAL "Kingdom of Heaven"?

Also, the "first resurrection" is the new birth when our
souls are translated from DEATH into LIFE... it is at THAT TIME
when we are no longer subject to the Second Death [Rev 20:6].

And the church age is when the saints "live and reign with Christ"

Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Of course this power of the Great Commission occurs while
Satan is "bound" in the Bottomless Pit... which is WHY you see
Satan "loosened" at the START of the Revelation Beast.

There is no such Scripture teaching that sinners exist
on earth AFTER the Eternal Kingdom is established.
If you think otherwise PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE send
me the Scriptures that you think supports such a notion.

Just LOOK at the passages about the "Final Harvest" on
the OP... do you really think those things happen BEFORE
Satan is "loosened"? Really?

Finally... and I cannot stress this enough...
the "Season and Time" on earth (which you never heard of
until I taught it to you) is the period AFTER the Revelation
Beast (Satan's spiritual Kingdom) is cast into the Lake of Fire
[Rev 19:20] (same as the "Burning Flame" in Daniel 7:12)
but BEFORE Satan and all of the "Kingdoms of Man"
(world governments) are cast into the Lake [Rev 20:10]
TO JOIN THE BEAST

Jim

.

I see that over 300 people have READ about the
FIVE (5) different perspectives the BIBLE provides
on the "Final Harvest" and ONLY DavidPT has had
the courage to even TRY to refute this "mystery".

This information has NEVER been revealed to the
church before... I wonder HOW over 300 people
could see such HARMONY OF SCRIPTURE and
simply walk away.

Does nobody on this Christian Forum even CARE
about what the Bible teaches about the Final Harvest?

Does nobody on this Forum appreciate the depth
of perspective the BIBLE offers about this most
important event?

Am I speaking to CHRISTIANS out there?
What is the matter with you people?
Do you not CARE what the Bible says?

I find this (silence) absolutely amazing.

/

 

[DavidPT]

First... the Bible is VERY CLEAR that Satan is "loosened" DURING
the Revelation Beast [Rev 9:1] and [Rev 12:17]

Can you show in Revelation 12 where the beginning of a thousand years(the beginning of the past 2000 years, assuming Amil) fit when satan is in the pit? If you have him being loosed in verse 17, which verse do you have him being initially bound?

 

[5thKingdom]

Can you show in Revelation 12 where the beginning of a thousand years(the beginning of the past 2000 years, assuming Amil) fit when satan is in the pit? If you have him being loosed in verse 17, which verse do you have him being initially bound?

David, the 1000 years represents the church age because Satan
was "bound" at the Cross. During the Great Commission the
Saints "live and reign" with Christ while Satan is "bound".

Now, you must not imagine Satan is "bound" with physical chains
that are opened with a physical key or the "Bottomless Pit" is
some geographic location on earth. Instead, it is a CONDITION
of not being able to frustrate the Great Commission... when
JESUS (not Satan) has all the power in heaven and earth.

Mat 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto
the end of the age. Amen.

However... AFTER the Great Commission is finished...
after the "testimony" of the "two witnesses" (the church)
is finished then Satan is "loosened" [Rev 9 and Rev 12:17]
to attack the Last Saints... when the Holy Spirit is withdrawn
2 Thess 2:6-12... THEN Satan has POWER and "dominion".


Rev 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony,
the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit
shall make war against them,and shall overcome them, and kill them.


Listen, the Bible is clear that not everyone is MEANT to understand
what it teaches. You obviously do not understand the when/where
of the "first resurrection" so you cannot understand the 1000 yrs
are the church age - where the Saints "live and Reign with Christ"

As long as you think the 1000 years are AFTER the "end-of-the-age"
[Mat 28:18-20 above] you will be chasing your tail forever.

And remember, the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" is established
when the Revelation Beast and/or Daniel's Fourth Beast is
destroyed. The "Season and Time" is not the 1000 yrs.,
(nobody ever claimed it was in church history) it's the period
when the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]
and when the Last Saints are preaching the unsealed mysteries
about Daniel's prophecies [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10] and the
fulfillment of Great Tribulation prophecies [Mat 24:15,33]

And the entire premise of your confusion is illogical and
unBiblical because Satan is "loosened" at the START of
the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast... Satan is the one
who gives the Anti-Christ his POWER and his SEAT [rule]
and his AUTHORITY. So clearly Satan was "loosened"
during the Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation.

