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The false doctrine of the immortality of the soul.

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by reddogs, Jan 23, 2007.

  1. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    While speaking to His disciples about Lazarus, Jesus said:

    Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, if he sleep he shall do well. Howbeit, Jesus spoke of his death; but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. John 11:11-14

    The disciples were confused and thought Christ meant natural sleep, but He meant the sleep of death.
    On His arrival Jesus found that Lazarus had already been four days in the tomb. John 11:17

    While conversing with Martha, He tried to comfort her by saying,
    'Thy brother shall rise again.' Martha saith unto him, 'I know that He shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.' John 11:23,24

    Martha knew that life would be restored to Lazarus only in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus demonstrated through the resurrection of Lazarus that He was the One who could resurrect the dead according to His claim:

    I am the resurrection and the life. John 11:25

    The Scriptures in both Old and New Testaments are very clear on this issue. Life to the dead will be restored in the resurrection on the last day. (1 Corinthians 15:51-55, Job 19:25-26; Job 14:10-15; Psalm 17:15; Daniel 12:13) There will be separate resurrections for the righteous and for the wicked. John 5:28-29 states:

    Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation.
    For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.1 Thessalonians 4:16 NKJV

    But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:5 NKJV

    That same voice that raised Lazarus from the grave will be heard on that last day of this world's history, calling forth those who have slept in the graves of the earth. Christ will recreate the righteous dead, or "dead in Christ", and breathe into them the breath of eternal life, and they shall enter Heaven.

    Revelation 20:6:
    Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.

    When Jesus called Lazarus from the tomb,
    ...he cried with a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth'. John 11:43

    That voice raised dead Lazarus to life. "He that was dead came forth", and Jesus said:
    Loose him, and let him go. John 11:44

    Nothing at all is stated about what transpired during those four days in which Lazarus was dead. Christ made no statement, neither did Martha or even Lazarus himself. The fact, of course, is that there was nothing to report about what happened after he died, no bright lights or gentle clouds or about the realm of the dead, simply because he had experienced the sleep of death which is a state of absolute silence and oblivion.

    One of the most deceptive doctrines of the Evil one is the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. This doctrine more than any other opens the door to spurious views regarding the afterlife, and it has permeated the religious world with its false promises and claims. Moreover, it offers promises of multiple choices that can be made in terms of one’s salvation and multiple chances in terms of qualifying for salvation. Spiritism, reincarnation and necromancy (the worship and consulting of the dead) are only possible in the light of this doctrine. The Word of God is very clear on this issue. None of these doctrines and practices were to be tolerated by the people of God because they were all rooted in a false perception of death.

    Most religions in the world today teach that death is the transition of one state of consciousness to another state of consciousness. They propose that physical man is subject to death, but that the "soul" continues to live, and is indeed immortal. According to this doctrine, the soul is a separate entity, and resides in the body of the living. To make matters even more confusing, most Christian denominations believe that this dichotomy is to be found only in humans, and that animals do not have souls.
    The text of Genesis 2:7 clearly states that God breathed into the formed man the "breath of life" and man became a living soul. He did not receive a living soul; he became one. The New King James Bible states that "man became a living being". Of the many references to soul and spirit in the Bible, never once is either the soul or the Spirit declared to be immortal, imperishable or eternal. Indeed only God has immortality (1 Timothy 1:17; 6:16).

    The doctrine of the immortality of the soul is a doctrine of false hope which negates the message of death. Moreover, if man continues to live, albeit in an altered state, then there is no need for a Saviour, or indeed the atoning death of Christ. Christ died to restore life to those who had forfeited it through sin.Job correlates the usage of breath and the spirit, saying:

    All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils. Job 27:3

    Moses reported that the breath of life was in Adam’s nostrils, whereas Job refers to both terms and says that the spirit of the Lord is “in my nostrils.” Hence, the Hebrew terms of "neshamah" and "rûach" are used here in a similar context - namely life itself! According to the Scriptures, all living creatures received life in the same way from God, and are subject to the same fate.

    And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field . . . wherein is the breath of life. Genesis 2:19; 7:15

    Both man and beast ...have all one breath, so that a man hath no preeminence above the beast. Ecclesiastes 3:19

    Since man and beast have one breath, they also die the same way.

    For that which befalleth the sons of men, befalleth beasts; ... as the one dieth, so dieth the other. Ecclesiastes 3:19.

