The Father, Son, Holy Spirit = One

[datan]

how do you see what the Psalm 72 speaks about, about trinity? or do you think the trinity like the orthodox thinks three in one God? like some times they see them as the visitor of Abrham as three people?

the visitor of Abraham?

 

[prodromos]

how do you see what the Psalm 72 speaks about, about trinity? or do you think the trinity like the orthodox thinks three in one God? like some times they see them as the visitor of Abrham as three people?

the visitor of Abraham?

[bible]Genesis 18:1-16[/bible]

The Holy Trinity​

 

[GenemZ]

'Trinity' is not a biblical word pitch it!

Psssst! "Bible," is not a biblical word, either! Pitch it, too?

Simply put... Theological words were created to accomodate the realities that scholars had discovered in their studies.

Come to think of it, "Millennium" is not a biblical word, either. Nor, is "Rapture." Three pitches, and you're out?

Grace and peace..... GeneZ

 

[Maharg]

I've been looking at both sides of the argument and I can't really see a difference between what you are saying. I understand the Holy Spirit to be the Counsellor who Jesus said he would send to his disciples. I understand this spirit to be the equivalent of God/Jesus living in me, of having the essence of God within me, and guiding me to see the world through God's eyes and helping me to avoid all that is against God and His work in me and others. i don't really know what side of the argument this puts me on. I was never brought up in a Christian household, so my understanding comes from studying the Bible and studying the Bible at A-level, so I guess that I don't have the traditional background.

 

[GenemZ]

yeah! that's right guys, our God is Father, Son and Spirit, still He isn't 3, He's ONE!
Bless you all!

If God did not create angels, nor man, God would not have to be manifested as a Trinity. The Son is the manifestation of God that takes on the nature which communicates with us, finite creation. God was always as a Trinity (for he knows all things, and always knew he would create man and angels) he is by choice always to be the Trinity.

We need the Trinity, not God.

If the Son did not exist we could not know about God. We could see things move and change by God's power but we would not be able to know God.

God is omniscient. God is omnipresent. Could anyone stand back far enough from God to see God? Have a mind so unlimited to know Him as He knows Himself? Impossible!

For where ever you went to back off to get a view of God, there would be God! We can never see on our own God as being the Father! For he can not be limited to time and space. We could never stand back far enough to see God!

God willed to be a Trinity for our sakes. For he wants us to know Him. To see God as he is (on our own), we would have to die! We could no longer live. For we would have to cease to exist as a created being (finite) and become God (infinite) .... We could no longer be who we are. Only God can see God as God is in Himself! We would cease to exist and become God. No one can see God and live! We would cease to exist. Impossible to see God on our own!

"No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only ,who is at the Father's side, has made him known." John 1:18 niv

It says, the Son of God has made him known?

The Greek word used there, means that the Son interprets God to us! That the Son exegetes what God is and explains to us about God in a way we can relate to! John 1:18, says that no one (mere man) has seen God! But, that the Son has! Jesus Christ is God's interpreter of Himself to us. Jesus, being both fully human, and fully God, was able to explain God to us, and does.

"No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father." John 6:46 niv

Jesus Christ is God being us, and being Himself. He is God explaining Himself to us by the means of becoming as one of us. Without such a thing we could not truly know vital things about what God is.

"If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:7 niv

If there were never man and angels created? There would be no need for the Trinity of God! There would be no need to explain Himself to finite creation!

If God were not a Trinity, and he still created us..... we would all be oblivious to God's existance. We could not know who God is. If a mountain appeared suddenly in our back yard, we would be apathetic towards it and see it as just another thing that exists without giving pause. We would be dull to anything happening. An existance of total ignorance. We would all be spiritual morons. Oblivious to the nature and character of God. We would not have learned to question existance. "Why are we here?" We simply are, and it would not be questioned. Who would ask why? For, God works in all men's hearts.

Without the Son he could not reveal Himself.

"Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" John 14:9 niv

God is a Trinity for our sakes.

God is God. The Deity of Christ is God! Not less than God. The Deity of the Holy Spirit is God! Not less than God. God is omnipresent! Therefore, God can not separate from God! God is omniscient! Therefore, God can not have a thought without God always knowing all thoughts as well! In other words, God can not be separated from God! God is one!