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard,
and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:
and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

But let me change the question AROUND to you...
if Satan was NOT bound at the Cross... show me some
Scripture that shows WHEN He was "bound"...
and WHEN he was "loosened".

/

 

[5thKingdom]

Can you show in Revelation 12 where the beginning of a thousand years(the beginning of the past 2000 years, assuming Amil) fit when satan is in the pit? If you have him being loosed in verse 17, which verse do you have him being initially bound?

BTW... this thread is (supposed to be) about the Final Harvest.
I do not mind talking to you about the "binding" and "loosening"
of Satan. But you should at least comment on the information
provided in the OP about the Final Harvest being shown in five (5)
different passages of Scripture. I am not aware of ANYBODY that
has ever HARMONIZED these passages about the Final Harvest
and it is one of the most important events in the Bible.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

Now, you must not imagine Satan is "bound" with physical chains
that are opened with a physical key or the "Bottomless Pit" is
some geographic location on earth. Instead, it is a CONDITION
of not being able to frustrate the Great Commission... when
JESUS (not Satan) has all the power in heaven and earth.
/

I see that almost 400 people have READ about the
FIVE (5) different perspectives the BIBLE provides
on the "Final Harvest" and ONLY DavidPT has had
the courage to even TRY to refute this "mystery".

This information has NEVER been revealed to the
church before... I wonder HOW almost 400 people
could see such HARMONY OF SCRIPTURE and
simply walk away.

Does nobody on this Christian Forum even CARE
about what the Bible teaches about the Final Harvest?

Does nobody on this Forum appreciate the depth
of perspective the BIBLE offers about this most
important event?

Am I speaking to CHRISTIANS out there?
What is the matter with you people?
Do you not CARE what the Bible says?

I find this (silence) absolutely amazing.

.

 

[keras]

Am I speaking to CHRISTIANS out there?
What is the matter with you people?
Do you not CARE what the Bible says?

I find this (silence) absolutely amazing.

Jim, We read your posts, but to members here of up to 10 years, like myself, you are just another 'flash in the pan', someone who comes here and treats us like we are children who need your special knowledge and be amazed and grateful for it.

Your attitude toward anyone who contradicts you is of scathing rebuke, which is not conducive to rational discussion.

I have intensively studied the Prophetic Word and I feel that I have an approximate idea of what God has planned for our future. My beliefs about this contradict most other posters here, including you.
I will go so far as to say that we are all wrong. Maybe some less than others, but no-one knows 100% of what will happen. The Book is sealed until the end. Daniel 12:9

So; we do care about what the prophesies tell us. A lot of Church people don't, to their discredit. The worst thing is to get an idea of what you think is meant and make a doctrine out of it.
Remember that teachers will be Judged more severely. James 3:1

 

[5thKingdom]

So; we do care about what the prophesies tell us. A lot of Church people don't, to their discredit. The worst thing is to get an idea of what you think is meant and make a doctrine out of it.
Remember that teachers will be Judged more severely. James 3:1

First, I appreciate your reply.

Jim, We read your posts, but to members here of up to 10 years, like myself, you are just another 'flash in the pan', someone who comes here and treats us like we are children who need your special knowledge and be amazed and grateful for it.

Actually, I do not expect anybody to agree with me... I just
don't think anyone can contradict what I say with Scripture.
I am more disappointed that people do not TRY to refute
what I post (as I don't expect them to agree). However,
if I could not refute a teaching from Scripture I would
probably be inclined to just not comment also. I did not
think about that when I posted.

Your attitude toward anyone who contradicts you is of scathing rebuke, which is not conducive to rational discussion.

Not so... if they try to rebuke me with Scripture.
However, if someone just expresses their "feelings" instead
or posting Scripture, then yes.. I do tend to have short patience
with such an approach. Not only do I view it as un-Biblical,
I view it as MOCKING GOD to think their "feelings" can
somehow substitute for Scripture AND it has always
been the custom of the church to refute or confirm
new doctrines from the Bible... not from "feelings".

Well... maybe you are right... when I think their view is so
un-Biblical or so shallow. I say this because I do have a problem
with your gospel since I think you have misunderstood spiritual
meanings with literal. We are WORLDS apart in our Gospels.


