The Falling Away

throughfiierytrial

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The Bible explains it for us. I prefer to stick with the scriptural explanation instead of the 21st century Hollywood Fantasy Explanation that only comes when we ignore the scriptural precedent.

There have been multiple “day of the lord” events recorded for us in scripture.

In all previous Day of the Lord events that were fulfilled as the Judgement of God upon Nations, using human armies as His agents, the language used is the same; Sun Darkening, Stars falling, earth splitting, mountains melting, universe collapsing, God riding a cloud, wielding His sword, etc etc....

It is only from the later generations, removed from the genre of Jewish apocalyptic literature, that we find the false, over literalization of such language that was used time and again by the Prophets of God in metaphoric ways to describe the fall of a nation.

The best way to understand apocalyptic writing is to study the many comings of God during the Old Testament times and see how that language is used in past situations. Once we see the way the prophets spoke of God's comings down during the Old Testament times, we are better equipped to think about how God comes all throughout history and even at the end of time. Study the following comings of God in history and think about the way in which the prophets use familiar doom language in each case:

God Comes in a Cloud Against Ancient Egypt - 700s BC
Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)


God Comes to End Saul's Kingdom - 1000 BC
Then the earth shook and quaked, the foundations of heaven were trembling and were shaken, because He was angry. Smoke went up out of His nostrils, fire from His mouth devoured; coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down with thick darkness under His feet. And He rode on a cherub and flew; And He appeared on the wings of the wind. And He made darkness canopies around Him, a mass of waters, thick clouds of the sky. From the brightness before Him coals of fire were kindled. The LORD thundered from heaven, and the Most High uttered His voice. And He sent out arrows, and scattered them, Lightning, and routed them. Then the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were laid bare by the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of His nostrils. (2 Sam 22:8-16)


God Comes to Judge Nineveh - 600s BC
The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries, and He reserves wrath for His enemies...In whirlwind and storm is His way, and clouds are the dust beneath His feet. He rebukes the sea and makes it dry; He dries up all the rivers. Bashan and Carmel wither; The blossoms of Lebanon wither. Mountains quake because of Him and the hills dissolve; Indeed the earth is upheaved by His presence, the world and all the inhabitants in it. (Nahum 1:2-5)


God Comes to Judge Egypt in the Time of Nebuchadnezzar - 600s BC
The day is near, even the day of the LORD is near; It will be a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations. A sword will come upon Egypt, and anguish will be in Ethiopia; When the slain fall in Egypt...And they will know that I am the LORD, when I set a fire in Egypt...I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. He and his people with him, the most ruthless of the nations, will be brought in to destroy the land; and they will draw their swords against Egypt and fill the land with the slain. (Ezekiel 30:3-4,8, 10-11)


God Comes to Judge Israel at the Time of the Exile - 500s BC
As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)


God Comes To Judge Ancient Babylon Using the Medes - 500s BC
Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty! Therefore all hands will be feeble, and every human heart will melt, and they will be dismayed. Pangs and agony will seize them; they will be in anguish like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at one another; their faces will be aflame. See, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the earth a desolation, and to destroy its sinners from it. For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity...Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the LORD of hosts in the day of his fierce anger. Like a hunted gazelle, or like sheep with no one to gather them, all will turn to their own people, and all will flee to their own lands. Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered, and their wives ravished. See, I am stirring up the Medes against them, who have no regard for silver and do not delight in gold. Their bows will slaughter the young men; they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not pity children. And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pride of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them. (Isaiah 13:6-11, 13,15-19)


God Comes During the Maccabean Period
For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

As we see from this brief survey of the cloud comings of God in history, they all follow a similar pattern, nature, and experience: trumpets, clouds, darkening of the Sun, Moon and constellations, shaking of earth's foundations, great tribulation and distress, God's coming down with his armies. The apocalyptic language is graphic, filled with doom, and repeated at each of God's comings.