    Both man and animals were created from dust. So, when they die they then return again to dust; just the reverse of creation.

    ...for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:19

    The second thing which happens when a man dies, is that the spirit, or breath of life, returns to God;

    ...and the spirit shall return unto God, who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

    Man was never meant to die, but death came into the world as a consequence of sin.

    For the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23

    As death is non-life, it merely means that God takes the life ("rûach" spirit, breath) that He granted on condition of obedience back and man ceases to live. It is the life that was given that returns to God, and not a transformed version of man in the form a spirit being. When God said that man would "surely die" (Genesis 2:17) if he transgressed God's requirements, He meant that man would cease to live, and would return to dust.

    Far from being a conscious state, death is thus the ultimate state of non-being or unconsciousness, and is described as such in the Scriptures.

    His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4

    For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything. Ecclesiastes 9:5

    The dead are oblivious to what is happening on earth they know nothing.

    Also their love, and their hatred and their envy is now perished. Ecclesiastes 9:6

    For in death there is no remembrance of You; in the grave who will give you thanks? Psalm 6:5

    So their feelings perish also.
    The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115: 17

    This state of unconsciousness is equated with sleep. Job says,

    So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more; they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:12

    Man lies in the sleep of death until the resurrection at the end of time. Then, and only then, will he awake and be raised out of sleep.
     
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  2. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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  3. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    I research and read many sermons, writings, and resources and as the Spirit guides me pull those pieces, sections, paragraphs, or large parts of Gods truth that I find....I use many Adventist writings but I have found as soon as some Adventist recognize the writer they close their minds and hearts to understanding. So If I use them I try to be true to their message but pull it from scripture which makes it doubly hard. Someday when God grants me the spiritual gift of speaking and writing I may be able be used as a instrument for understanding, but until then its research, learn, keep that which is true and gives understanding of Gods truth.

    Red

    (One favor, can you fix the title of the thread, I woke up at 3:00 am EST and was a little groggy)
    It should read "The false doctrine of the immortality of the soul. "
     
  4. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Fixed the title for you.
     
  5. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    Thank you Tall73, greatly appreciated...

    Red
     
  6. g85

    g85 Guest

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    This is a great topic, enjoyed reading that... I believe there are so many problems when ppl get this wrong! ...Also, I find its one of the most difficult topics to explain to someone who think death is a state of conciousness... EVEN if you are showing them the truth with the Bible... (I studied a lot about the greek way of thinking and the jews, its so obvious that today ppl STILL cant get rid of the greek way of thinking on this topic)... Its sad!
     
  7. TrustAndObey

    TrustAndObey Guest

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    The state of the dead is what got me really interested in finding out what Adventists believe. I remember when my mother-in-law told me that my brother-in-law (35, died of a brain tumor) was "sleeping" at his funeral. I hadn't heard that way of thinking before, and at first I was mortified.

    Then it hit me....why would she WANT to believe that if it wasn't scripturally accurate? There's no way she would prefer him sleeping over rejoicing in heaven with Jesus. THAT one fact is what made me want to dig deeper.

    When I read the Bible I was totally FLOORED because to me it's obvious in the Bible that we sleep until we are resurrected.

    Another great study Reddog...you really can't refute the scriptural evidence, but amazingly most do.
     
  8. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    The Bible teaches that there are only two possible destinations for each of us, life or death.

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

    God so loved us that Jesus came to this earth to die the death that we deserve so that we could receive the gift of eternal life. Eternal life, or immortality, is a gift to those who choose to receive Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. Jesus is our only hope of immortality. The Doctrine of an "Immortal Soul" is not found in the Bible. Here are the verses where immortal is found in the Bible:

    "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen." 1 Timothy 1:17

    "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:" Romans 2:7


    "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." 1 Corinthians 15:53

    "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." 1 Corinthians 15:54


    "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." 1 Timothy 6:16

    "But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:" 2 Timothy 1:10


    All six references to immortality are either a description of God or describe a gift that is given to man from God, immortality is not an inherant aspect of man.

    The Bible teaches that man is mortal but by "patient continuance in well doing", through the power and grace of Jesus Christ we are to seek for immortality which will be given to us when Jesus comes back the second time. Below are Bible verses that show that man is mortal.