I have intensively studied the Prophetic Word and I feel that I have an approximate idea of what God has planned for our future. My beliefs about this contradict most other posters here, including you.
I will go so far as to say that we are all wrong. Maybe some less than others, but no-one knows 100% of what will happen. The Book is sealed until the end. Daniel 12:9

I have also intensively studied prophecy for almost 50 years...
but, of course, that means nothing because the Truth has always
been "revealed" and not learned. However, I have to disagree
with you about them all being wrong because (as you noted)
the Bible PROMISES (not just in Daniel but other places as well)
that the Last Saints "shall understand" and they shall PREACH
the Truth as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound". And
that is where I claim we are today.

Which is one of the reasons I am disappointed in the silence
my postings receive because I am ready-willing-and able
to PROVE my teachings from Scripture as PART of the
teachings of the Last Saints. I think I have already revealed
several important Truths never taught before, so the lack
of disagreement (from Scripture) is disappointing.

I do appreciate your comments. It indicates to me that you
are an honorable man and that is not only important but rare
these days. I will try to be much more gracious to you as I
dispute your teachings.

Jim
.

 

[keras]

However, I have to disagree with you about them all being wrong because (as you noted)
the Bible PROMISES (not just in Daniel but other places as well)
that the Last Saints "shall understand" and they shall PREACH
the Truth as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound". And
that is where I claim we are today.

Daniel 12:10...only the wise leaders will understand. Revised English Bible
I see this paralleled in Jeremiah 3:15, which will happen when we go to live in the holy Land. After the Sixth Seal event.

As for being at the Seventh Trumpet now, when did the first six Trumpets happen? Let alone the Sixth and Seventh Seals.
No: that idea places you into the category of those who are too scared to face what is to happen literally. I suppose that is why you Spiritualize them, another belief that I reject.
My axiom is; If a prophecy is able to be literally fulfilled, then it will be.

I will try to be much more gracious to you as I dispute your teachings.

Nice. Perhaps you would like to look at my website; www.logostelos.info Over 800 free articles mostly on the Prophetic Word.

 

[5thKingdom]

I see this paralleled in Jeremiah 3:15, which will happen when we go to live in the holy Land. After the Sixth Seal event. Nice. Perhaps you would like to look at my website; www.logostelos.info Over 800 free articles mostly on the Prophetic Word.

Daniel 12:10...only the wise leaders will understand. Revised English Bible

(KJV) Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

(LITV) Many shall be purified and made white and tested. But the wicked shall do wickedly. And not one of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

(YLT) Purify themselves, yea, make themselves white, yea, refined are many: and the wicked have done wickedly, and none of the wicked understand, and those acting wisely do understand;

The issue is not so much the wording of "wise leaders" or "wise"
or "those acting wisely".... since these all mean the same.

Rather, the issue is WHO are these "wise" and WHEN do they
"understand". Let's look at the WHEN first.

Now the CONTEXT is that it is at the "time-of-the-end"

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and
knowledge shall be increased.

Some people will argue that the "time-of-the-end" is the
entire New Testament period. However, Daniel 7:11-12 reveals
the end-time is the period AFTER the destruction of the Fourth Beast.
In a period specifically NAMED the "Season and Time". It's important
to notice this is AFTER the Fourth Beast was "given to the Burning
Flame"... which is the same event as the Revelation Beast being
"cast into the Lake-of-Fire" [Rev 20:10].

So that would establish the WHEN question about the "wise"
being able to understand the "sealed" mysteries. It would be
in the "time-of-the-end" or the "Season and Time" on earth
AFTER the Fourth Beast is cast into the "Burning Flame" or
the "Lake of Fire". Now let's look at the WHO question.


Mat 25:1-13
Then shall the [Great Tribulation] kingdom of heaven
[also shown as Daniel's Fourth Beast or the Revelation Beast]
be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth
[from the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" of Mat 13] to meet the bridegroom.[Jesus] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
They that were foolish took their lamps, [Gospels] and took no oil
[Holy Spirit] with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels [being
"indwelt"] with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold,
the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins
arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise,
Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered,
saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.[this proves the
parable/prophecy is NOT talking about the Christian Kingdom since
at no time during the Great Commission did the Saints REFUSE to
preach - and send people to some other unnamed people to find
their salvation] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came;
and they that were ready [the wise virgins] went in with him to the marriage: [in the Final Harvest] and the door was shut.