These are just a few examples of the Father's Old-Testament comings, but there are many others: Yahweh came down and shot arrows at Saul and his armies, shaking the earth's foundations and the heavens at that time (2 Sam 22:8-16); Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30), and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon's King Nebuchadnezzar (Ez 32:1-16). The Father entered into judgments with Egypt and Assyria in a spectacular coming in Isaiah 31. Habakkuk's depiction of Jehovah's coming at Mt. Sinai is nothing less than apocalyptic (Hab 3:3-16). Were any of these OT comings visual, physical/literal appearances of Yahweh as the prophets describe in metaphorical prophetic language? Of course not (Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12)--the Hebrews understood that no human could ever see Yahweh and live (Exodus 33:20).

Importantly, these comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matthew 16:27-28; Luke 9:26; Matthew 24:33-34). As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation. Jesus Christ, the Lord of heaven and earth, came in the glory of the Father and did so in the lifetimes of the apostles, exactly as he promised (Matthew 16:27-28; Matthew 24:33-34).

He made specific Promises to them that He did not fail to fulfill. He did not Lie to them.




Again, and I know it's largely unpopular here, I tend to let scripture interpret itself instead of using CNN, FOX News, and Tik Tock.....

2 Timothy 3 Begins with:
But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come

When are the Last Days?
Scripture continually testifies they were in the 1st century:
The writer of Hebrews infallibly declares they were underway during Christ's Earthly ministry:
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; Hebrews 1:1-3

Peter Infallibly declared that Joel's "Last Days " prophesy was being fulfilled in front of his very eyes:
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.

(Acts 2:16-17)

Abd Paul Infallibly declares to his flocks that the ends of the ages had come upon THEM:

Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. (1 Corinthians 10:11)

If you are looking for Apostolic confirmation that the prophesied falling away took place, look no further that the Book of Jude, which records the coming to pass of the prophesy.

We are to believe what the Bible teaches about these things, and not invent new meanings to suit our 21st century Goggles because it feels better somehow.
This post is exasperating! I am certainly not a holder to movies...don't watch them and certainly not a CNN fan! I let the Word stand for itself and read in context...all the prophecies agree on end times and you fail to see this. I would quote you all the Scriptures which speak of end times in the same language however you would explain it all away.
The quotations you have are not new to me and they depict God's mighty wrath and are prophecy at the same time. The Psalms...many, many are both about David AND are prophecy of Christ. You surely see this but are not able to see it in the other Prophets...judging by your quotations.
The Bible is meant to be understood by both the simple and the wise...some think themselves wiser than God's wisdom however...I Corinthians 1:18-25 pertains to your thinking I am afraid.
Also the very fact that you depict or interpret my post as modern speaks volumes about how little you understand my view...and that inability speaks volumes alone.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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In ancient Greece, Homosexuality was not only tolerated, it was REQUIRED, whether you wanted to participate or not.
Homosexuality in ancient Greece - Wikipedia
Far less moral than today's views of mere acceptance..
You are speaking here about ancient Greece, its society? We are speaking of within the churches...worldwide today...the Christian churches...I am certain those true to their faith did not acquiesce or participate in the REQUIRED practice of homosexuality even in ancient Greece which was probably pagan in nature anyway...remember Daniel???
I believe it was also the practice in ancient Greece to throw their live babies in what amounted to but human dumps...appalling to consider!
 
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parousia70

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This post is exasperating!

If you feel exasperated, I suppose.

I would quote you all the Scriptures which speak of end times in the same language however you would explain it all away.

That's the POINT!
The point IS that they use the same language!
The point ALSO is that we have no scriptural instruction to interpret that same language IN POLAR OPPOSITE FASHION, when it is used in theNT for the "end times" than for how it is used for ALL previous OT Judgment comings of Jehovah.

If there were, you could demonstrate it.

Also the very fact that you depict or interpret my post as modern speaks volumes about how little you understand my view...and that inability speaks volumes alone.

Believing that Biblical language of "The Sun Shall be darkened, Moon shall not give its light, the constellations shall go dark, stars of heaven shall fall, heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll, burned with fire, etc, etc, etc"... are LITERAL and GLOBAL is indeed a MODERN invention not rooted in the set scriptural precedent, as I have plainly demonstrated, and you have thus far failed to refute, which must be exasperating for you.