But, God can manifest Himself in three seperate manifestations that he chose to be immutable! He will never change this! So he will always be a Trinity. The Son will always be the one communicating God to creation. The Holy Spirit will always be the one revealing God's power to creation. All so we can be made able to "see," the unseeable! But only in a way we can relate to!

"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being , sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."
Hebrews 1:3 niv

Like I said... If God deceided not to create man, nor angels... God would have no need to be a Trinity. He could be as the Father is, alone. God alone. That is why Jesus said...

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone." Mark 10:18 niv

God can not be tempted. Jesus could be. Only God alone is good. So, we are never to confuse the humanity of Christ for the Deity of Christ! God CHOSE to become the Trinity!

Jesus was faithful to God's plan 100%. Adam failed. What Adam took us into (the fall) by disobedience, Jesus reversed, and has taken us out of by his obedience to the Father's will. God could not have died in our place. God can not die. Humanity only could have. Yet, Jesus possesses Deity. His Deity needed to be placed in neutral while here on earth as to totally become one of us, yet without sin. God not only interprets Himself to us via the Son, He has shown to us that He identifies with us 100%. For Jesus was tempted in every way, yet remained without sin!

We can trust Christ to know us in every situation... all but when we are in a state of sin. Sinning he can not identify with. That is why we need to recover fellowship and get back into the power of the Holy Spirit (grace) and continue on learning more truth (the mind of Christ) so we can become transformed into the likeness of God's Son.

"If we confess (admit) our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

God became as one of us, to make us like one of Him!

"And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:18 niv

God wants to know Him so well, that He will make us partakers of His Divine nature! God loves God, so much. That He wants to share Himself with all those He loves. For He knows that to know Him is to be in total happiness and joy!

That is why God hates false doctrine. We can not become transformed by what is false! It makes God into something cheap. Like saying He will save us, yet He can lose us if we do something wrong after we are saved. That makes God into a fickled woman...a fickled conceited woman. "You don't do as I say! Good riddence!" (that's a loving parent?)

We must realize that God has called us into something not of human origin. That His love is infinite towards those who believed in the Son.

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:37 -40 niv

As there is a Trinity, someday, there will be a Bride added to that family!

Think about that one!

Grace in peace, GeneZ

 

[Starstreak M86]

1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

What is so hard to comprehend about 1Tim 2:5? One God.... one mediator.....
Who is the mediator? The man, Christ Jesus! and now for the 64 dollor question? Is God the mediator to himself? Or is Christ Jesus the mediator between God (where scripture says there is one God) and man?
example: My father and I.... Let's say my father is out of town and you wanted me to ask him a question for you about a business proposition and the only way for you to able to find out any information would be through me, his son? Should I go on any further with this? Get the simple picture? Am I my father? Is my father me? I am the only mediator between my one and only father who I am one with. I could say that I and my father are one... that doesn't mean I and my father are the same person. Don't get the last part confused with God as a person.

If you believe the scripture is true, then you must subordinate all other sources to second place! The simple reading of the scriptures reveals that the Trinity is nowhere to be found in scripture but only in man's imaginations and speculations.

Did the thought ever occur to you that Jesus is GODMan?

Both Man and God? Otherwise, how could a HUMAN be a mediator? Moses was not a mediator between the Jews and God, what make Christ any different? If He is not God, how can He be divine? (divinity means Godhood).

Jesus had two natures. Godly and Manly. Problem solved.

 

[Starstreak M86]

The Bible says the FATHER is the ONLY true God and you say, "no, the Bible CLEARLY says the SON is God, but the Father and the son ARE one God."

Where does the Bible say that? Will you please go fetch the verse that says that only the FATHER is God?

And no, the term "God" does not automatically = The Father. In Hebrew, the term used for "God" is "Elohim", which is plural, "God" is a singular English term that is that is a misrepresentation of "Elohim". Otherwised they would have said "El". Not to mention that YHVH can be plural as well.

P.S.
God the Father is referred to as "Adonai", "Abba", or "El". The term "God" is always plural, "Elohim". Did you also know that "Elohim" is FEMININE plural? The RUACH HA KODESH "Holy Spirit" is femine, because that is a feminine term. She is also referred to as "the Spirt of Wisdom" ("Chokmah" in Hebrew, "Sophia" in Greek).