Getting back to the WHEN question again... clearly the people
called the "wise virgins" are the Last Saints on earth and clearly
the Final Harvest and the "Door was Shut" represent the period
of the "time-of-the-end" or the "Season and Time".

So the question of WHO is obviously the Last Saints... who are
living on earth when the Final Harvest occurs and the "marriage"
occurs.

Now here is the "key" to understanding.
The PEOPLE called the "ten virgins" in Matthew 25 are the
SAME PEOPLE called the "ten kings/horns" in Daniel 7 AND the
"ten kings/horns" in Daniel 7 and the "ten kings" in Dan 2:44.

And we know this ABSOLUTELY because in each case they are
the PEOPLE living on earth when the Lord Returns to establish
the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".

Dan 2:44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall
not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume
all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

The ten "virgins" of Matthew 25 are on earth during the Final Harvest
the ten "kings/horns" of Daniel 7 are living on earth when the Lord
destroys the Fourth Beast/Kingdom and Returns to establish the
Eternal Kingdom. The ten "kings/horns" of Revelation 17 are living
on earth when the Lord Destroys the Revelation Beast and then
establishes the Eternal Kingdom... and as we already saw (above)
the ten "kings" of Daniel 2:44 are living on earth when the Eternal
Kingdom is established.

So... to get back to the Original Question of WHO are the people
who "shall understand" the Truth about Daniel's prophecies that
remained "closed-up" and "sealed" to all previous saints... they
are the Last Saints - or the saved people within the "ten virgins"
of Matthew 25 and the "ten kings/horns" of BOTH Daniel 7 and
Revelation 17.

BTW: Jeremiah 3:15 is NOT talking about these people.
The context is entirely different than the people living on earth
AFTER the Fourth Beast/Revelation Beast is destroyed.

As for being at the Seventh Trumpet now, when did the first six Trumpets happen? Let alone the Sixth and Seventh Seals.
No: that idea places you into the category of those who are too scared to face what is to happen literally. I suppose that is why you Spiritualize them, another belief that I reject. My axiom is; If a prophecy is able to be literally fulfilled, then it will be.

I never said we are in the Seventh Trumpet... I said we are in the
"Season and Time" on earth when the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound".. the time when the Last Saints "shall understand" Daniel's mysteries [Dan 12] and the Last Saints are commanded to preach
these "sealed" mysteries as the Last Trumpet "begins to sound".

Clearly I am not in any category of "those who are too scared to
face what is to happen literally"... I hope this post is proof of that.
I would be willing to discuss with you WHEN and HOW the first six
Trumpets were fulfilled and the 6th and 7th Seals were fulfilled...
but this post is long enough - and that will have to be in another.

Finally... you axiom of prophecy being literal is fine unless the
CONTEXT shows otherwise and PROVIDED you understand that
many prophecies were meant to have a DUAL MEANING... so that
they have a literal fulfillment AND a spiritual (future) fulfillment.

This is enough for today.
I hope to discuss the other issues later.
And I hope you will provide SCRIPTURE to refute anything above
that you disagree with.

Jim
.

 

[keras]

I would be willing to discuss with you WHEN and HOW the first six Trumpets were fulfilled and the 6th and 7th Seals were fulfilled...

Ok.
I know history fairly well and I simply do not see anytime that the Sixth Seal happened. Or the Seventh and the first six Trumpets.
Do we agree that the first Five seals are open since 33 AD?

The scripture of 2 Peter 3:1-7, is an very informative prophecy.
It says how most will ignore or scoff at the warnings about another reset of civilization, similar in magnitude to Noahs Flood. I believe this world changer is very close to fulfilment now.
Over 100 graphically stated prophesies describe the great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath. THAT is what most concerns me; good people are unaware and unprepared for this dramatic event. Isaiah 24, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17, +

 

[Timtofly]

No one can agree with you, is your decision to make. I love to sit and watch infomercials. It is a distraction. No one can refute how good the product is.

Keep up the great work. Perhaps some others will enjoy all that hard work.

 

[5thKingdom]

Ok.
I know history fairly well and I simply do not see anytime that the Sixth Seal happened. Or the Seventh and the first six Trumpets.
Do we agree that the first Five seals are open since 33 AD?