You asked me how I explained Matthew 24:29-30.
I showed you that the Bible itself explains it, and we have no instruction to apply a polar opposite interpretation to this language in Matthew than is applied to the same language when we find it in the OT.

The challenge is actually for you to demonstrate where the bible teaches you to do so.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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1)Peter wrote this somewhere around 65-68 AD, Some 35+ years after Jesus said "watch"... 40 years was the average lifespan in the first century, so of course Peter would have the need to comfort his flocks who were no doubt saying "where is the promise of His coming", as they had already waited most of a lifetime!
It wasn't believers who would ask "where is the promise of His coming", it's scoffers. You need to read the passage (2 Peter 3:3-4) more carefully.

I see no reason in this passage to extend it to mean thousands of years.
That's exactly what 2 Peter 3:8 means. Peter was saying that it could be thousands of years before His coming for all anyone knew, but no one should think that He was being slow about coming if that were to happen because with the Lord a day is no different than a thousand years. And it has clearly not yet happened since the earth has obviously not been burned up yet.

2) Jesus Promises His thief in the night coming would befall actual first century peoples in Revelation 3:3
We've already been over this before. That verse is not about His future visible, bodily coming.

I addressed this earlier...
I know my life has an expiration date... I'll be lucky to live past 90
As I said back then you'd be lucky to live past 40..

I don't need the specter of a possible but not likely coming of Christ in my lifetime for any sort of motivation to live in a right relationship with God.
Do you?
I might be hit by a bus tomorrow.
So might you.
2 Peter 3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.

So, did Peter write 2 Peter 3:11 for nothing then? Using your logic there would be no reason for anyone at any time to heed Peter's words in that verse because back then someone could have potentially died at any time as well. Your perspective makes 2 Peter 3:11 completely pointless for anyone at any time, including the time when Peter wrote the letter.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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It wasn't believers who would ask "where is the promise of His coming", it's scoffers. You need to read the passage more carefully.

That's exactly what 2 Peter 3:8 means. Peter was saying that it could be thousands of years before His coming for all anyone knew, but no one should think that He was being slow about coming if that were to happen because with the Lord a day is no different than a thousand years. And it has clearly not yet happened since the earth has obviously not been burned up yet.

We've already been over this before. That verse is not about His future visible, bodily coming.

2 Peter 3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.

So, did Peter write 2 Peter 3:11 for nothing then? Using your logic there would be no reason for anyone at any time to heed Peter's words in that verse because back then someone could have potentially died at any time as well. Your perspective makes 2 Peter 3:11 completely pointless for anyone at any time, including the time when Peter wrote the letter.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Also all the Words of the NT are meant for all believers throughout all NT ages...
John 17:20-25:
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
 
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throughfiierytrial

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It wasn't believers who would ask "where is the promise of His coming", it's scoffers. You need to read the passage (2 Peter 3:3-4) more carefully.

That's exactly what 2 Peter 3:8 means. Peter was saying that it could be thousands of years before His coming for all anyone knew, but no one should think that He was being slow about coming if that were to happen because with the Lord a day is no different than a thousand years. And it has clearly not yet happened since the earth has obviously not been burned up yet.

We've already been over this before. That verse is not about His future visible, bodily coming.

2 Peter 3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.

So, did Peter write 2 Peter 3:11 for nothing then? Using your logic there would be no reason for anyone at any time to heed Peter's words in that verse because back then someone could have potentially died at any time as well. Your perspective makes 2 Peter 3:11 completely pointless for anyone at any time, including the time when Peter wrote the letter.
This message to you did not get posted...may be too long with your post being quoted...

In address to your post.

End times:

Matthew 24:29-35:

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory." 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.


Daniel 7:9-11:
9 “As I looked,
“thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
and the books were opened.
11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.


Daniel 8:23-26:
23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
26 “The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.”

Daniel 9:26:
The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.

Isaiah 34:2-4:
The Lord is angry with all nations;
his wrath is on all their armies.
He will totally destroy them,
he will give them over to slaughter.
3 Their slain will be thrown out,
their dead bodies will stink;
the mountains will be soaked with their blood.
4 All the stars in the sky will be dissolved
and the heavens rolled up like a scroll;
all the starry host will fall
like withered leaves from the vine,
like shriveled figs from the fig tree.