Yes, GOD IS ONE. One being, NOT one person. You are one being, are you only a physical body with no soul or mind? Are your mind and soul nothing more than a force or image of your physical self? Are they not personhoods in and of themselves while still being YOU at the same time?

 

[Starstreak M86]

Genez,
Good points, bro!

God has ALWAYS been a Trinity, even in the Old Testament. Even though many Jews have become Unitarian, it is apparent that most or all of the Jewish writers of the Old and New Testament were Trinitarian.

Jesus isn't called "Yahweh Imann'uel" for nothing!

 

[Mayerpod]

Understanding that The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are one entity offers me so much relief. I am just learning about Jesus but I have believed in God my whole life. I've felt closer to God than Jesus because He has been with me forever.

Knowing that God and Jesus are one is calming because now I don't consider Jesus a stranger in my studies of him.... I do want to know who The Holy Spirit is but I am sure someone has answered this already so I will search older threads.

 

[Starstreak M86]

Knowing that God and Jesus are one is calming because now I don't consider Jesus a stranger in my studies of him.... I do want to know who The Holy Spirit is but I am sure someone has answered this already so I will search older threads.

In my opinion, the Holy Spirit has a sort of "God the Mother" role. Ephesians 3:15 says that God is like a family, so if Jesus has a Father, then He must have a Mother.

 

[GenemZ]

In my opinion, the Holy Spirit has a sort of "God the Mother" role. Ephesians 3:15 says that God is like a family, so if Jesus has a Father, then He must have a Mother.

God has no mother. God was never born, nor created...

Yet! Man was created male and female in God's image. The Holy Spirit is the feminine side of God. That is, when a feminine side is to be expressed towards creation.

The Church is Eternally indwelled by the Holy Spirit. We and the Spirit will always be one in our sinless resurrection body. What the Spirit does, we are doing.

"The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life." Revelation 22:17 niv

As read there, the Bride and the Spirit are one in expression! The Holy Spirit is the feminine side of God. The Bride of Christ. Yet, The Holy Spirit is not always soft and responsive!

"Samson went down to Timnah together with his father and mother. As they approached the vineyards of Timnah, suddenly a young lion came roaring toward him. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat. But he told neither his father nor his mother what he had done." Judges 14:5-6 niv

Mothers who needs to protect her young have been known to be fierce fighters against an attacker. More fierce than simply protecting themselves.

The Holy Spirit adores Jesus Christ. The Spirit is to glorify Christ in us, not ourselves. We will love being one with the Holy Spirit once we are in our glorious resurrection bodies. Excitement would not be a word good enough to define what it will be like.

We will never become bored with being amazed. Never tired and emotionally drained from loving the Lord with great celebration. We will be like children that never need to sleep who are constantly caused to be in a state of awe, yet fully stabilized at the same time. Never emotionally erractic (as children can be).

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[Starstreak M86]

Genez,
I never said that God has a mother. God has no father either. Yes, but we do!

I'm simply saying that the members of the Godhead take on roles, such as Father, Mother, Son, etc. Do you actually believe that God the Father is a "male"? Or is it just a role? To say that God the Father is the "Father" of Christ implies that Jesus was created, IF you read it literally. But I think what the Scriptures were getting at is that God the Father takes on the role of Father, not that Jesus actually had a beginning.

Remember, both genders were created in God's (the Godhead, not just the Father) image (Genesis 1:27), and Ephesians 3:15 says that God is a Family. No family consists of only a Father and a Son.

So obviously, God is both masculine and feminine, which the many of the Church fathers agreed with.

 

[GenemZ]

Genez,
I never said that God has a mother. God has no father either. Yes, but we do!

You may have not intended to say that. But your wording indicates that is what you believe.

For you said the following...

In my opinion, the Holy Spirit has a sort of "God the Mother" role. Ephesians 3:15 says that God is like a family, so if Jesus has a Father, then He must have a Mother.

I realize now, that its not what you intended to say, But, that's all I had to go by.

I'm simply saying that the members of the Godhead take on roles, such as Father, Mother, Son, etc. Do you actually believe that God the Father is a "male"? Or is it just a role? To say that God the Father is the "Father" of Christ implies that Jesus was created, IF you read it literally. But I think what the Scriptures were getting at is that God the Father takes on the role of Father, not that Jesus actually had a beginning.