    "Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?" Job 4:17

    "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." Romans 6:12

    "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Romans 8:11

    "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" 1 Corinthians 15:52-55

    "For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh." 2 Corinthians 4:11

    So our "mortal flesh" will "be changed" when Jesus returns in the cloud of angels, with trumpets anouncing his coming and every eye will see him.

    Here is good study I came across from a non-SDA ...​
    "..in the entire Bible, there is not a single verse that records anything to the affect that "everyone has eternal life; it's only a matter of where each will spend it." Yet this is what most of the church today believes.

    The same can be said of words like "immortality." This word appears five times in the Bible, and in each one, it is said only of God or of the righteous.

    Rom 2:6-7—"[God] will render to each person according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life..."

    1 Cor 15:53—"For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."

    1 Tim 6:15-16—"He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality..."

    Contrary, to popular opinion, the Bible never says that all people are born with an immortal soul. It says instead that only God has immortality, and He blesses whom He chooses with the gift of eternal life. The concept of the immortal soul is nowhere found in the Bible. According to Edward Fudge, William Robert West, and others, the belief is of pagan origin (accredited to many ancient teachers, especially Plato), and it worked itself into Christian theology by way of many of our "church forefathers," who knew more of the teachings of Plato than they did of the teachings of Christ and were only partly converted."..HELL: Eternal Torment or Complete Annihilation?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  9. Lebesgue

    Lebesgue Senior Member

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    I am an Ex-SDA and I don't agree with this at all.

    I believe that when you die in Y'shua your soul goes to be with Him, awaiting His return when He will reunite it with a new, glorified body.

    Pre-resurrection I'm not sure about what the state of the dead was but Y'shua changed things when He died on the Cross and rose again. He said IF we believe in Him we will NEVER die.

    For those who do not die in Y'shua I don't know and don't want to find out.

    Shalom,

    Lebesgue
     
  10. RND

    RND Senior Veteran

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    Do you have any scripture that points this out conclusively?

    You aren't too sure what happens when you die before the ressurection but you believe you go to heaven? Shouldn't you have some sort of belief based on what the Bible says?

    So basically what you're saying is that your feelings dictate your belief system? That seems typical actually.
     
  11. Lebesgue

    Lebesgue Senior Member

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    Ultimately, does it REALLY matter? IF we die in Him, He is the next One we see anyway.

    Shalom,

    Lebesgue
     
  12. RND

    RND Senior Veteran

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    yeah, ultimately I think it does matter because it shows a willingness to accept the false doctrines of paganism (which is where the immortal soul doctrine came from) and dismiss the comforting words and promises of the Bible and God's word.

    I'll assume that because you didn't address any of my questions you are comfortable having your beliefs rooted in feelings insted of facts.
     
  13. Lebesgue

    Lebesgue Senior Member

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    I suppose we can agree to disagree. I am not basing my beliefs on paganism but the VERY WORDS of Messiah Y'shua Himself.

    Like when He said to the thief on the cross next to Him that accept Him as Saviour, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in Paradise". Y'shua said what He meant and meant what He said. Y'shua also said those who believe on Him will NEVER die.

    I'm not saying there is inherent immortality of the soul. What I believe is that when one accepts Y'shua and is born again, Y'shua makes their soul immortal. It is ONLY because of Y'shua that the souls of those who die in Him live on after death.

    Shalom,

    Lebesgue
     
  14. RND

    RND Senior Veteran

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    I've never understood that one really. If the thief whent to Heaven right after he died, where did Jesus go?

    That's wonderful to believe but do you suppose it might be handy to have some scripture that confirms the points you believe in?
     
  15. Jimlarmore

    Jimlarmore Senior Veteran

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    You need to base your belief on scripture my friend. When Jesus told Martha that those who believed in Him would never die , He didn't mean that when they took their last breath that they went to another plain of existence, please read John 11:11. Jesus was speaking of real death when He said this to Martha . This death will come on the wicked at the end of the sin problem when God burns them up just outside of the holy City. Until that time those who are in their graves righteous or wicked are asleep according to the Bible. John 5:28 tells us that a day would come when all that are in their graves would hear His voice and come forth, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame.

    If they were already in heaven it wouldn't make sense that they would hear his voice and come forth. They would have already come forth at death. This is a lie of satan to deceive us brother. Read and study your Bible on this.
    Look at this website and read these articles:
    http://www.amazingfacts.org/FreeStuff/OnlineLibrary/tabid/106/tid/9/Default.aspx

    God Bless
    Jim Larmore
     
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