The scripture of 2 Peter 3:1-7, is an very informative prophecy.
It says how most will ignore or scoff at the warnings about another reset of civilization, similar in magnitude to Noahs Flood. I believe this world changer is very close to fulfilment now.
Over 100 graphically stated prophesies describe the great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath. THAT is what most concerns me; good people are unaware and unprepared for this dramatic event. Isaiah 24, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17, +

 

[5thKingdom]

Ok.
I know history fairly well and I simply do not see anytime that the Sixth Seal happened. Or the Seventh and the first six Trumpets.
Do we agree that the first Five seals are open since 33 AD?

The scripture of 2 Peter 3:1-7, is an very informative prophecy.
It says how most will ignore or scoff at the warnings about another reset of civilization, similar in magnitude to Noahs Flood. I believe this world changer is very close to fulfilment now.
Over 100 graphically stated prophesies describe the great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath. THAT is what most concerns me; good people are unaware and unprepared for this dramatic event. Isaiah 24, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17, +

Ok, I am willing to talk about all the issues you raised (above)
but let's start with the Seven Trumpets and try to establish some
context. Obviously we cannot expect to understand the meaning
of passages when we do not understand the context.


(1) Can we agree that the Revelation Beast is also shown
as the Great Tribulation and Daniel's Fourth Beast? In other
words, the people living in the Revelation Beast are the same
people living in the Great Tribulation and the same people living
in Daniel's Fourth Beast. After all... in each case these are the
people living on earth when the Lord Returns. Can we agree
on that?


(2) Can we agree that the first four trumpets occur BEFORE
the start of the Great Tribulation and/or Revelation Beast at
the 1st woe and fifth Trumpet? That the fifth Trumpet was
the START of the Great Tribulation and Revelation Beast.
Can we agree on that?


Jim
.

 

[5thKingdom]

Ok.
THAT is what most concerns me; good people are unaware and unprepared for this dramatic event. Isaiah 24, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17, +

I do not think you need to be concerned with that because
Jesus has promised that He will lose NONE of His Sheep and
the Providence of God is in control of history and not the
decisions or desires of man. Just a comment on your
statement and NOT anything to do with our discussion
on the fulfillment of the Seven Trumpets.

.

 

[keras]

(1) Can we agree that the Revelation Beast is also shown
as the Great Tribulation and Daniel's Fourth Beast? In other
words, the people living in the Revelation Beast are the same
people living in the Great Tribulation and the same people living
in Daniel's Fourth Beast. After all... in each case these are the
people living on earth when the Lord Returns. Can we agree
on that?

I agree with this.
The people are referred to in Daniel 7:25, when the 'beast', The Anti-Christ, conquers them. As prophesied in Zechariah 14:1-2. The outcome of this conquest is described in Revelation 12:6-17

(2) Can we agree that the first four trumpets occur BEFORE
the start of the Great Tribulation and/or Revelation Beast at
the 1st woe and fifth Trumpet? That the fifth Trumpet was
the START of the Great Tribulation and Revelation Beast.
Can we agree on that?

This I do not agree with. The 7 Trumpets commence when the AC sits in the Temple soon after he conquers Jerusalem. Daniel 11:31, 2 Thess 2:4
You mis-read Revelation 9:1-11. In no way does the Fifth Trumpet commence the GT. It is another punishment upon those who have taken the Mark of the Beast.

I do not think you need to be concerned with that because
Jesus has promised that He will lose NONE of His Sheep and
the Providence of God is in control of history and not the
decisions or desires of man. Just a comment on your
statement and NOT anything to do with our discussion
on the fulfillment of the Seven Trumpets.

Even some of the righteous will die on the Lords Day of fiery wrath. Ezekiel 21:1-7
My task is to warn people about the Lords Day of wrath, when He will devastate the earth. We should know about it and be ready. At least know what to do on that Day.

 

[5thKingdom]

You mis-read Revelation 9:1-11. In no way does the Fifth Trumpet commence the GT. It is another punishment upon those who have taken the Mark of the Beast.

So you do not think that the 7th Trumpet is the Lord's Return?
And you do not think the 5th Trumpet is Satan being loosened
from the Pit?

What is happening in the 5th Trumpet?
What is happening in the 7th Trumpet?

.