**goes on to give a depiction of heaven:
Desert creatures will meet with hyenas,
and wild goats will bleat to each other;
there the night creatures will also lie down
and find for themselves places of rest.
15 The owl will nest there and lay eggs,
she will hatch them, and care for her young
under the shadow of her wings;
there also the falcons will gather,
each with its mate.
16 Look in the scroll of the Lord and read:
None of these will be missing,
not one will lack her mate.
For it is his mouth that has given the order,
and his Spirit will gather them together.
17 He allots their portions;
his hand distributes them by measure.
They will possess it forever
and dwell there from generation to generation.



Joel 2:30-31
30 I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

**this is quoted in Acts 2:17-21


Finally, finally for Brevity, Revelation 6:12-17:
12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

***They agree…Much more can be said but it requires time and summarization for it to be clearly read and understood.
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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In ancient Greece, Homosexuality was not only tolerated, it was REQUIRED, whether you wanted to participate or not.
Homosexuality in ancient Greece - Wikipedia
Far less moral than today's views of mere acceptance..

Agreed - but at the rate we are going, we will be there soon ourselves. Have you seen the approval ratings of homosexuality in the USA over the last 30 years?
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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Agreed - but at the rate we are going, we will be there soon ourselves. Have you seen the approval ratings of homosexuality in the USA over the last 30 years?

gallup_poll_marriage-equality.png

American support for same-sex marriage never higher, Gallup survey shows | Boston Spirit Magazine

that was SIX years ago. You can probably assume the trends continued or steepened even more.
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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That never seems to come soon, and has left Billions of Christians drawing their final breath knowing their expectation failed to materialize.

Sad.
It is sad that you think the last breath is the end. The last breath is just the beginning.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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No one said when the Judgement Day was coming...no one knows...what we have been saying is that the signs are more pronounced and seems the end is very near.
As Spiritual Jew posted above...watch your life, as always and esp. now...II Peter 3:11-12: Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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The point ALSO is that we have no scriptural instruction to interpret that same language IN POLAR OPPOSITE FASHION, when it is used in theNT for the "end times" than for how it is used for ALL previous OT Judgment comings of Jehovah.

If there were, you could demonstrate it.

The challenge is actually for you to demonstrate where the bible teaches you to do so.

1 Corinthians 2:9-11
9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Acceptance of homosexuality is only one indication of the decline of our society or falling away.

With regards to falling away, my OP was addressing this happening in the Body of Christ, not the world, as it has not yet been redeemed from its fallen state. Those within the faith have not seen the acceptance of evil to this degree before. They punished evil by committing evil and not recognising it as such, but open acceptance of what God calls bad as though it is good? Not like we have rampant in the church today.

I love God's church, but we are being greatly deceived, and many are falling for it, calling sin good, and even seen as things Christ would have us do or be.
You are speaking here about ancient Greece, its society? We are speaking of within the churches...worldwide today...the Christian churches...I am certain those true to their faith did not acquiesce or participate in the REQUIRED practice of homosexuality even in ancient Greece which was probably pagan in nature anyway...remember Daniel???
I believe it was also the practice in ancient Greece to throw their live babies in what amounted to but human dumps...appalling to consider!

The whole context of falling away and growing cold as presented in Matt 24 is in the context of disciples. It wouldn't make any sense anyway to describe the world as falling away as they are already in a fallen state, with now the free opportunity of being redeemed extended to them through Christ these past 2000 years, whose love is not just cold, but warped and very superficial. The depths of real love is something we Christians barely can conceive of, and yet we know it is far more profound than anything we have to offer, even in our obedience to the process of being conformed to Christ's image, the image we were originally made in before the fall, through the power of the Holy Spirit at work in us.