Man was created in God's image. So, the Father is a masculine side of God. So is the Son. Yet, it seems when the feminine side is to be expressed by God, it will originate with the Holy Spirit. But, like I showed you, the Holy Spirit can be fierce and violent when need be!

And, Jesus (humanity) did have a beginning. He was born. He was called the son of David. Its the Christ (Deity) that is Eternal.

Remember, both genders were created in God's (the Godhead, not just the Father) image (Genesis 1:27), and Ephesians 3:15 says that God is a Family. No family consists of only a Father and a Son.

We both said the same thing.

So obviously, God is both masculine and feminine, which the many of the Church fathers agreed with.

God has a feminine side, but he is never effeminate. Big difference.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[Starstreak M86]

You may have not intended to say that. But your wording indicates that is what you believe.

For you said the following...




I realize now, that its not what you intended to say, But, that's all I had to go by.

Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Man was created in God's image. So, the Father is a masculine side of God. So is the Son. Yet, it seems when the feminine side is to be expressed by God, it will originate with the Holy Spirit. But, like I showed you, the Holy Spirit can be fierce and violent when need be!

Oh yes! Who ever said that women were all nuturing and no wrath?

And, Jesus (humanity) did have a beginning. He was born. He was called the son of David. Its the Christ (Deity) that is Eternal.

I agree.

We both said the same thing.

God has a feminine side, but he is never effeminate. Big difference.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

I could agree. Or, some people may view it that God has a masculine side, but is not emasculate. It could go both ways.

I think it is both, since God has no real "gender".

 

[GenemZ]

I think it is both, since God has no real "gender".

Deity transcends gender. Deity invented gender. Yet, God's love transcends gender.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[Starstreak M86]

Deity transcends gender. Deity invented gender. Yet, God's love transcends gender.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

This is my view of the Godhead (remember this is figurative, not literal)

See, it works perfectly with the Trinity!

God Bless,
M86

 

[Mayerpod]

I have another question...

God and Jesus are ONE so why does Jesus say that only his Father can do certain things? (Such as the part in Matthew where Jesus says it is not for him to decide who sits beside him in the Kingdom of Heaven but for God) I'm so confused about this....

 

[johnd]

The nature of God is easier to comprehend when we take God at his word.

This is similar to how he revealed it:

Person A. is Jones. Person B. is Jones. Person c. is Jones. There is one Jones.

Conclusion: the Joneses are a family. This is a compound unity we can easily grasp.

The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. There is one God.

Conclusion: God is a compound unity of three coequal, coexistent persons.

The Bible teaches that:


The Father is God (Deuteronomy 32:6, Isaiah 63:16, 1 Corinthians 1:3, 2 Corinthians 1:2, Philippians 1:2, Colossians 1:2, and so on).

The Son is God (John 1:1 & 14, John 8:58 / Exodus 3:14-15, John 1:3 / Colossians 1:15 / Isaiah 44:24 / Genesis 1:1, Colossians 2:9 and so on).

The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4 & 9, Acts 13:2, 2 Corinthians 3:17-18 and so on).

God is one (Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 43:10-11, Isaiah 44:6 & 8, Isaiah 45:5-6, Isaiah 46:9-10).

The Son is distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit in that he was WITH God in the beginning (John 1:1) while at the same time being himself God (same verse).

And the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father and the Son since both Father and Son SEND him into the world (John 14:26, John 15:26). One comes. One does not send one’s self.

The Triune nature of God is no harder to accept than a family of three is.

Regards.

 

[johnd]

Oh, and the singular pronoun frap is easily answered:

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Each person is fully God and can speak fully for God.

The Bible also mentions a plurality of persons in the Godhead in several places (Genesis 1:26, Genesis 11:7, Isaiah 6:8, John 14:23, John 17:11 & 21-22).

This is not to mention the thousands of times the plural word (elohim) for God is used in the Old Testament.

Regards,

 

[orthodoxos]

We should know that we know nothing. It is like a group of pots trying to figure out the potmaker when it is impossible for them to figure out the dirt they made out of.

In the Holy Orthodoxy we look at the God in the Apophatic way, the way of negation. We know what God is not, rather than What God is. You have Thomas of Aquino to thank for this realistic approach to "God viewing".

We will NEVER know what God is. Angels do not know. Do not waste time.

Glory to the Most Holy Trinity, now and ever and unto the all ages.

God bless.