The evil we have seen played out in church at large today is nothing like we have seen to date throughout its history. We accept evil and call it good, and everyone else who thinks different is a legalist. Where is the dividing line? We lose it when we fall away. The sad part is that many of those who are growing cold don't even realise it. I believe we aren't even at the climax of this. When the anti-Christ comes on the scene then we will really see the truth of this.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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With regards to falling away, my OP was addressing this happening in the Body of Christ, not the world, as it has not yet been redeemed from its fallen state. Those within the faith have not seen the acceptance of evil to this degree before. They punished evil by committing evil and not recognising it as such, but open acceptance of what God calls bad as though it is good? Not like we have rampant in the church today.

I love God's church, but we are being greatly deceived, and many are falling for it, calling sin good, and even seen as things Christ would have us do or be.


The whole context of falling away and growing cold as presented in Matt 24 is in the context of disciples. It wouldn't make any sense anyway to describe the world as falling away as they are already in a fallen state, with now the free opportunity of being redeemed extended to them through Christ these past 2000 years, whose love is not just cold, but warped and very superficial. The depths of real love is something we Christians barely can conceive of, and yet we know it is far more profound than anything we have to offer, even in our obedience to the process of being conformed to Christ's image, the image we were originally made in before the fall, through the power of the Holy Spirit at work in us.

The evil we have seen played out in church at large today is nothing like we have seen to date throughout its history. We accept evil and call it good, and everyone else who thinks different is a legalist. Where is the dividing line? We lose it when we fall away. The sad part is that many of those who are growing cold don't even realise it. I believe we aren't even at the climax of this. When the anti-Christ comes on the scene then we will really see the truth of this.
The falling away of the true body of believers is the topic of the OP and in my posts...guess they don't come across that way to you...believe if you look carefully I posted it to Parusa.
The fallen state of society...from moral to immorality...has an impact on the church. i.e. Bad company corrupts good character. (I Corinthians 15:33) and others such as ... Ephesians 4:17-32...Romans 1:18
Hopes this clarifies my understanding despite my sometimes awkward way of putting it in writing.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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The falling away of the true body of believers is the topic of the OP and in my posts...guess they don't come across that way to you...believe if you look carefully I posted it to Parusa.
The fallen state of society...from moral to immorality...has an impact on the church. i.e. Bad company corrupts good character. (I Corinthians 15:33) and others such as ... Ephesians 4:17-32...Romans 1:18
Hopes this clarifies my understanding despite my sometimes awkward way of putting it in writing.
I was only addressing the post I quoted. I did not mean to undermine it but to simply to clarify the OP. I apologise, I did not mean any offense.

I'm glad to see that we can agree on that point, as others seem to think the falling away is to do with the world at large and not exclusively concerning the Body of Christ.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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I was only addressing the post I quoted. I did not mean to undermine it but to simply to clarify the OP. I apologise, I did not mean any offense.

I'm glad to see that we can agree on that point, as others seem to think the falling away is to do with the world at large and not exclusively concerning the Body of Christ.
:)...thanks, I too am happy when any two or three agree on Truth.
 
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claninja

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That's exactly what 2 Peter 3:8 means. Peter was saying that it could be thousands of years before His coming for all anyone knew, but no one should think that He was being slow about coming if that were to happen because with the Lord a day is no different than a thousand years.

Doesn't 2 peter 3:8 say a day is like 1,000 years AND 1,000 years is like a day? IMHO, it seems this phrase is more related to God being outside of time, and not necessarily evidence for a delay in the parousia of thousands of years.

2 Peter 3:8 Dear friends, don’t overlook this one fact: With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, AND a thousand years like one day

Also, Peter said the end of all things was "at hand", so I don't think Peter also meant the parousia could be thousands of years away with the use of the phrase "a day is like 1,000 years and 1,000 years like day".

1 peter 4:7 The end of all things is at hand therefore, be alert and sober-mindedb for prayer.

And it has clearly not yet happened since the earth has obviously not been burned up yet.

The other side of the debate is what is meant by the heavens and elements being dissolved and the earth and works being not found.

2 peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the elements will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

If the heavens and earth are, in fact, to be understood as literal, then yes you are absolutely correct, they have not yet been destroyed.

If, however, they are to be understood as the temple and old covenant system, then they indeed did pass away.
 
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